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-- Fear of hell
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I was very religious at one point of time. Now I've almost completely stopped being religious. And I feel so much better about it. Funny thing is, I'm getting convinced that God does not exist, by reading parts of Hindu philosophy that declare the existance of an "ultimate reality" rather than a higher authority. I am convinced that this "Reality" is nothing but a very very generalized law of physics or the law that describes the theory of everything. Perhaps the ancient Hindu seers were able to understand the prime mover cause of this whole existance. They certainly claim to have done so.
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| Originally posted by Omega_M I was very religious at one point of time. Now I've almost completely stopped being religious. And I feel so much better about it. Funny thing is, I'm getting convinced that God does not exist, by reading parts of Hindu philosophy that declare the existance of an "ultimate reality" rather than a higher authority. I am convinced that this "Reality" is nothing but a very very generalized law of physics or the law that describes the theory of everything. Perhaps the ancient Hindu seers were able to understand the prime mover cause of this whole existance. They certainly claim to have done so. |
If all the the Christians are in heaven then I want to be in hell for sure.
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| Originally posted by Zild If all the the Christians are in heaven then I want to be in hell for sure. |
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Yeah, I have that thought occasionally. According to the fundie view of the world, all of the smartest and most interesting people I know of are headed straight for hell. |
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| Originally posted by Omega_M I was very religious at one point of time. Now I've almost completely stopped being religious. And I feel so much better about it. Funny thing is, I'm getting convinced that God does not exist, by reading parts of Hindu philosophy that declare the existance of an "ultimate reality" rather than a higher authority. I am convinced that this "Reality" is nothing but a very very generalized law of physics or the law that describes the theory of everything. Perhaps the ancient Hindu seers were able to understand the prime mover cause of this whole existance. They certainly claim to have done so. |
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| Originally posted by Alex Fuck the fundies One of them tried to tell me dinosaurs still exist and that they were chomping people down in the Old Testament And I'm a practicing Roman Catholic (not a fundie) |
iv been thinking about the same things for awhile now.
some questions cannot be answered.
thats just the way our life is...
im just going to enjoy my life as much as i can, you should too.
i just hope there is an after life so i could see the ones i love in this world
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| Originally posted by Lira No, no, no, they were vegetarians, remember? They can't nom people like that! God said something about animals not eating people, and those free hugging juggernauts only perished because they failed to sail along with Noah's pimped out boat. Conclusion: God hates fags AND dinos |
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| Originally posted by Alex She also claimed the dinos were on the boat. |
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| Originally posted by Alex P.S. Thanks for replying to my PM Lira, I appreciate it. |
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| Originally posted by rT19 iv been thinking about the same things for awhile now. |
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| Originally posted by Lira And they disappeared how? |
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| Originally posted by Aortik No, I don't think that you have. |
If anything would make me religious, that definitely wouldn't be fear of hell. Dunno. :[
Edit: Since it's your thread, what's hell? :]]
a) So glad I grew up in a country not founded by Puritans.
b) Religion is a form of blackmail (be good or you'll suffer!)
c) I've basically never believed in a god, despite a religious education from age 5 through to 18.
d) I don't believe in hell, so it doesn't worry me.
d) I'm not afraid of death. Really. It seems strange for someone my age, but I can honestly say I've accepted that my life will end and that there will be nothing left of me afterwards - just as well as a terminally ill patient or a 100 year old on their death bed. I don't believe in reincarnation or the afterlife.
e) Religion is a crutch for people who can't accept reality (i.e death). My firm belief is that it was originally formed to help people cope with things outside of their control (crops dying due to weather - oh noes, God is smiting us), and has since become entirely irrelevant as a result. It was also a way of helping people feel like they belong to something; the same way goths dress the way they do and people join sports clubs these days. Again, often the devices of weak people with no self-constitution or sense of their place in the world.
f) I respect religion's ideals of love, peace and living with good morals, however I don't think you need to attend church, have sacraments and observe religious holidays to live like this. In modern times, we should just be able to abide by this ourselves, knowing it's the right thing to do.
g) Too much of religion is outmoded. In 500BC, it made sense for Jews not to eat pork due to hygiene, but now it's just stupid.
