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-- What kind of performance boost can I expect with this upgrade?
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quote:

Originally posted by RichieV I think it is hard to understand because you aren't familiar with certain genres of music that , when done on a computer, require enormous amounts of ram. Again , you are right , i don't need it. I could just bounce but it is about workflow. Time is money . And 700$ is just not alot of money for all the time it saves.

I know one of the big composers Zimmer or something, has a room stacked with computers to be able to run his shit.

I don't know. Ive done an orchestral piece [nothing ground breaking] and I didn't get anywhere near 20GB.

Sorry RichieV, but your going to have to show me some songs :P 20GB of ram better sound fucking awesome :P Or i'm going to call you fail :P I better orgasm 12 times. Or Yeah, you fail :P

All I can think is the samples are an insanely high bit rate and thus high size. Or your layering millions of sounds or something. 20GB of Ram you could load Crysis 8 times [the whole .exe and all .dlls and content] and play all of them at once and they would still give 60fps.

Chrono - you have no idea what you;re talking about.

20gigs can be quite common place for even small film scoring/orchestral projects. I can name three close friends who all have far larger systems than that at home to work on small scoring projects, let alone in their studios. Fuck, their assistants have bigger systems than that.

I'm a score engineer and we run several fully maxed out PTHD rigs for a single mix session, let alone what the composers use with their full libraries.

8/16 gigs is basically starting point, but they don't do it in one computer - most of them run secondary arrays (of giga's for each string section (etc.)) and some (the big composers) have networked arrays of custom built server grade PC's just providing samples for composition. You have to realise that sample libraries are huge and to have them all ready to play takes an incredible amount of RAM - they can't be HD based like games are because of the lag.

You also keep referencing games in several threads - sorry, but it's not the same thing as audio - graphics reliant benchmarks have no gravity or use to compare to audio. Yes, they both require CPU in it's most general/basic form, but work in very different ways and depending on how you graphics processor works, not mention the rest of your system (including the differences of audio drivers etc.), cpu load varies incredibly between the two forms of processing. As above, you don't have every possibility of every move in a game loaded in to ram just so you can play it.

By the way richie; nice samples - those are the good ones......

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir I don't know. Ive done an orchestral piece [nothing ground breaking] and I didn't get anywhere near 20GB. Sorry RichieV, but your going to have to show me some songs :P 20GB of ram better sound fucking awesome :P Or i'm going to call you fail :P I better orgasm 12 times. Or Yeah, you fail :P All I can think is the samples are an insanely high bit rate and thus high size. Or your layering millions of sounds or something. 20GB of Ram you could load Crysis 8 times [the whole .exe and all .dlls and content] and play all of them at once and they would still give 60fps.

the reason for such size involve the static nature of the librairies. To make something sound realistic, you have to continually switch articulations. Now you could just bounce everything or actually load all the articulations used and just map the midi triggering.Imagine this done for each section of an orchestra and you will start to realise why it takes so much ram.

This is one issue. The other issue is that the librairies don't particularly sound that well so you constantly have to blend different librairies together to get a sound that is realistic. Imagine it was like creating a kick from different kicks to get the one that sounds just right. Now imagine that on a scale that is exponantially bigger.

I am surprised that someone with such strong opinions, something i would attribute to confidence and experience and inevitably a professional, would have such a hard time understanding the need for such specs especially considering how normative they are. I am pretty sure 16 gigs of ram is the entry level norm for people that do orchestral mock ups.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Chrono - you have no idea what you;re talking about.

It's almost as though every post you make, Chrono, is designed to contain information which is wrong and subject to being torn asunder on a multitude of levels.

i have no idea why he keeps bringing up video game references.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV i have no idea why he keeps bringing up video game references.

I'm hazarding a guess on his reasoning - that already seems thoroughly debunked - and that is because he's been shopping for computers and, when you're looking for top of the line, inevitably a great deal of marketing I've run across, on-line, is targeted towards computers specifically built for video games.

