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-- Ecstasy 'not worse than riding'
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quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit i would probably compare its addiction to that of cocaine. your mind will crave it to return to that mood again.

maybe when you first start coming down. But when i was coming down, and coming down hard, i had the thought, "im never rolling ever again" going through my head. It's nothing like cocaine m8...

so much better than cocaine.
why are you sugar coating???

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit really? tell it to the crack head that smashed up my pt cruiser. sure its not the healthiest thing.. but if you do it once in a while its effects are probably not much more negative then taking study drugs. (ritalin, dexidrine etc). you'll fry your neurons for sure if you do excess.. but once or twice a year is negligable

Are you trying to say that someone smashed up your PT cruiser to get at ecstasy pills that were inside?

a) You deserve it for driving a PT cruiser.

b) A "crack head" is someone addicted to crack, not ecstasy.

c) How do you know what they were after when they smashed it up?

d) Ecstasy is not physically addictive. Maybe mentally, but mental addiction is the same as any other kind of addiction; a weakness of the mind. A physical addiction is something completely different, when your body can no longer actually function properly without the drug. This is not the case with ecstasy. I could take it every day for a month, then never again, and I would still be able to function without it.

i thought addiction was a disease?

my point is that a mental addiction is just as serious as a physical addiction. There are such things as mental diseases you know (Schitzophrenia, alztimers *sp).

If you have a tendancy to be addicted to feelings or substances you can get hooked on something that can make you feel as good as extacy and cocaine. In the end you'll be messing up your neurotransmitter triggering if excess drug use is attained.

Again i go back by my statement and i can assure you that taking a couple of E pills in a year is probably not going to hurt you in the long run.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Ecstasy is not physically addictive.

What? Ecstasy is a meth-amphetamine derivative. It certainly is physically addictive, even in it's pure MDMA form (which isn't what most people are getting anyway).

When you reach the point you 'can't go out without it', you're toast.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk What? Ecstasy is a meth-amphetamine derivative. It certainly is physically addictive, even in it's pure MDMA form (which isn't what most people are getting anyway).

No it's not, heroin is physically addictive, meaning your body needs it after a certain period of overuse ( and when you quit you feel like shit).

E is not really psychologically addictive either, probably due to the comedown that one experiences right after. For certain people it's habit forming, they just like doing it a lot (but might not need to).

The problem with drugs like e is all the misinformation that is spread around.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit my point is that a mental addiction is just as serious as a physical addiction. There are such things as mental diseases you know (Schitzophrenia, alztimers *sp).

No, it's not. Being addicted to computer games or gambling is no where near as dangerous as being addicted to drugs or alcohol.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk What? Ecstasy is a meth-amphetamine derivative. It certainly is physically addictive.

The difference being that ecstasy does not directly act on dopamine, the neurotransmitter which controls rewards and addiction. Alcohol, cocaine and speed all act directly on dopamine.

Heroin is addictive in a worse way; it takes the place of endorphins in your body after prolonged usage. Endorphins are what transmit feelings of pleasure within the body. This takes you into a state of anhedonia where you�re in constant pain and may have seizures, migraines, vomiting and all those kinds of things.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated The difference being that ecstasy does not directly act on dopamine, the neurotransmitter which controls rewards and addiction. Alcohol, cocaine and speed all act directly on dopamine.

Interesting. Maybe I'm misinformed then. It's been quite a long time since I was a pill-head, so it's not something I've done a lot of reading on any time recently.

meh, no long term studies means no proof-

if you're relying on anecdotal evidence, then
1: is the earth really flat? that's amazing,
2: i know people who have been doing pills for fuckin yonks, and are far older, and far healthier than me

it's all about Discipline, as someone else said in this thread, no doubt drugs aren't Good for you, but essentially nothing is, otherwise we wouldn't die... at least a pill here and there will make you happy for a bit, r/t sitting at home in a smoke free environment munching on some celery until 6pm when you retire to bed to have your 8 1/2 hours sleep...

the media and gov.t (not to being a conspiracy theorist ) loves a scape-goat, as do we all, as paranoid, over-educated and terribly misunderstanding people, and to me that's what drugs are: something to pin anxieties and problems on... alcohol and tobacco are such huge parts of our society that even when we're told how bad they are for us nobody gives a fuck, yet something is illegal and is bad for us... NOOOOOOOOOOO...

the dangers of ecstasy especially (c/f the harder more scary drugs) are usually due to government control of the drug in 2 ways:
1: people get scared or do stupid things because they're uninformed etc
2: if it was legal the mix of the drug would be regulated and there would never be bad shit mixed with the mdma...

ahhh, tuesday boredom

the way i see it, the perspectives you gain and all the things you learn about yourself and others with (responsible) ecstasy use adds quite a bit to your quality of life overall... enough to outweigh the negative effects it's been accused of (the few that actually might be valid)

quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa the way i see it, the perspectives you gain and all the things you learn about yourself and others with (responsible) ecstasy use adds quite a bit to your quality of life overall... enough to outweigh the negative effects it's been accused of (the few that actually might be valid)

I'm fairly sure that most ecstasy users would agree with you. As an ex-user, I certainly do. It is, however, the over use that's the problem, and what most people here are discussing in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII meh, no long term studies means no proof- if you're relying on anecdotal evidence, then 1: is the earth really flat? that's amazing, 2: i know people who have been doing pills for fuckin yonks, and are far older, and far healthier than me

Anecdotal evidence implies personal experience, i.e sailing the whole way around the world and deducing that this means it's not flat, as opposed to just theorising.