Re: Fear of hell
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think the fear of hell was what really made me start taking religion seriously in the first place. Eighth grade was when it started to click for me, so I started going to church a lot more and reading the Bible. Then in high school I also developed a conviction that the survival of Christianity was vital to the preservation of Western culture. I stopped going to church in my freshman year of college. I was going out with a girl (still my girlfriend today) but I felt uncomfortable about dating her because she was a non-Christian. I think I can remember her asking me wonderingly why I was a Christian and not being able to give a very good answer, which bothered me. I can remember, at that time, sort of wishing that I wasn't a Christian, so that our belief systems would mesh together more neatly. Then I tried to look at the beliefs I had affirmed for years from the outside, to see how strong or weak they looked when I stepped beyond the assumptions that guided my religious views. I guess I was trying to deconstruct my faith, extirpate it from my mind. And I can remember a specific day, sitting on a bench in the sun and thinking about this, and feeling something inside myself sort of like what you might feel after a breakup, or when someone you really like rejects you. Maybe that was the point when I "lost faith." At night I would half-dream about being sent to hell for not believing, and in some of these twisted visions my girlfriend or parents would be there, too, being tortured alongside me. Eventually these thoughts stopped, but occasionally they still resurface. Fear excited over and over again can stay burned into your head even after you've concluded that it's irrational. Sometimes I find myself frightened by the possibility that maybe I'm really wrong not to believe in God and that when I die I'll be sent to hell and suffer eternally for being a non-believer. Maybe in spite of having thought pretty carefully about religion, I reached the wrong conclusions. Yeah, a lot of the ideas in religions don't make any sense to me, and the evidence in their favor really seems spare to non-existent, and it seems like most of the world's smartest people don't put much stock in the fire and brimstone stuff (even if some pretty smart ones are religious in other senses), but it seems like my ideas about what "makes sense" or what constitutes "good evidence" could be off-kilter in some way, and I could end up believing the wrong things because of that. And then I wonder whether I could ever genuinely worship a god who chose to deal out eternal pain to those who didn't believe in him, even if I were convinced there was good evidence for his existence. I'm leaning toward "no." I have been up all night. |
My fear of hell is ranked just bellow my fear of being eaten alive by ants at home, and just above my fear of koala bears.
If you think about heaven and hell for more than 5 seconds, logically, imo there is no way either of them can be real.
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| Originally posted by Lira Funny how this is bound to culture: I used to be afraid of reincarnation as a teenager. Despite my Christian upbringing, my family is deeply influenced by kardecism. It's a sect that originated in France and is quite popular where I live (most of my friends have either been kardecistss or have kardecism parents). It's a weird blending of Christianity, Darwinism, and Hinduism. According to kardecist thought, the afterlife is pretty much like ordinary life, but there are different levels and whatnot. And then, there's rebirth. You die, you go some place else where you're punished/praised/whatevered, and then you're back - either to planet Earth or to some other more/less advanced planet. And I grew up being told such was (after)life. It really bothered me. Was I stuck this stupid cycle of death and rebirth, earning mana and karma, with no memory card to save my progress so I could take a moral holiday!? When did I agree to take part in this messed up world? Why couldn't I just leave without being punished and then brought back? (being a Christian sect, suicide was frowned upon). This rebellion, so to speak, didn't last more than 6 months, though. Being in contact with orthodox Christianity and Buddhism, and always having had a thing for agnosticism/atheism (I was expelled from a Catholic Elementary school for being an heretic  ), I quickly threw the religious baby out and kept the moral bathwater.Now, don't you think your fear of hell is just as absurd as my fear of being reborn? The difference is just the social context you find yourself in  |
Re: Fear of hell
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think the fear of hell was what really made me start taking religion seriously in the first place. Eighth grade was when it started to click for me, so I started going to church a lot more and reading the Bible. Then in high school I also developed a conviction that the survival of Christianity was vital to the preservation of Western culture. I stopped going to church in my freshman year of college. I was going out with a girl (still my girlfriend today) but I felt uncomfortable about dating her because she was a non-Christian. I think I can remember her asking me wonderingly why I was a Christian and not being able to give a very good answer, which bothered me. I can remember, at that time, sort of wishing that I wasn't a Christian, so that our belief systems would mesh together more neatly. Then I tried to look at the beliefs I had affirmed for years from the outside, to see how strong or weak they looked when I stepped beyond the assumptions that guided my religious views. I guess I was trying to deconstruct my faith, extirpate it from my mind. And I can remember a specific day, sitting on a bench in the sun and thinking about this, and feeling something inside myself sort of like what you might feel after a breakup, or when someone you really like rejects you. Maybe that was the point when I "lost faith." At night I would half-dream about being sent to hell for not believing, and in some of these twisted visions my girlfriend or parents would be there, too, being tortured alongside me. Eventually these thoughts stopped, but occasionally they still resurface. Fear excited over and over again can stay burned into your head even after you've concluded that it's irrational. Sometimes I find myself frightened by the possibility that maybe I'm really wrong not to believe in God and that when I die I'll be sent to hell and suffer eternally for being a non-believer. Maybe in spite of having thought pretty carefully about religion, I reached the wrong conclusions. Yeah, a lot of the ideas in religions don't make any sense to me, and the evidence in their favor really seems spare to non-existent, and it seems like most of the world's smartest people don't put much stock in the fire and brimstone stuff (even if some pretty smart ones are religious in other senses), but it seems like my ideas about what "makes sense" or what constitutes "good evidence" could be off-kilter in some way, and I could end up believing the wrong things because of that. And then I wonder whether I could ever genuinely worship a god who chose to deal out eternal pain to those who didn't believe in him, even if I were convinced there was good evidence for his existence. I'm leaning toward "no." I have been up all night. |
Re: Re: Fear of hell
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| Originally posted by Moral Hazard Your fear and doubt seem to be born of an imperfect understanding of Christianity. First and foremost; the church (RC, which should be taken as the most authoritative voice on Christianity... of course I'm somewhat biased) does not and has never held the position that one must be a Christian (of any sect) in order to enter "the kingdom of heaven." You need not fear hell because you do not believe. Second; there is no physical hell (official church position); rather, hell is a state of anguish the soul experiences as a result of not receiving the love of God. Third; God does not choose to deal out eternal pain; rather, the individual chooses to suffer it themselves by rejecting God's love... God extends his love to all equally regardless of whether or not we believe we merit it. Finally, hell is not an eternal state, the suffering only lasts as long as one rejects love; however, given that the afterlife is not a physical place any discussion of time in regards to the afterlife is pure folly, as time only exists in a physical world. I suspect you received a particular bent of religious instruction as a child and require a fuller understanding... with that your fears would dissolve. |
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Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 25:46: " And these shall go away into everlasting punishment." Mark 9:43-48: "...it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" |
Assuming most people on here follow some form of Christianity, do you guys see it surviving until 2100?