Many of them tout processor over-clocking capability as a selling point with the same concepts of performance enhancements in video games being reasoned, by cronodevir, as applicable to DAWs. Perhaps he is also a video game enthusiast which, applying such logic, kind of kills two birds with one stone.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker It's almost as though every post you make, Chrono, is designed to contain information which is wrong and subject to being torn asunder on a multitude of levels.

Not only that, but it always comes across as juvenile bragging. Not even the kind of arrogant boasting you hear from some people about how they drive a fancy sports car or travel all around the world, but the idiotic obviously-phoney "my dad could beat up your dad" or "I fucked 36 hot babes last week".

Honestly, buddy thinks he can recreate any sound in 3xOsc? Riiiight. What about sounds with more than 3 oscillators?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Honestly, buddy thinks he can recreate any sound in 3xOsc? Riiiight. What about sounds with more than 3 oscillators?

As long as he layers multiple instantiations, pretty soon he'll be able to replicate the London Phil Harmonic, recorded in the Boston Symphony Orchestra's Symphony Hall, using nothing but Stradivarius violins with only 1GB of RAM and an over-clocked Pentium II.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker As long as he layers multiple instantiations, pretty soon he'll be able to replicate the London Phil Harmonic, recorded in the Boston Symphony Orchestra's Symphony Hall, using nothing but Stradivarius violins with only 1GB of RAM and an over-clocked Pentium II.

Pansy. I can do it on a 486 running Windows 3.1 by drawing the waveform in Microsoft Paint and saving it as a .wav file. The whole process takes 12 minutes for every millisecond of audio but who cares about latency anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Pansy. I can do it on a 486 running Windows 3.1 by drawing the waveform in Microsoft Paint and saving it as a .wav file. The whole process takes 12 minutes for every millisecond of audio but who cares about latency anyway?

Candyass!

Using a tape cassette drive and a Franklin Ace 1000 with 16kb of RAM, I wrote a program in Pascal which synthesized a monophonic sine-wave that replicated the soundtrack for Clockwork Orange over a period of six months.




It took 4,000 dollars of home-made methamphetamine, five years and four teeth along with six septic abscesses that required hospitalization after a catastrophic accident as the tape splicer I was using became involved in a rather humiliating psychotic episode. Six months later, when the song was finally rendered, I was sued for copyright infringement when I tried to sell the replicated sound-track, and it was confiscated, never to be heard, again.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Pansy. I can do it on a 486 running Windows 3.1 by drawing the waveform in Microsoft Paint and saving it as a .wav file. The whole process takes 12 minutes for every millisecond of audio but who cares about latency anyway?

I also work like that, and when i buy a new computer im going to use the same latency.

Um DJ RANN...What the fuck are you talking about? You didn't even negate any point I mentioned. You just added to what I said then threw in a few bits about me being wrong. Who the fuck cares that you work with a big system? And what does it matter? Your whole posting here is just completely random. You shed no light on the subject what so ever. You just come in, see me, and throw up random information and some how you think in your mind "Yeah, I fucken defeated cronodevir, I'm hot shit :P" Your quiet pathetic. You have no substantial music to account for all this high and mighty knowledge you claim to have. You boast about what you know, try to make it look like your correcting me so that your friends here will like you more. Mean while shits like testio and armin shit all over your theories and make money doing so. And you, unfortunately never will, because any album you ever put out I will torrent. Though nothing you make will ever be worth doing it. Now with everything you posted, either prove what statements of mine you have proven wrong..or shut the fuck up because I get tired of seeing you. Can you even do that?

I mentioned video games because that's generally how a machine is benchmarked. Audio doesn't even use a video card, so doing audio is not the best way to benchmark a whole PC. Though I am sure one of you dumbfucks will come around and try to say otherwise. *sigh*

Diginut, As mentioned before your not even an artist. Lets see you create anything in 3osc. You know you all talk a lot of shit, but not one of you has even produce a piece of music worth listening to. So that begs the question, do you just sit around reading music mags and watching youtube videos on production. Then come into a forum and try to miss correct everyone?

