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-- A list of "intelligent" EDM tracks
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quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated To elaborate on my earlier "complex vs intelligent" statement; to me, complexity is a lot of things happening at once, while "intelligence" in music deals more so with the interactions of the elements with one another and the coherency of the piece as a whole. Anyone can throw 10 layers on top of one another and be "complex", but to make the layers work together and evolve as one is what I define as intelligent production.

I don't think many people count "having lots of layers" as a definition of musical complexity. I certainly didn't. Arksun was saying in a thread the other day that modern trance can have in excess of 80 tracks on the sequencer simultaneously, but nobody except the fanboys would claim modern trance is complex.

By complex I was referring to the relative complexity of the composition of a piece in terms of music theory- its use of time signatures, harmonic development, counterpoint and so on. This seems a pretty solid definition, unlike the one you're putting forward for intelligence, which seems very subjective to me. I love progressive house from the 90s, but I don't think I'd call the stuff you're referring to particularly intelligent in any way. Your use of "coherency" is very vague.

Most dance music is incredibly simple in musical terms, even simpler than a lot of pop. For the most part, when it stops being simple it also stops being dancey, as with a lot of IDM. Some kinds of dance music are more complex than others, and certainly the production process for dance tracks can be more complicated than for almost any other kind of music -- but the end musical result is almost always very simple. Simple but effective, which is what makes it work on dance floors.

Robert Babicz - Dark Flower (Joris Voorn Magnolia Mix)
Mind X - Sensation Seekers (Martin Roth Nustyle Remix)
Undo - Paracaidas
Sebastien Leger & Chris Lake - Word/Ghost
Vibrasphere - Tierra Azul
Vibrasphere - Ensue�o

only couple of them I can think atm.

"Intelligent" can have many explanations.
Simple tracks which became big hits like "Speedy J - Pullover". Intelligent looking at the succes.
Also then tracks by Westbam, Marusha, BBE and so many others could be seen as intelligent. Even some hardcore tracks in that view maybe are.

Then you have complex tracks like have been mentionend above. In general I think most examples of intelligent tracks do have many layers or at least sound complex.

But next to that tracks can be intelligent simply because the sound beautiful. The intelligent than is more the choice and effort realizing this, like:

Traumatic - Tribal Symphony (especially > 5:28)


But on the other hand tracks like these also can be seen as intelligent:
Jones & Stephenson - The First Rebirth
Luxor - Superstitious
Lunatic Asylum - The Meltdown
Lazonby - Sacred Cycles

Personally I think most of the work of Jam&Spoon is intelligent and also if you listen to the God's Groove album.

And then you can think, maybe this is intelligent for being that stupid, that funny, that simple and had that much influence on the future:

Rotterdam Termination Source - Poing (1992)


I tend to compare it to paintings. Huge value and highly respected, but the artist was stoned or drunk most of the time, like the Dutch Herman Brood. Made 10 paintings in 5 minutes and even got paid for it.......

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't think many people count "having lots of layers" as a definition of musical complexity. I certainly didn't. Arksun was saying in a thread the other day that modern trance can have in excess of 80 tracks on the sequencer simultaneously, but nobody except the fanboys would claim modern trance is complex.

I wasn't talking about lots of layers within a sequencer, I was talking about multi-layered melodies that use three or four melodic lines running in tandem to, and opposing one another, which would fit with your definition of "harmonic development" and "counterpoint" below. As I also mentioned though, some of the most intelligent tracks are the simplest too, just like Einstein's "E=mc2" equation is.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J By complex I was referring to the relative complexity of the composition of a piece in terms of music theory- its use of time signatures, harmonic development, counterpoint and so on. This seems a pretty solid definition, unlike the one you're putting forward for intelligence, which seems very subjective to me. I love progressive house from the 90s, but I don't think I'd call the stuff you're referring to particularly intelligent in any way. Your use of "coherency" is very vague.

Yes, my definition is massively subjective, because the concept of intelligence is subjective too.

To elaborate on "coherency", I think an intelligent producer makes music with the same feel as a movie with a strong storyline, or a painter with a clear image of "the whole". From start to finish, the track has a clear idea of itself and none of the elements in the song are "fillers". Every sound has it's place and complements or opposes something else, creating a certain "linked" feel between everything where if you were to add or subtract any element, the song would essentially be ruined. The sense of complexity within the music theory also comes into play too, because this most often adds to the sense of commonality between all the elements if they are written with underlying musical similarities that aren't necessarily readily apparent (i.e same key, same note length).

