All I know about religion is that I tried very hard at it for about 10 years. I went to church weekly with my family, I participated in a lot of youth stuff and made a lot of friends through it, but I just couldn't ever "get it".
I wanted to believe, I wanted to feel what all these people seemed (or claimed) to be feeling, but it never came. There was never some moment where I felt saved or that my life had been changed, nothing. My family eventually stopped going to church as the one we went to was bought by an office supplies company, and since then I've just progressively begun to realize that I just simply cannot buy into that type of stuff.
I'm not an atheist, and neither am I a believer, so I shall remain in the blurry "in-between" for now.
Posted by gehzumteufel on Apr-12-2009 19:21:
Where'd chachiii go?
Posted by Ania_xox on Apr-12-2009 19:24:
Oh yes. What a plague on society for someone to use something they can't see as a means through which to cope with the death of someone they love. How horrible it is that such a process of thinking helps one to get over things and move on with their life.
Posted by Halcyon+On+On on Apr-12-2009 20:07:
This is about religion; not Kleenex.
Posted by stren on Apr-12-2009 20:31:
Posted by nefardec on Apr-12-2009 22:31:
quote:
Originally posted by enydo
I wanted to believe, I wanted to feel what all these people seemed (or claimed) to be feeling, but it never came. There was never some moment where I felt saved or that my life had been changed, nothing.
guess what, it never will..
the only one who can save you is yourself. stop looking for god in everything and look in yourself.
that is the ultimate message of most religions, but unfortunately this gets covered up by all of the other political and social aspects. anyone who is truly religious understands this on an intimate level. the others are just as clueless as you were and they form groups so that they don't feel so stupid and worthless.
basically the way I think about it is like this. someone said earlier that religion is a 'fixed fantasy'. i say, 'reality' is a fixed fantasy. anything we call reality is a temporary fantasy, the product of momentary consciousness. the human mind seems hard-wired to create these singular fantasies, without them it would go crazy. (literally) I believe there are infinite realities and that it is possible to traverse them. (read jorge luis borges' 'garden of forking paths') However, most people do not want to deal with the indecision and fear that results from the sheer multitude of possibilities, realities that is the universe.
the idea of infinity and the unknown is like the ultimate fear.
it's as if everyone cowers on his own ledge on a cliff that is infinitely tall, falling into an infinite abyss. everyone clings desperately to his ledge lest they fall into eternity, clings to that little oasis/mirage which he names 'reality', because they can't comprehend or if even begin to deal with the vast abysmal expanse of nothing that is everything, the speck that they represent in the wholeness of creation. (not making a comment on who/what the creator is, just that there must have been some creation)
believing something is real sublimates the ethereal nature of matter. matter is spirit beheld through the lens of consciousness.
also i just wanted to say that the prehistory of religion is a very interesting thing to get into. one of the theories of early religion is that it evolved (lol irony) in humans from earlier primates along with an increased emotional capacity. religion developed first in places like the russian steppes and deserts of the world, during and after the ice age. humans were relatively weak animals, scavengers on the earth, they could only really eat nuts and berries by themselves. daily subsistence was a challenge. humans coped with the harshness of existence by bonding with one another, helping one another out - this over time resulted in a species of man with increased emotional capacities. those who could bind together tightly were more likely to survive. early religion, cults, sacred oaths, secret societies, etc essentially evolved out of the necessity for survival. as man began to master his environment then and settle down, the nature of these emotional bonds became based on the retention of power and control, beginning with chief-based tribal societies, gift-giving, etc to where we are now...
Posted by enydo on Apr-13-2009 01:58:
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
guess what, it never will..
the only one who can save you is yourself. stop looking for god in everything and look in yourself.
I guess I wasn't clear, this is actually how I feel about things at this point.
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
that is the ultimate message of most religions, but unfortunately this gets covered up by all of the other political and social aspects. anyone who is truly religious understands this on an intimate level. the others are just as clueless as you were and they form groups so that they don't feel so stupid and worthless.
Ugh... ok whatever makes you happy man. You are probably one of the most condescending people (online) I have ever seen.
Posted by LoveStoned on Apr-13-2009 02:58:
Happy Resurrection Day Guys!!
Posted by pkcRAISTLIN on Apr-13-2009 03:02:
quote:
Originally posted by Ania_xox
Oh yes. What a plague on society for someone to use something they can't see as a means through which to cope with the death of someone they love. How horrible it is that such a process of thinking helps one to get over things and move on with their life.
its not horrible, just pathetic.