I mean really, no one on this forum even has the ability to understand logical fallacy and debate properly. Its like talking to a bunch of leymen who read popular mechanics and now they think they know how the world works. Really, I think ive gone a step too far. Diginut is the only one here who actually has any sense. When he posts his posts show signs of intellect. What DJ RANN just posted, was completely fucking random and out of the blue. He didn't object to anything I said in his post. Yet he didn't agree with anything I said either, but apparently he has a "point" in a "debate" and I am somehow wrong because of it.

Who is bragging? You think that someone with basic skills you don't have is bragging? Come on, like in that video thread, where the kid is doing improv melodies.. that was fucking nothing. Everyone was looking up to a guy with mediocre skill. Coming up with melodies is what makes a person a musician. If you can't do that then wtf are you? A sound engineer?

Is that how you see the world diginut, people who do stuff you can't do are bragging about it when they speak? Do you expect really that everyone on this forum but you has to use a big ass crap omnisphear synth or something and is reduced to presets? Synth programming is a *basic* skill. Its novice level production. I suppose if you can't even do that than it is bragging.

And finally, to the subject of me being wrong. Show me where I was wrong about anything other than what I have admitted to being wrong?

In this thread, what did I say that was "incorrect" tell me?

/me is waiting.

Man what they say about TA is true. I guess I should go back to treating everyone as a lesser person than me, because that is how people act. Lesser than me. So keep droning out your dribble.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir I guess I should go back to treating everyone as a lesser person than me, because that is how people act. Lesser than me.

Go back? When did you stop, Narcissus?

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Go back? When did you stop, Narcissus?

Yeah I tried being nice for a few days. Guess it didn't work, you have to treat people the way they treat you. Which means my attitude is justified.

Lol some of the people around here are like animals, you even look at them and they think you want to fight, like ants and other bugs. They don't even realize they are NOT in a fight, but they try to fight anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Yeah I tried being nice for a few days. Guess it didn't work, you have to treat people the way they treat you.

You're missing my point.

You're also looking at your own reflection and I suspect you don't really like what you see. Unfortunately, you aren't quick to read someone else's post and realize that it may be a reflection of the content of yours. Instead, you've chosen to blame others and accept no responsibility for your own actions that led to the current crisis where you've decided to adopt a rather aggressive posture.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker You're missing my point. You're also looking at your own reflection and I suspect you don't really like what you see. Unfortunately, you aren't quick to read someone else's post and realize that it may be a reflection of the content of yours. Instead, you've chosen to blame others and accept no responsibility for your own actions that led to the current crisis where you've decided to adopt a rather aggressive posture.

Nah, These problems don't happen anywhere else, so I suspect its just part of the environment. Perhaps because there is a lack of moderators to break up retarded netisputes. Or maby everyone is just on a road to try and best the other man, who knows? I mean its in most peoples nature to try to disprove another guy they don't agree with, and seeing as every time I post my opinion, this urge occurs in someone.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Nah, These problems don't happen anywhere else, so I suspect its just part of the environment. Perhaps because there is a lack of moderators to break up retarded netisputes. Or maby everyone is just on a road to try and best the other man, who knows? I mean its in most peoples nature to try to disprove another guy they don't agree with, and seeing as every time I post my opinion, this urge occurs in someone.

A quick and very plausible rationalization.

Are you in a place where ego is largely king? Yes.

Do your posts, in particular, tend to attract attention which disputes your theses? Yes.

Is TA a place where a thicker than normal skin is required? Probably. This isn't the place for vulnerable, over-sensitive egos who take things too personally or literally.

Is this a result of everyone else's problem and not of yours? I don't think there's a case to be made for validation of a conclusion which may otherwise support persecutory delusions.

For starters, if that were the case, people wouldn't be able to get along here, much, at all, let alone enough to be able to generate any sort of sustained discussion. You may be looked up to when you go elsewhere but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people here, who while they don't believe they're the smartest person in the room, know who they are and know they are smart. And, honestly, most of the people here, in this forum, seem to fall into that category.

The moderators of the forum aren't to blame for your predicament, either. My observation is that they want a place where healthy debate is fostered, and that in so doing, they've adopted a laid back style. Most of the disagreements that I've either witnessed or been party to have been resolved when the individuals either agreed to disagree or simply decided that the points in contention were too trivial to be sore about.

