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-- creationism making a comeback in texas
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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, i hope your faith serves you well. i shall try and protect you when the atheist revolution comes and we're putting your kind up against the wall

Didn't Stalin already try that?

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Didn't Stalin already try that?

try? succeeded he did!

nice Christopher Hitchens article about the Texas school board issue in Newsweek today:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/191400

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Originally posted by The17sss nice Christopher Hitchens article about the Texas school board issue in Newsweek today: http://www.newsweek.com/id/191400

I love Hitchens. Only compelling atheist left.

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Originally posted by Alex I love Hitchens. Only compelling atheist left.

He's fun to watch. Did you ever see his debate with Dinesh D'Souza? Good stuff

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Originally posted by The17sss He's fun to watch. Did you ever see his debate with Dinesh D'Souza? Good stuff

Yes. Dinesh is ok, but I actually liked Hitchens better in the debates.

I believe Hitchens is going to debate William Lane Craig soon, April 4th or something. William Lane Craig is one of the better Christian debaters on the circuit right now, should be fun to watch.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Yes. Dinesh is ok, but I actually liked Hitchens better in the debates. I believe Hitchens recently debated William Lane Craig, one of the best Christian debaters alive today. I really want to find out what happened.

sounds interesting. I definitely want to see that. I'll try to track it down and get back to you if I find a link

I edited my post.

The debate is set for april 4th.

Hopefully we get a transcript or someone records the damn thing. The topic is loaded in Craig's favor though, "Does God Exist". Hitchens usually prefers to debate issues such as religious integrity and the integrity of such a God that would be the God of Christians/Jews/Muslims.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I edited my post. The debate is set for april 4th. Hopefully we get a transcript or someone records the damn thing. The topic is loaded in Craig's favor though, "Does God Exist". Hitchens usually prefers to debate issues such as religious integrity and the integrity of such a God that would be the God of Christians/Jews/Muslims.

Ahhh. no wonder I couldn't find it. I wonder how Hitchens will react with the topic deck stacked against him. I'll have my popcorn ready.

Well Hitchens will simply have to change the topic. His rhetoric is great, and he's likeable because of how funny he is, but Craig is just an awesome debater.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I don't know. I used to be an Atheist and then for whatever reason I changed and became a Theist. I cant explain why, if anyone could offer a rational explanation (by rational I mean non personal experience, and based on empirical evidence) everyone would be theists.

I'm surprised just because you have a 'personal god' which you're not defining withing any denomination, you defend alternatives to evolution being taught in schools. Banal coincidence interpreted as divine mediation on your part does not warrant the indoctrination of children with improbable and unprovable heresay alternatives to a globally accepted scientific theory with mounds of evidence to back it up. The Texas school board is the laughing stock of the secular world.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Ditto for me. Belief isn't supposed to be perfect - it's why in Islam the cornerstone of faith is jihad, or "struggle".

How embarrassing I thought it was public stonings.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex My priest told me once that a good Christian doubts, and I've held to that ever since.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


you're fucked

i saw pascals wager was brought up, PKC touched on the points of feigning beleif and piety, here is a great hitchens clip(volume is low)

quote:

Originally posted by D-res I'm surprised just because you have a 'personal god' which you're not defining withing any denomination, you defend alternatives to evolution being taught in schools. Banal coincidence interpreted as divine mediation on your part does not warrant the indoctrination of children with improbable and unprovable heresay alternatives to a globally accepted scientific theory with mounds of evidence to back it up. The Texas school board is the laughing stock of the secular world. How embarrassing I thought it was public stonings. Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. you're fucked

Oh my, you haven't read much of the thread have you?

Also, your use of google to try and "own" me with a Bible passage is humorous in nature as you picked a passage that is completely out of context for what I was talking about.

Doubt doesn't mean doubting the existence of God, I don't doubt that, I do doubt some of the other things though that I think merit doubt. Paul does not say that doubting Protestantism is wrong nor does he say doubting false doctrine masqueraded as truth is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN but how do you go about making yourself believe something?

You can't, only an individual can make themselves believe (anything).

I have a similar story to Alex... I was agnostic, raised in no particular religion, and actually had a strong hatred for organized religion (Roman Catholic in particular). My journey to faith was actually born from a decade long quest on my part which started as an attempt to satisfy myself that there was indeed no god(s). Strangely, the more I learned about the great faiths and other non-theistic philosophies the more similarities I found between them all and the more truth I found in those things that were consistent across them, which ultimately resulted in a rather deep and profound faith. That said, I still continue to actively challenge my faith.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex My priest told me once that a good Christian doubts, and I've held to that ever since.

A rabbi I spent considerable time with many years ago wonce said something similar to me... "faith is like principles; it doesn't mean anything if it isn't challenged."

Getting back to the original topic.... I really do believe that every topic taught in school should be open to scrutiny (although I expect that the scrutiny on evolution would be very very thin); however, there is absolutely no circumstance I can see that would ever make it acceptable to even discuss creationism or intelligent design (fuckin' joke that it is) in a science class.

quote:

Originally posted by D-res I'm surprised just because you have a 'personal god' which you're not defining withing any denomination, you defend alternatives to evolution being taught in schools. Banal coincidence interpreted as divine mediation on your part does not warrant the indoctrination of children with improbable and unprovable heresay alternatives to a globally accepted scientific theory with mounds of evidence to back it up. The Texas school board is the laughing stock of the secular world.

I thought we were all in agreement on that. The argument started when you and Cap tried to paint all Christiandom as out of touch with reality and akin to the Texas creationists.

quote:

How embarrassing I thought it was public stonings.

"He said jihad! Time for an intolerant Islam joke!"

quote:

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

That quote is about doubting God himself, not doubting the individual components of Biblical stories (as is discussed in this thread).

Well hasn't this just turned into a gigantic Jesus circle-jerk?

What a fucking waste.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well hasn't this just turned into a gigantic Jesus circle-jerk? What a fucking waste.

Hey, I tried to bring it back.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov That quote is about doubting God himself, not doubting the individual components of Biblical stories (as is discussed in this thread).

But the Bible is the WORD of God is it not?

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Originally posted by Capitalizt But the Bible is the WORD of God is it not?

Some of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt But the Bible is the WORD of God is it not?

Odd, I cannot think of a single book of the Bible which is attributed directly to God.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Odd, I cannot think of a single book of the Bible which is attributed directly to God.

Well God never wrote any of it obviously, but during mass we do say "The word of the Lord".

Still, that's more out of tradition than anything, and I think most people realize that it was people writing the stories down not God whispering them into peoples' ears or physically writing any of it himself.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Still, that's more out of tradition than anything, and I think most people realize that it was people writing the stories down not God whispering them into peoples' ears

You're making progress Alex.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt You're making progress Alex.

How is that progress? That's what I've always known.

It doesn't mean that God never said those things to Moses, nor does it mean God never revealed himself to countless other prophets. It also doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't God etc.

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