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-- Music That Makes You Dumb?
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Originally posted by PETRAN Ermm yes, although that would make her a fairy and what is more new-age than a fairy?

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Originally posted by woscar Results are odd, and are obviously biased

There's not really any way this could be biased given how he did the chart. You guys should probably read how he did this. He went to Facebook and compared the top "favorite music" listings for each school with the average SAT score ranges of accepted students.

The reason why "techno" is on the chart as just a broad category is because that is what people are putting in their Facebook profiles. That also explains why "classical" and "Beethoven" show up separately on the chart.

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Originally posted by winston no robert henke, mogwai, autechre, BoC, aphex? what about steve reich, brian eno, kraftwerk, tangerine dream? Bibio.

SAT is not enough to measure the intelligence of the fans of those artists! You need a proper intelligence test like WAIS-IV or something




Its IDM afterall

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Originally posted by wotyzoid True, but are people really that oblivious to the more "underground" EDM most of us listen to?

i'm sick of radiohead

the shins? any fool with a pitchfork under his arm can come up with that band.

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Originally posted by wotyzoid True, but are people really that oblivious to the more "underground" EDM most of us listen to?

Dude, people don't know who Armin Van Buuren is wtf lol

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Originally posted by PETRAN Dude, people don't know who Armin Van Buuren is wtf lol

Blasphemy.

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Originally posted by nefardec the kind of 'intelligence' which a standardized test measures and the kind of 'intelligence' (in its most basic sense of understanding as the word literally implies) which is associated with music and other things that stir the spirit are not nearly the same thing.

in today's world it has been labeled as "E.Q". some labels are dumb.

On a serious note, maybe a higher IQ is a pre-requisite for some more "Elaborate" forms of music, that is, music that has a lot of changes etc. (i discussed about the "complexity" of music with nefardec and Noisician in a previous MD thread that i can't remember now ).




People who score high on IQ tests have usually very efficient cognitive abilities, that is, they would usually have a higher-than-normal working memory span, higher verbal and visuao-spatial processing etc.






Now, different forms of music would impose different demands on the cognitive system and it is logical to assume that more complicated music (as in music which is high on alterations/variation rather than number of instruments playing at the same time-although the number of instruments could also contribute to the demand a little) would require a higher-than-normal cognitive processing (since the complexity of auditory sequence would create a high cognitive load), with the amount of load directly related to the variation of the auditory/musical sequence. As a result, it could be true, that in order for one to listen to Beethoven (music which can get very varied/complex) one would need a more efficient cognitive system. As a result, these individuals would also tend to score highly in IQ tests.





Now this doesn't mean that higher intelligence means "i like classical" but that a person with high IQ scores would have "The mental basis" to enjoy those more elaborate forms of music. If they ever dig it in the first place...





Because i think that, for whatever-reason, the primary factor in enjoying/desliking everything is emotional experience. Now emotion and cognition are not independent of each other (emotions=sensations+cognitions, Singer and Schacter 2-factor theory of emotions etc.) but the type of cognitive processing used in forming the emotional experience is different and more simple than the one used in IQ tests. People feel emotions because they "interpret" the environmental stimuli (such as music) in all sorts of ways. And if DJ Sammy happens to be "interpreted" in a pleasurable way by a rocket-scientist so be it...and it can happen.

The reason I don't think that complex music necessarily requires more intelligence to appreciate is that you can like even very complex music for very simple and pedestrian reasons, e.g. "classical music relaxes me" or something like that.

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Originally posted by PETRAN http://www.rnid.org.uk/Content.aspx...933&ciid=197627

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 Sample of what you listen to?

click on ze image:

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Originally posted by flavdave There's not really any way this could be biased given how he did the chart. You guys should probably read how he did this. He went to Facebook and compared the top "favorite music" listings for each school with the average SAT score ranges of accepted students. The reason why "techno" is on the chart as just a broad category is because that is what people are putting in their Facebook profiles. That also explains why "classical" and "Beethoven" show up separately on the chart.

which raises another question which is: "do they have a right to collect data from private entities (to what extent)?" How protected is our information in this day and age?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The reason I don't think that complex music necessarily requires more intelligence to appreciate is that you can like even very complex music for very simple and pedestrian reasons, e.g. "classical music relaxes me" or something like that.

Yeah but those "simple" and "pedestrian" reasons that you say maybe arise from the fact that one doesn't have the necessary intelligence to fully appreciate it to the deeper level. As a result, this could make a "less cognitively capable" individual to appreciate it at a more superficial level-that is-"relaxing" or as a living-room filler.



I mean if one has the capacity to pay attention to the whole of a classical symphony, he/she would feel all sorts of things and probably at a very intense level IMO, he/she would go up, down, feel desperate, angry, ecstatic, hopeful, victorious etc. On the contrary, if one doesn't pay the larger-than-normal amounts of attention and doesn't remember the numerous changes (that contribute to the "deeper", more "adventurous" emotional journey)he/she would probably perceive a kind of "broader musical aesthetic" which could lead to a broader and less intense emotion such as "relaxed" or "joyful". Well at least this is my take on it



Ofcourse people of lower intelligence could still enjoy a classical tune in all its' glory. Its just that they would need to give more effort in comparison to the inherently more intelligent individuals, and if the required amounts are extremely high, the "pain/tiredness" of effort would mask the "pleasure" of the musical content. Still, (i guess that) if one really wants to (e.g. an individual could feel deep down that classical has a lot more to offer than relaxation, or maybe an individual who is of higher economic status could believe the norm/stereotype that suggests high socioeconomic status to be asociated with the enjoyment of more complicated forms of art etc.), he/she could "train" his brain/mind to anjoy it, although i don't know to what extend.


I guess that there must be some research in those areas although im personally not aware of it.

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Originally posted by winston which raises another question which is: "do they have a right to collect data from private entities (to what extent)?" How protected is our information in this day and age?

There is nothing private about the information he used.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN

I think I will have to mostly disagree with you. Certainly I agree that it takes more intelligence to understand more complex music, but the language of music is not that complex and I think is mostly hard-wired in our collective consciousness. Appreciating crescendos, trebles, basses, percussive noises, acceleration, deceleration etc is not the same as being able to define 'laconic' or 'umbrageous'..

but a word on that collective consciousness. i am one of thee types who believes in a universal collective consciousness, call it what you will 'zeitgeist', 'superego', 'overmind', etc

however, I think that while music takes many cues from this, it also is very influenced by cultural 'local consciousness'. In other words, certain music is just not people's 'scenes' for whatever reason - geographic seclusion, economic division, cultural taboo, etc. It's not that one is less intelligent, it's that there are certain linguistic 'shibboleths' germane to certain forms of music that tend to stratify listeners based on all manner of cultural divisions.

It's not that one doesn't have the intelligence to understand music, it's that one just may not speak its language well enough. However, like I said there are certain 'gestures' in music that supercede any linguistic specificity and stir the spirits of any human listener.

There is a difference between 'hearing' and 'listening', which I will define as 'beholding' or 'understanding'. The senses are abstractions of the musical reality, which affects all of our senses, even those which we don't have a name for. Beholding music creates mental images in the brain (as opposed to simply acknowledging the presence of sound)- not necessarily visual, but a deep resonance which is felt, heard, seen, tasted, smelled, etc, the ripples and reverberations of which lap at the shores of memory.

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