Posted by Ted Promo on Apr-13-2009 03:04:
quote:
Originally posted by LoveStoned
Happy Resurrection Day Guys!!
Haha, your resurrection is a collage and therefore completely metaphorical meaning Christ is still dead trolltrolltroll
Posted by DaRoZa on Apr-13-2009 03:08:
did you hear the good news?
Posted by DaRoZa on Apr-13-2009 03:09:
he is risen
Posted by Joss Weatherby on Apr-13-2009 04:32:
quote:
Originally posted by DaRoZa
he is risen
duke duke duke of earl, duke of earl!
Posted by wing on Apr-13-2009 04:38:
where the fuck is the music coming from
id plz
Posted by Joss Weatherby on Apr-13-2009 04:42:
quote:
Originally posted by hundred
where the fuck is the music coming from
id plz
god.
Posted by SuspicionVandit on Apr-13-2009 05:04:
quote:
Originally posted by LoveStoned
Happy Resurrection Day Guys!!
I was wondering what Bob Marley had to do with Jesus Christ.....
Posted by wing on Apr-13-2009 07:55:
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
god.
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE MUSIC COMING FROM
Posted by chach on Apr-13-2009 15:55:
quote:
Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Where'd chachiii go?
church
Posted by nefardec on Apr-13-2009 16:07:
quote:
Originally posted by enydo
I guess I wasn't clear, this is actually how I feel about things at this point.
Ugh... ok whatever makes you happy man. You are probably one of the most condescending people (online) I have ever seen.
maybe it sounds condescending, but i think the main reason people form groups (even tranceaddict) is so that they don't feel insecure, alone, stupid, or worthless. everyone is looking for affirmation to prevent the fragile bubble that they call reality from popping.
i'd call it 'cynical', not 'condescending'. i'm really not trying to belittle anyone personally, and i include myself in any descriptions.
for it to be condescending you'd have to see that as a bad thing in itself. i don't see the need for affirmation as a bad thing necessarily, just a human thing.
but thanks for the kind words. lol
Posted by enydo on Apr-13-2009 17:06:
Well yeah, I was just irritated at the time of posting.
I agree, it's a completely human need, one in which we all participate and for good reason. It helps society as a whole and encourages growth and community. I'm just not keen on organized religion. I think it's corrupt and has lost all of the values it was originally developed to instill. I saw all this while growing up in a church, and the only reason I got a little upset was the fact that my parents still go and they are genuinely nice people. They may not be very hip, but they go to give themselves a sense of community I think, I just don't need it like they do.
The internet is a funny place, I know how it feels to be misunderstood.
Posted by nefardec on Apr-13-2009 17:42:
quote:
Originally posted by enydo
Well yeah, I was just irritated at the time of posting.
I agree, it's a completely human need, one in which we all participate and for good reason. It helps society as a whole and encourages growth and community. I'm just not keen on organized religion. I think it's corrupt and has lost all of the values it was originally developed to instill. I saw all this while growing up in a church, and the only reason I got a little upset was the fact that my parents still go and they are genuinely nice people. They may not be very hip, but they go to give themselves a sense of community I think, I just don't need it like they do.
The internet is a funny place, I know how it feels to be misunderstood.
see the problem is, as other people point out, not organized religion, but people who adopt it who don't think for themselves or don't have a personal spiritual life. organized religion is supposed to help you to do this - i feel with the right mentors it can and does.
organized ANYTHING is a problem when people do not think for themselves and try to evangelize others who do not think for themselves.
also anytime it is used as for political domination (eg spanish jews who had to convert to islam officially during the moorish conquest)
my family are extremely zealous catholics from sicily. they have a patron saint (san biagio) from the town they grew up in. i have many cherished memories of traditions associated with their catholic faith. my parents go to church every sunday, my grandparents go three times a week. i can't speak for everyone obviously, but i talk to my parents about their faith and I know for them church functions as the supporting axis in their reality bubble. it brings them comfort, it is perhaps more real to them than anything else. these are the ties that bind my family and their community, and I would never wish for those to be taken away. For me it only becomes a problem when it discourages others following their own hearts and minds.
unfortunately, i think for many people membership of a parish is no different than membership to a country club. except it's like a country club where if you pay your dues you end up owning the place for eternity.
Posted by enydo on Apr-13-2009 18:13:
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
unfortunately, i think for many people membership of a parish is no different than membership to a country club. except it's like a country club where if you pay your dues you end up owning the place for eternity.
Haha, yeah exactly. I always saw it as these people were more there for the social aspects of a church than for their own spiritual needs.
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