What's more, in that regard, is that when friction arises, it's not altogether unhealthy and can actually function to stimulate the discussion further.

It's not that anyone here is better than you but, you ought to consider, you're no better than any of them, either. The only person whose feelings are going to be hurt is you when your estimation of yourself continues to support the belief that you're any better than anyone else. The fact of the matter is that it just isn't true enough for people to put up with someone who acts that way without making small cases which easily prove otherwise; hence, your obstinacy in reaction to the way you're being treated.

its weird their was a time i hated my time here on ta. i had the piss taken out of me left right and center.

and now the tables have turned some what and i try to give something back. you will have to realise that people will always question what other people say. that doesn't mean it makes them right or wrong,just a small fact.

i think most will agree the production room has become more chilled and friendly and lets hope it stays that way.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Diginut, As mentioned before your not even an artist. Lets see you create anything in 3osc. You know you all talk a lot of shit, but not one of you has even produce a piece of music worth listening to.

Truth does not equal repetition.

quote:

I mean really, no one on this forum even has the ability to understand logical fallacy and debate properly.

Hahah, that is textbook Freudian projection right there.

quote:

I guess I should go back to treating everyone as a lesser person than me

Go back to? When did you stop?

Except that I believe some people do objectively have more value than others. I suppose you consider that a problem. There are people better than me, and there are people who aren't, a lot [all] of it has to do with their reasoning, their ability to function. And to make sense and realize certain things about the world.

A good example of an un reasonable or illogical person, the one that cannot differentiate between reality and imaginary. Take the notion that if you divide something in your mind by 50%, you will always have something there. Infinitely. While the reality is that no object is infinite and thus you cannot really divide something by 50% infinitely.

The one that understands that is how it is. Is reasonable, and is better than the one who cannot. For Example.

Or even more, "a thing must be to do". Many people cannot grasp that concept.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker A quick and very plausible rationalization. Are you in a place where ego is largely king? Yes. Do your posts, in particular, tend to attract attention which disputes your theses? Yes. Is TA a place where a thicker than normal skin is required? Probably. This isn't the place for vulnerable, over-sensitive egos who take things too personally or literally. Is this a result of everyone else's problem and not of yours? I don't think there's a case to be made for validation of a conclusion which may otherwise support persecutory delusions. For starters, if that were the case, people wouldn't be able to get along here, much, at all, let alone enough to be able to generate any sort of sustained discussion. You may be looked up to when you go elsewhere but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people here, who while they don't believe they're the smartest person in the room, know who they are and know they are smart. And, honestly, most of the people here, in this forum, seem to fall into that category. The moderators of the forum aren't to blame for your predicament, either. My observation is that they want a place where healthy debate is fostered, and that in so doing, they've adopted a laid back style. Most of the disagreements that I've either witnessed or been party to have been resolved when the individuals either agreed to disagree or simply decided that the points in contention were too trivial to be sore about. What's more, in that regard, is that when friction arises, it's not altogether unhealthy and can actually function to stimulate the discussion further. It's not that anyone here is better than you but, you ought to consider, you're no better than any of them, either. The only person whose feelings are going to be hurt is you when your estimation of yourself continues to support the belief that you're any better than anyone else. The fact of the matter is that it just isn't true enough for people to put up with someone who acts that way without making small cases which easily prove otherwise; hence, your obstinacy in reaction to the way you're being treated.

oh and this conclusion is a fair one.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Take the notion that if you divide something in your mind by 50%, you will always have something there. Infinitely. While the reality is that no object is infinite and thus you cannot really divide something by 50% infinitely.

I want what you're smoking.

Dividing by 50% is the same is multiplying by 2. You can indeed do this an infinite number of times, although eventually you'd probably run out of memory/paper/abacus beads/whatever else you're using to do the calculation.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I want what you're smoking. Dividing by 50% is the same is multiplying by 2. You can indeed do this an infinite number of times, although eventually you'd probably run out of memory/paper/abacus beads/whatever else you're using to do the calculation.

Well ok. I was going to say you cannot divide an object this way because objects don't contain an infinite amount of particles. And we know this because objects have relative size. But that works too :P

At the request of a friend reading this thread...

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