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-- Michael Jackson
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Got a call an hour ago, my grandmother passed away. :/. Alot of deaths recently.

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Originally posted by Chimney Alot of deaths recently.

Uh yea, like 7 people die every second, alot of deaths recently indeed.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Jesus Christ, other people wrote and produced most of his songs. Jackson's success was propped up by a huge number of other people. Just think about his music videos, which gave him a massive commercial edge. The man could sing and dance very well, but that's it. He was a well-marketed pop star, and it's stupid to compare him to a band like The Beatles, who sold more records and actually wrote and played their own songs.

most of his best songs were written by him

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Originally posted by Rebel Brown You've been hit by, you've been struck by, your left ventricle.

ahahahaha

Michael Jackson was one of the last super stars alive who had influenced the music so much and his name is known by billions. All these "new stars" are nothing compared to people like him. Even though I am not a huge fan of his music, I respect him for what he did. RIP

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Originally posted by RapidFire most of his best songs were written by him

Not really. He wrote less than half of the Thriller LP, for example.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Jesus Christ, other people wrote and produced most of his songs. Jackson's success was propped up by a huge number of other people. Just think about his music videos, which gave him a massive commercial edge. The man could sing and dance very well, but that's it. He was a well-marketed pop star, and it's stupid to compare him to a band like The Beatles, who sold more records and actually wrote and played their own songs.

I think it was mainly Michael who pushed his music videos to the level way above anything else.
Of course there always are a lot of people involved, but that for sure has to do with the artist.

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Originally posted by Trance-MB I think it was mainly Michael who pushed his music videos to the level way above anything else. Of course there always are a lot of people involved, but that for sure has to do with the artist.

Oh come on. He didn't direct the Thriller video. John Landis, a very good director, did. He didn't choreograph all the extras and dance their roles. He didn't do the makeup. He didn't write the track itself, nor did he produce it.

We're talking about a guy who, with a lot of help, made three or four very good pop albums and then progressively plunged into farce. He didn't pioneer any genres or movements. He's not on the level of The Beatles, Kraftwerk, James Brown or their ilk.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Oh come on. He didn't direct the Thriller video. John Landis, a very good director, did. He didn't choreograph all the extras and dance their roles. He didn't do the makeup. He didn't write the track itself, nor did he produce it. We're talking about a guy who, with a lot of help, made three or four very good pop albums and then progressively plunged into farce. He didn't pioneer any genres or movements. He's not on the level of The Beatles, Kraftwerk, James Brown or their ilk.

Sure, but how many other ridiculously famous people had a lot of help from sound engineers, producers, choreographers? Michael Jackson still sang and danced and won the hearts of America. You don't have to make all your beats, write all your songs, or choreograph all your moves to still be considered great. Regardless of who helped him out, Michael Jackson was still the star, and rightfully so.

Michael Jackson came over my house to use the bathroom

Yep, he actually didn't do anything, probably also not the singing
And I guess people who worked close to him didn't mean a word of what they said about him.

I think you guys are getting a little too offended by this.

Jackson made some fantastic music and was a great entertainer who later went to complete shit. He is not a god.

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Originally posted by enydo I think you guys are getting a little too offended by this. Jackson made some fantastic music and was a great entertainer who later went to complete shit. He is not a god.

Yeah, he's not a god, he didn't revolutionize music, but he didn't do jack shit either. He still put in a lot of work as an artist, and I think that's what some of these people are arguing for.

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Originally posted by ziptnf Sure, but how many other ridiculously famous people had a lot of help from sound engineers, producers, choreographers? Michael Jackson still sang and danced and won the hearts of America. You don't have to make all your beats, write all your songs, or choreograph all your moves to still be considered great. Regardless of who helped him out, Michael Jackson was still the star, and rightfully so.