I too know plenty of veteran pill heads who are outwardly healthy. Look at little closer and you might realise they're not as happy or confident as they seem, or that their memory and concentration aren't what they used to be.

Everyone is different - I agree with you that some people come out the other side of heavy ecstasy usage almost unscathed, but a far greater number are affected in such an insidious, subtle way that they rarely even notice themselves slipping and will happily tell people that their usage has had no ill effects.

A smaller percentage (standard bell curve thing going on here) will be affected quite substantially and find themselves anxious all day, unable to concentrate, and often depressed for no reason. They will no longer be as outgoing socially or as confident as they used to be. Their inner dialogue will increase to a roar every time they're alone.

quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa the way i see it, the perspectives you gain and all the things you learn about yourself and others with (responsible) ecstasy use adds quite a bit to your quality of life overall... enough to outweigh the negative effects it's been accused of (the few that actually might be valid)

I agree with that. Ecstasy allowed me to socialise a lot more effectively in my early years. The experiences I had while I was under the influence led to me implementing the same conversational strategies whilst sober and realising that everyone has got something to say for themselves if you can worm it out of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated I agree with that. Ecstasy allowed me to socialise a lot more effectively in my early years. The experiences I had while I was under the influence led to me implementing the same conversational strategies whilst sober and realising that everyone has got something to say for themselves if you can worm it out of them.

what are you, some kind of hippy? we both know people suck and most of the time what they have to say is fucking annoying, pointless or deserved of rape.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated A smaller percentage (standard bell curve thing going on here) will be affected quite substantially and find themselves anxious all day, unable to concentrate, and often depressed for no reason.

I was like that for a good six months after I stopped heavy use. Took a couple of years to fully sort itself out, though even now I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't occasionally more 'scattered' than I was when I was younger.

Just getting old? Maybe, or maybe not

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk I'm fairly sure that most ecstasy users would agree with you. As an ex-user, I certainly do. It is, however, the over use that's the problem, and what most people here are discussing in this thread.

i didnt learn a thing about myself from taking e other than i liked taking e.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i didnt learn a thing about myself from taking e other than i liked taking e.

Hence, I included the disclaimer "most" when referring to ecstasy users

I always thought you were special though.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what are you, some kind of hippy? we both know people suck and most of the time what they have to say is fucking annoying, pointless or deserved of rape.

Hey fuck nose, I never said that what they have to say is interesting, engaging or intelligent, only they had something!

XTC is teh bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk Hence, I included the disclaimer "most" when referring to ecstasy users I always thought you were special though.

haha. i bet the only thing e taught you was that you liked kissing men.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Hey fuck nose, I never said that what they have to say is interesting, engaging or intelligent, only they had something!

sorry, that's what i thought you meant! you should've said 'everyone has something shitty to say'

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha. i bet the only thing e taught you was that you liked kissing men.

You're confusing the terms "ecstasy" and "high school".

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha. i bet the only thing e taught you was that you liked kissing men

Stop projecting, PKC.

I did, however, learn to make MEGA GURN FACES. Only in the breakdowns though, obviously.

Edit: Lol, I gotta go find some of my old party pics and scan them. LMAO. Gurn baby gurn, disco-biscuit inferno.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Anecdotal evidence implies personal experience, i.e sailing the whole way around the world and deducing that this means it's not flat, as opposed to just theorising. I too know plenty of veteran pill heads who are outwardly healthy. Look at little closer and you might realise they're not as happy or confident as they seem, or that their memory and concentration aren't what they used to be. Everyone is different - I agree with you that some people come out the other side of heavy ecstasy usage almost unscathed, but a far greater number are affected in such an insidious, subtle way that they rarely even notice themselves slipping and will happily tell people that their usage has had no ill effects. A smaller percentage (standard bell curve thing going on here) will be affected quite substantially and find themselves anxious all day, unable to concentrate, and often depressed for no reason. They will no longer be as outgoing socially or as confident as they used to be. Their inner dialogue will increase to a roar every time they're alone.

so you pretty much just said it's entirely relative THEN put your opinion into the ring...

ALSO, are you talking about the come-down the day after, or Long-term consequences...???? where's your evidence dude? you're saying they're subtley being affected... according to whom!?!?! and there could be a million reasons why: fuck, it could even just be age taking it's toll (edit: as sushi said), or completely normal fatigue just from going out and dancing a lot and not sleeping heaps (not related to the drug itself kinda thing).

the variables for measuring effects of ecstasy are simply astronomical, i don't think it's safe to claim anything. it's probably not good for you, but neither is binge drinking (which is over 4 drinks or something tiny like that (a figure most of us would achieve after the first hour ))

where's your control group?
people who are always healthy and happy and never touch anything bad?

i don't really take pills that much, i just think it's pretty silly saying it's bad for you when
1: it hasn't even been around long enough for anyone to know the long-term effects, and
2: the drug itself changes with each batch doesn't it..??

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