It's the difference between someone throwing a load of paint on a canvas randomly or a true artist sitting down and thinking "I want to paint x & y subject" then painstakingly constructing a large-scale image.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated I wasn't talking about lots of layers within a sequencer, I was talking about multi-layered melodies that use three or four melodic lines running in tandem to, and opposing one another, which would fit with your definition of "harmonic development" and "counterpoint" below.

quote:

Anyone can throw 10 layers on top of one another and be "complex", but to make the layers work together and evolve as one is what I define as intelligent production.

Surely this is a contradiction in terms, as "making the layers work together" and "running in tandem to, and opposing one another" are synonymous?

People would possibly say something is "intelligent" in EDM when it probably uses unusual, prototypical, unique sounds and synths that actually work together and create some special atmosphere and "not-intelligent" as something that uses the formalaic, predicted, tried-and-tested (by mumbers) ideas with the only purpose being to make people dance.


Complexity may play a role but now that i think of it its not as important as i first thought. Most important are the combinations of ideas used. The same occurs in all art actually.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles when it stops being simple it also stops being dancey

counterexample; jazz

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN People would possibly say something is "intelligent" in EDM when it probably uses unusual, prototypical, unique sounds and synths that actually work together and create some special atmosphere and "not-intelligent" as something that uses the formalaic, predicted, tried-and-tested (by mumbers) ideas with the only purpose being to make people dance.

You mean "atypical".

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K counterexample; jazz

How is that a counterexample? The same principle applies within jazz: the form most popular for dancing (swing) is also the most musically simple.

Most people just don't like to dance to shifting time signatures or oddly phrased melodies.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You mean "atypical".

Yeah sorry lol. I was confused due to the fact that in greek you can also use it for "original" (in a unique way)

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles How is that a counterexample? The same principle applies within jazz: the form most popular for dancing (swing) is also the most musically simple. Most people just don't like to dance to shifting time signatures or oddly phrased melodies.

Well maybe it's just me then. Barring ballads of course, I find any jazz more dancable than most EDM, and I find that rythmic complexity augments that.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Complexity may play a role but now that i think of it its not as important as i first thought. Most important are the combinations of ideas used. The same occurs in all art actually.

So even the oldest hardcore, happy hardcore, german rave/techno tracks could be intelligent and at the moment these ideas are getting copied and sound much alike the 'originals', in genaral they cannot be seen as intelligent anymore. But new combinations or using new sounds can make a track intelligent again.
Other tracks are not using different sounds, but are intelligent because of a certain melody.

Yes, intelligent can be explained in many ways I guess.

Re: A list of "intelligent" EDM tracks

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Lawrence - Along the Wire (Superpitcher Remix) For some reason I'm picking another "surreal" type of tune, but I love the relentless melody and the eerie pads in the background that almost define the tune's "feel" more than the melody does. Even with that said, the melody is really dynamic and you couldn't repeat it in your head if you tried, which keeps it from ever getting 'boring' and 'predictable.' Just a fascinating tune in all regards and Superpitcher really "got it right" with this one.

Absolutely they did.

Digital Eyes:

Try to wrap your brain around the bongos in last 1/3 of this track.

Marko F�rstenberg - Site 312


They are never the same its really unbelievable.

Seems like more shit talking than people listing tracks. Everybody is on a debate team these days

1. Woob - 11:94 <-- The Best Ambient CD every made and if anyone wants to debate me on it. Try and buy a copy from CDNOW.com or eBay or Gemm.com I paid $150.00 for my copy and it was worth every penny. If something is considered by all global that this is the price standard give or take the condition of CD , etc..then how can everyone be wrong. lol

2. The Tear Garden - The Last Man To Fly CD - considered by me to be the newer age Dark Side Of The Moon. (Industrial/Ambient)

Now to "EDM"

3. Mind Markers (a.k.a Phynn) Static/Alive Again Vinyl both tracks awesome. (Progressive)

4. Menno de Jong (Guanxi (Original Mix) <--this will prolly fit in the catchy melody debate but I dig that song everytime I hear it.(TRANCE)

5. Dr. Kucho - Nosferatu (Tribal) It's the violins for me

6. In The Nursery - Duality CD (Ambient/Industrial)

that's all i can share now

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Most dance music is incredibly simple in musical terms, even simpler than a lot of pop. For the most part, when it stops being simple it also stops being dancey, as with a lot of IDM. Some kinds of dance music are more complex than others, and certainly the production process for dance tracks can be more complicated than for almost any other kind of music -- but the end musical result is almost always very simple.

