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quote:

Originally posted by MissK They did for me, I even had to get a witness to write a report explaining the other person hit me. My insurance went from $180 to $230. This was with York Fire Insurance

I need to know what happened in the accident before I can say how much at fault each party is. By law they cannot increase your rates if you are not at fault so they must have determined you were either partially at fault for the accident or 100% at fault for the accident.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I need to know what happened in the accident before I can say how much at fault each party is. By law they cannot increase your rates if you are not at fault so they must have determined you were either partially at fault for the accident or 100% at fault for the accident.

Bitches. I'm calling them.

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Originally posted by MissK They did for me, I even had to get a witness to write a report explaining the other person hit me. My insurance went from $180 to $230. This was with York Fire Insurance

Two possible things here... one... there was a split in liability (without knowing the details of the investigation I cannot give an opinion on liability). Did you pay a deductible? If you did then you were deemed at fault (at least in part).
two... your rates went up for non-claims reasons. Rest assured; BY LAW your risk rating cannot be adjusted due to a 0% liability collision in the province of Ontario; subsequently, your rates cannot be altered due to a 0% liability collision in the provice of Ontario.

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Originally posted by mute79 so are you saying that auto insurance premiums would be higher by at least 30% then, if it weren't for government regulation?

That depends how you define government regulation... if one were to remove FSCO's artificial controls on auto premiums then yes, premiums would rise. If; however, you were to remove the government regulation that controls the Accident Benefits claims process and benefits then premiums would likely decrease (because the cost of claims across the industry would decrease).

The goal for insurers is always a 1:1 combined ratio... the combined ratio is the cost of claims and expenses compared to premium dollars. The goal is to keep claims costs and expenses equal to the primium dollars collected. If the ratio is balanced that means that the product is priced properly and they will attract the risks (clients) that they want. Insurers don't look to premiums to make money, that's what investments are for. If they are losing money on the premiums though then they have to pull money out of their investment account to cover the losses... if they are making money on the premiums then they are pricing themselves too high for their target market and therefore not capturing as much business as they could.... neither of these are a desirable situation, which is why 1:1 is the desired ratio.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Two possible things here... one... there was a split in liability (without knowing the details of the investigation I cannot give an opinion on liability). Did you pay a deductible? If you did then you were deemed at fault (at least in part). two... your rates went up for non-claims reasons. Rest assured; BY LAW your risk rating cannot be adjusted due to a 0% liability collision in the province of Ontario; subsequently, your rates cannot be altered due to a 0% liability collision in the provice of Ontario.

I'm on it, just called the general claims dept. and they said it was a no-fault claim on my part. Now I'm calling my broker to get to the bottom of this.

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Originally posted by MissK They did for me, I even had to get a witness to write a report explaining the other person hit me.

That doesn't necessarily guarantee that they didn't place you (partially) at fault, nor does the fact that they say it was a no-fault claim. All claims in Ontario are no-fault; that just means that your own underwriter pays regardless of who is at fault (they can attempt to go after the at-fault party's insurer afterward). You can still be assigned a certain degree of fault, which goes on your record, and that's what causes your rates to go up. In other words, rates go up because you're considered a higher risk, and it has nothing to do with the amount of the claim you made.

When my old car was hit in a parking lot, there were about $2500 in damages. I made a claim, and my rates went down the following year.

Maybe yours made a mistake. Or maybe your rates went up for some totally unrelated reason. What you need to ask them is whether or not you were considered partially liable... them saying that it was a no-fault claim doesn't really tell you anything.

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Originally posted by DigiNut (they can attempt to go after the at-fault party's insurer afterward).

In Ontario they CANNOT subrogate against the at fault party insurer....that is part of No-Fault. Part of the reason insurance companies can't subrogate was to keep insurance rates lower. The insurance companies were spending millions recouping money from each other. In the law of large numbers in doesn't make sense to spend all that money when in the long run they were recouping basically the same amount from each other.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard The goal for insurers is always a 1:1 combined ratio... the combined ratio is the cost of claims and expenses compared to premium dollars. The goal is to keep claims costs and expenses equal to the primium

Exactly. Insurance companies will even refund you if they take more premiums in than claims (assuming they are a mutual).

