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- Production Studio
-- Thomas Penton or Vengeance
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it looks like yousendit.com is down.

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Originally posted by dannib Yes they are very clear. Does anyone want me to upload any more? I have found loads more. Do you still think they ARE royalty free Subtle?

I wouldnt mind hearing some more. Its pretty funny actually. Has put me of buying a vengeance cd for now. Who thiks the vocal and fx cds are ripped of tracks?

yes it seems yousendit is down at the moment. It shouldn't be down for long. Check back in an hour or so.

quote:

Originally posted by dannib Yes they are very clear. Does anyone want me to upload any more? I have found loads more. Do you still think they ARE royalty free Subtle?

They are royalty free, because it says so on the package.
If some producer would ever sue me for using his samples which came from Vengeance, its Vengeance who gets it.

So just as Storyteller said, in a sense they are royalty free, and in a sense they are not.

Zero G also sampled the Amen break and claimed ownership of it.

I mean, who cares its just drums.. ripping a composition is something totally different.

Also, can you claim royalty for drums ? can you ?

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle They are royalty free, because it says so on the package. If some producer would ever sue me for using his samples which came from Vengeance, its Vengeance who gets it. So just as Storyteller said, in a sense they are royalty free, and in a sense they are not. Zero G also sampled the Amen break and claimed ownership of it. I mean, who cares its just drums.. ripping a composition is something totally different. Also, can you claim royalty for drums ? can you ?

actually if you know that they are sampled and you have used them, you can get sued too.

beside that, as an artist you should respect the intellectual property more.

I agree 100% with the wise man above!

i agree to a certain extent actually subtle. But as cyrus says, if you know they are ripped, its still illegal to use them. If you buy for example any stolen goods knowing they are illegal, you are also in the wrong.

They are not royalty free as such anyway. Vengeance may say this, but this would actually make the matter far worse if this was ever taken to court. It shows the company are not credible.

There is a difference between sampling the Amen loop once and sampling nearly a whole cds worth of material and passing it off as your own.

quote:

as an artist you should respect the intellectual property more

i completely 100% agree. I have completely lost my disrespect for Manuel Schleiss. As people know, getting a very good drum groove can take a lot of time and effort. Vengeance then come along, high-pass the kick drum and resell it as their own material. They have NO respect for peoples property and to top it off, are making lots of money of other peoples hard workings.

What is your opinion on vengeance ripping off royalty free sample cds like the ueberschall one shown earlier?

Just make your own sounds and loops.

ohh no i used a bleep sound, will deadmau5 sue me?

quote:

ohh no i used a bleep sound, will deadmau5 sue me

No.

Have you listened to the above examples?

quote:

Originally posted by dannib No. Have you listened to the above examples?

so you think its ok and honest to make money off other peoples music then?

dannib, thanks for posting the examples. Those are blatant rips. I may have to get onto the Vengeance sound forums and ask some questions, or send an email to Manuel.

Sampling is always a kind of grey area (if you make it totally unrecognisable and use it, who's going to know?) but this is, as you say, blatant. Passing these off as royalty free samples is illegal, the way I see it.

I`d be curious to see the response from Vengeance on this.

quote:

I`d be curious to see the response from Vengeance on this

Me too.

It is actually stated specifically on the clubsounds cds that none of the loops are ripped. Doesnt state the same thing for the house cds.

Personally if someone ripped sounds off of my cd to use in their tracks, I would feel honored and proud that someone liked what I did. Sampling is an art in itself and I say go for it. Only thing I think, is that if they are ripped and sold as sample cds. Then they should pay royalties. I mean if they ripped most of the sounds from others and are making a profit from something that is not theirs at all, thats wrong. But, I don't see nothing wrong with ripping a few sounds for a track. And well as for Vengeance, I guess they got their payback anyway, you know how many people pirate their cd's

Whatever though, in the end nothing even matters. Just make some tunes for people to enjoy and don't sweat the small things!

quote:

Originally posted by Frankh It is actually stated specifically on the clubsounds cds that none of the loops are ripped. Doesnt state the same thing for the house cds.

Interesting, caus one of the guys I know found a quite specific effect out of one of their tracks on one of those Clubsounds cd's. However, that's not a loop, is it

I've listed a couple of different sample cds for consideration.

http://www.sounds-of-revolution.com/

Sounds of Revolution appear to be selling this on the promise of kick free loops that have not been ripped.

http://www.synthation.net/

These guys are bit of a rip off however they also have two sample cds which have not received much attention (due to price?).


Would it be worth paying extra to get a sample cd that everyone hasn't already got

Well for what it's worth you changed my mind .

I just use my sample library which consists of hihats, kicks etc. that i made or found online. I think that for the most part i have the same quality samples as anyone else. But i guess it took me longer.

quote:

Originally posted by dannib The loops are terrible as well imo.

WHAT!!!

IMO the loops are terrible as i said. What don't you understand about that?

The original tracks they are ripped from sound good in context with the rest of the track. Vengeance has hi-passed mainly all the loops so they sound "fake" if you know what i mean. No body to the sound and some seem grainy as if ripped from an mp3.

In related news, I just thought I'd mention that Vengeance just released Essential Club Vol. 3, in case you haven't heard. And, FINALLY, they've made the CDs available for download! No more 3-week wait and crushed CDs arriving in the mail.

Back OT - I like the Vengeance one-shots (Club, House, Min.House, and FX) a lot. However, I rarely use the samples straight out of the box - I import them into Battery 3 and layer/tweak away. I rarely, if ever, use the loops and I wish they (and other sample distributors) would make the one-shots and loops available individually. When I do use a loop, I EQ/filter the crap out of it anyway to isolate one or two sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik And, FINALLY, they've made the CDs available for download! No more 3-week wait and crushed CDs arriving in the mail.

they do that because this way they can stop you from reselling. it's illegal to resell the downloaded sample cds now.

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus they do that because this way they can stop you from reselling. it's illegal to resell the downloaded sample cds now.

Ahhh...I see. Well, whatever the reason, I'm happy. I don't buy/sell pirated stuff anyway, so it works for me (I'm the impatient type).

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