I know some parts of America are very strong religiously, but here in Australia I see Christianity declining more and more every day. When I was a kid, mass would always be packed on the rare occasion that my family went. Now, it's always pretty empty.
I don't think know a single person under the age of 30 who has a firm belief and respect for God and Christianity, and I think that in another hundred or so years, religion will be almost dead.
Re: Fear of hell
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think the fear of hell was what really made me start taking religion seriously in the first place. Eighth grade was when it started to click for me, so I started going to church a lot more and reading the Bible. Then in high school I also developed a conviction that the survival of Christianity was vital to the preservation of Western culture. I stopped going to church in my freshman year of college. I was going out with a girl (still my girlfriend today) but I felt uncomfortable about dating her because she was a non-Christian. I think I can remember her asking me wonderingly why I was a Christian and not being able to give a very good answer, which bothered me. I can remember, at that time, sort of wishing that I wasn't a Christian, so that our belief systems would mesh together more neatly. Then I tried to look at the beliefs I had affirmed for years from the outside, to see how strong or weak they looked when I stepped beyond the assumptions that guided my religious views. I guess I was trying to deconstruct my faith, extirpate it from my mind. And I can remember a specific day, sitting on a bench in the sun and thinking about this, and feeling something inside myself sort of like what you might feel after a breakup, or when someone you really like rejects you. Maybe that was the point when I "lost faith." At night I would half-dream about being sent to hell for not believing, and in some of these twisted visions my girlfriend or parents would be there, too, being tortured alongside me. Eventually these thoughts stopped, but occasionally they still resurface. Fear excited over and over again can stay burned into your head even after you've concluded that it's irrational. Sometimes I find myself frightened by the possibility that maybe I'm really wrong not to believe in God and that when I die I'll be sent to hell and suffer eternally for being a non-believer. Maybe in spite of having thought pretty carefully about religion, I reached the wrong conclusions. Yeah, a lot of the ideas in religions don't make any sense to me, and the evidence in their favor really seems spare to non-existent, and it seems like most of the world's smartest people don't put much stock in the fire and brimstone stuff (even if some pretty smart ones are religious in other senses), but it seems like my ideas about what "makes sense" or what constitutes "good evidence" could be off-kilter in some way, and I could end up believing the wrong things because of that. And then I wonder whether I could ever genuinely worship a god who chose to deal out eternal pain to those who didn't believe in him, even if I were convinced there was good evidence for his existence. I'm leaning toward "no." I have been up all night. |
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| Originally posted by Domesticated I don't think know a single person under the age of 30 who has a firm belief and respect for God and Christianity, and I think that in another hundred or so years, religion will be almost dead. |
no way. religion (or at least a belief in god or the unknowable) will be around as long as we are. its hard-wired into our brain apparently (arbiter can teach you more about that).
A hundred years is a long time.
It's been about 130 since light bulbs were invented, and 150 since the combustion engine.
Think of how far we've come in that time. Planes, computers, spacecraft, medicine. Think of how differently people think now. Think of what the common man knows now compared to then.
People in 1850 still believed in witchcraft and alchemy. The human race travels extremely fast. I have no doubt that when people look back on the year 2000, they will see our religious beliefs in the same light that we see the foolish people who believed in witchcraft.
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no way. religion (or at least a belief in god or the unknowable) will be around as long as we are. its hard-wired into our brain apparently (arbiter can teach you more about that). |
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