State Farm has refunded premiums to me twice.

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Originally posted by malek Retract yourself dumb ass, you should be ashamed of yourself saying such idiocies without looking it up first. If you even knew how equalization worked in the first place, you would know that your broke ass isn't paying a dime into it.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp

Of the 14.2 billion in equalization payments it looks like Quebec is getting over $8 billion(over 50% of the total) this year and Ontario is getting 347 million the first time it has ever received any payment in the history of the program.

Do your own homework.

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Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp Of the 14.2 billion in equalization payments it looks like Quebec is getting over $8 billion(over 50% of the total) this year and Ontario is getting 347 million the first time it has ever received any payment in the history of the program. Do your own homework.

you are truly a retard, we are talking about car insurances and why it cost less in Quebec (because of the SAAQ and its no-fault system).

The SAAQ is solely funded by the premiums paid by drivers in Quebec. Equalization fund programs such as health and education for example but not SAAQ! Do you understand that?

You chose the wrong guy to argue with.

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Originally posted by malek you are truly a retard, we are talking about car insurances and why it cost less in Quebec (because of the SAAQ and its no-fault system). The SAAQ is solely funded by the premiums paid by drivers in Quebec. Equalization fund programs such as health and education for example but not SAAQ! Do you understand that? You chose the wrong guy to argue with.

Wow you really do get upset when people argue with you. If you actually did some research and did your home work you would see you are wrong. See the link below from the Insurance Bureau of Canada. The report quoted is from an independent study they commissioned to look at the differences in insurance rates between provinces and also private and public car insurance.

From the independent report at the end of 2006. On page 39 and 40. The government can afford to subsidize this because of the equalization payments.

http://www.ibc.ca/en/Media_Centre/d..._nrDec27-06.pdf



Governments have intervened to control the price of insurance. In Quebec, insurance rates have increased only 30 per cent over three decades, far below the rate of inflation. The result is that relative to other provinces, Quebec�s insurance rates appear to be a bargain. However, Quebec�s taxpayers have subsidized such low rates through the tax system. One estimate is that in the current year, the Societe de l'assurance automobile du Quebec will take in only $750 million while it will pay out almost $1.2 billion, a $450 million deficit.54 Taxpayers, instead of consumers who drive and according
to their relative risk, end up paying that difference.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Exactly. Insurance companies will even refund you if they take more premiums in than claims (assuming they are a mutual). State Farm has refunded premiums to me twice.

Kind of inaccurate there RJ... when one is insured with a mutual company then the policy is also a share certificate (meaning that purchasing a policy makes you a shareholder); subsequently, they are really paying you a dividend rather then refunding premium.

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 I wonder what the final bill was when I had my car totalled by a cop cruiser earlier this year.

Ahh, I just heard about this accident the other day. Tr�s shitty.

Hell of a thing. Sorry to hear abt that situation, Cale.

Quick question for those in the industry:

Is it normal to have 3 separate 3rd party claims adjusters hounding me to meet with them about an accident? I just got a call from a completely new company I have never heard of, SCM Claimspro. I thought this bullshit was done with. I fucking HATE insurance.

There is comparative negligence in New York State...do you have this in Canada?

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 Quick question for those in the industry: Is it normal to have 3 separate 3rd party claims adjusters hounding me to meet with them about an accident? I just got a call from a completely new company I have never heard of, SCM Claimspro. I thought this bullshit was done with. I fucking HATE insurance.

That really depends on how many parties were involved in the accident. Each one will have an insurer and if they are trying to determine fault and whether or not they have an exposure for an injury claim from you then they will want to talk to you. As an adjuster I would strongly encourage you to do so (at your convienence) as your evidence may be very valuable... assuming that you aren't making an injury claim... if you are then you may not want to. That said... if you gave a statement to your own insurer then you can simply authorize them to obtain a copy from them.

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Originally posted by BuffaloLiz There is comparative negligence in New York State...do you have this in Canada?

Joint and Several liability and comparative negligence in Ontario... but only for bodily injury and economic losses that exceed a verbal and/or monetary threshold.