Indeed. In Holland everybody knows that many of the songs of the most successfull and popular Dutch singer Marco Borsato (Italian roots) have been writen by John Ewbank.
Still he won TMF awards since 1996 every year.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Not really. He wrote less than half of the Thriller LP, for example.

yes the best half (not including the title track). on later albums he wrote the majority of the tracks

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Originally posted by ziptnf Sure, but how many other ridiculously famous people had a lot of help from sound engineers, producers, choreographers?

Personally, I don't equate "ridiculously famous" with "god". Arnold Schwarzenegger won over the American public, but does that make him an acting god? No.

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Originally posted by RapidFire yes the best half (not including the title track). on later albums he wrote the majority of the tracks

As far as I'm concerned, his later albums were mostly crap. By the time the 90s rolled around he was talked about more for his weird films, creepy live performances with kids hailing him as some sort of messiah and short-lived celebrity marriages than for crap like The Earth Song.

The guy was deeply, deeply flawed, and saying "he was very famous and sold many records" doesn't change that. It's an appeal to popularity, basically.

I think all the flaws and the weirdness probably added to his cult of personality.

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What makes something an object of fandom? There are some works that attract obsessive fannish behaviour and some that don't -- and this seems to be independent of popularity. To take an example from LucasProduct, both Raiders of the Lost Ark and Star Wars are hugely popular movies, but only the latter has developed a significant fan base. Why? My theory is that for something to attract fans, it must have an aspect of truly monumental badness about it. Raiders of the Lost Ark is a robust potboiler, tongue-in-cheek, very competently done. I think it's enjoyable, but even among those who don't, it's hard to see the film attracting actual derision. Boredom or irritation, probably, but nothing more. Star Wars, on the other hand.... From one perspective, it's an entertaining space opera, but from a slightly different perspective, an imperceptible twist of the glass, it's laughably awful. Utterly ridiculously bad. And it's this very badness that makes so many people take up arms in its defence. ...It's impossible to imagine a fan of Animal Farm, the Well-Tempered Clavier, or the theory of gravity. Such works can defend themselves. But badness, especially badness of an obvious, monumental variety, inspires devotion. The quality of the work, in the face of such glaring shortcomings, becomes a matter of faith -- and faith is a much stronger bond than mere appreciation. It drives fans together, gives them strength against those who sneer... And so the fan groups of Tolkien, Star Trek, Spider-man, Japanese kiddie-cartoons etc. develop an almost cult-like character.

http://plover.net/~bonds/objects.html

Attempting to minimize Michael Jackson's influence on music is laughable.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Jesus Christ, other people wrote and produced most of his songs. Jackson's success was propped up by a huge number of other people.

Oh god it begins.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Jesus Christ, other people wrote and produced most of his songs. Jackson's success was propped up by a huge number of other people. Just think about his music videos, which gave him a massive commercial edge. The man could sing and dance very well, but that's it. He was a well-marketed pop star, and it's stupid to compare him to a band like The Beatles, who sold more records and actually wrote and played their own songs.

there's always that hater that hates MJ just to try and stand out from the rest.

MJ is the greatest musician and dancer ever.

Michael Jackson > Tom Colontonio, add in Carl Cocks

Cocks.

Fuck SYSTEM-J, you seem butthurt. Were you one of those kids that spent the night at Neverland?

I grew up with his tracks, and still love them. Albums Thriller, Bad and Dangerous all include some masterpieces.

But it might be better for him and the rest of the world this way... i think the 50 concerts would have become a complete fail in his last physical condition anyway.

On a side note. The masks and effects for the Thriller video were made by this guy in the car:

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Originally posted by woscar Fuck SYSTEM-J, you seem butthurt. Were you one of those kids that spent the night at Neverland?

You were more interesting when you didn't find it necessary to act like a cock all the time, you know.

The only reason I'm pursuing this line of argument is because people are calling him a "god" and vastly over-stating his influence. Ask someone about MJ a week ago and it would have been "He used to be good, but he's completely off the rails now". Now it's "He was a genius, a god, he invented modern dancing, he invented modern music." He didn't even invent the fucking moonwalk!

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