+ 10^{10101010101010101010}

quote:

Originally posted by ModernNosferatu 1. Woob - 11:94 <-- The Best Ambient CD every made and if anyone wants to debate me on it. Try and buy a copy from CDNOW.com or eBay or Gemm.com I paid $150.00 for my copy and it was worth every penny. If something is considered by all global that this is the price standard give or take the condition of CD , etc..then how can everyone be wrong. lol

meh, it's good but not nearly as good as saw ii or thursday afternoon. the reason it snags 3-digit values has more to do with the label's demise and its status as a rarity than its overall quality. even their utter shit releases (e.g. this) have been seen going for extra bucks on ebay and the like before, so that really doesn't mean much. it is a fine release though.

quote:

Originally posted by Noisician + 1010101010101010101010 meh, it's good but not nearly as good as saw ii or thursday afternoon. the reason it snags 3-digit values has more to do with the label's demise and its status as a rarity than its overall quality. even their utter shit releases (e.g. this) have been seen going for extra bucks on ebay and the like before, so that really doesn't mean much. it is a fine release though.

Well I agree with the label demise as far as why the price is high EMT was great back then but it's just my opinion that it's the best Ambient CD every made. I love the odd samples and earth like tones. Some of it makes me feel like I'm at a bench in
Venus, Italy with streets full of water feeding pigeons

quote:

Originally posted by ModernNosferatu Well I agree with the label demise as far as why the price is high EMT was great back then but it's just my opinion that it's the best Ambient CD every made. I love the odd samples and earth like tones. Some of it makes me feel like I'm at a bench in Venus, Italy with streets full of water feeding pigeons

i am fond of it too (especially the "strange air"). it's such a shame his second offering is so much weaker in comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by Noisician i am fond of it too (especially the "strange air"). it's such a shame his second offering is so much weaker in comparison.

I enJoy but not too fond of 44:95

I like the voice samples on Odoona but Strange Air is great

quote:

Originally posted by ModernNosferatu I like the voice samples on Odoona but Strange Air is great

i see. well if you enjoy 1194 so much, you may also like busso de la lune's around borderline. they are very similar in mood.

some excerpts here:

http://www.requiem.serpent.pl/busso...borderline.html

quote:

Originally posted by Noisician i see. well if you enjoy 1194 so much, you may also like busso de la lune's around borderline. they are very similar in mood. some excerpts here: http://www.requiem.serpent.pl/busso...borderline.html

Right on man !! I need to check this out. Can you get their CD's online like eBay and such and of so are they exspensive as well?

quote:

Originally posted by ModernNosferatu Right on man !! I need to check this out. Can you get their CD's online like eBay and such and of so are they exspensive as well?

i got my copy at ear-rational.com for $16 (+ $2 shipping) some time ago. but they appear to be out of stock now:

http://www.ear-rational.com/index.p...usso+de+la+lune

i guess you could just buy an mp3 version... many sites seem to have it.

quote:

Originally posted by Noisician i got my copy at ear-rational.com for $16 (+ $2 shipping) some time ago. but they appear to be out of stock now: http://www.ear-rational.com/index.p...usso+de+la+lune i guess you could just buy an mp3 version... many sites seem to have it.

thanx for turning me on to another great group

You like Breakcore by any chance. I was turned on to Flashbulb - A Vancant Life. It's like Breakcore with guitars..truely a sound all of it's own. Also..I'd recommend In The Nursery - Duality CD

that CD is one of a kind. It's classical/Industral and all the songs are spoken word poems from John Donne and the famous Desiderata by Max Max Ehrmann. I made a myspace page with all the good songs from Duality since In The Nursery is going in a different direction. But that is what is so cool about In The Nursery...very do they keep the same style on each new CD they release. If you want I can give you the myspace link and you can hear the 6 best songs..you hve to wait awhile before the so cool spoken word poems kick in so give it a chance..write me back and I'll send you the link to the page.

-davE

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