*** edit, you also have J&S

quote:

Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT Wow you really do get upset when people argue with you. If you actually did some research and did your home work you would see you are wrong. See the link below from the Insurance Bureau of Canada. The report quoted is from an independent study they commissioned to look at the differences in insurance rates between provinces and also private and public car insurance. From the independent report at the end of 2006. On page 39 and 40. The government can afford to subsidize this because of the equalization payments. http://www.ibc.ca/en/Media_Centre/d..._nrDec27-06.pdf Governments have intervened to control the price of insurance. In Quebec, insurance rates have increased only 30 per cent over three decades, far below the rate of inflation. The result is that relative to other provinces, Quebec�s insurance rates appear to be a bargain. However, Quebec�s taxpayers have subsidized such low rates through the tax system. One estimate is that in the current year, the Societe de l'assurance automobile du Quebec will take in only $750 million while it will pay out almost $1.2 billion, a $450 million deficit.54 Taxpayers, instead of consumers who drive and according to their relative risk, end up paying that difference.

wait a second there, you are basing your opinion on this tiny paragraph without any context???

Truly you have no idea what you are talking about, and this report is clearly biased to favour private insurance corporations.

The defecit is explained by the huge cushion the SAAQ has been cumulating over the decades, that's why it can be in defecit a given year (2006 in this example)...

But that doesn't mean the government is subsidizing it. If you had taken a few moments to check the annual SAAQ report i posted a linkt to, all of its monies is coming from Quebec drivers, not the tax payers at large as this bogus report is insinuating.

That being said, the SAAQ won't be able to run 450 millions defecits year after year without hiking its premiums... guess what is already hapening

p.s. you are still wrong, and you owe my home province an apology

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 Quick question for those in the industry: Is it normal to have 3 separate 3rd party claims adjusters hounding me to meet with them about an accident? I just got a call from a completely new company I have never heard of, SCM Claimspro. I thought this bullshit was done with. I fucking HATE insurance.

Craig answered most of it but just to give you a break down here of the adjusters that could call you on a two vehicle collision.

Physical Damage Adjuster - the adjuster that handles your auto claim.

Accident Benefit Adjuster - the adjuster who handles your injury claim.

Your Insurer Bodily Injury Adjuster - This adjuster would handle possible injury claim in the third party vehicle.

Independent Adjuster - An independent adjuster, like myself, hired by your insurance company to handle any one of the above parts of the claim or to just do task work

3rd Party Physical Damage Adjuster - May call you just to confirm details of the loss.

3rd Party Bodily Injury Adjuster - This is the adjuster most like to call you.

3rd Party Independent Adjuster - same as above but for the third party insurer.

The company, SCM Claimspro, is an independent adjusting firm. Most likely they have been hired by the third party insurer to investigate a possible Bodily Injury Claim.

Like Craig said, if an adjuster from your company came and took a statement from you then just tell the adjuster they can have a copy and to send you an authorization form to sign.

quote:

Originally posted by malek wait a second there, you are basing your opinion on this tiny paragraph without any context??? Truly you have no idea what you are talking about, and this report is clearly biased to favour private insurance corporations. The defecit is explained by the huge cushion the SAAQ has been cumulating over the decades, that's why it can be in defecit a given year (2006 in this example)... But that doesn't mean the government is subsidizing it. If you had taken a few moments to check the annual SAAQ report i posted a linkt to, all of its monies is coming from Quebec drivers, not the tax payers at large as this bogus report is insinuating. That being said, the SAAQ won't be able to run 450 millions defecits year after year without hiking its premiums... guess what is already hapening p.s. you are still wrong, and you owe my home province an apology

P.S. The current fund of the SAAQ, the cushion i was talking about, is worth 5.7 billion, so it could still run 450 millions deficits for a while... link http://www.lacaisse.com/EN/DEPOSANT.../deposants.aspx

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Craig answered most of it but just to give you a break down here of the adjusters that could call you on a two vehicle collision. Physical Damage Adjuster - the adjuster that handles your auto claim. Accident Benefit Adjuster - the adjuster who handles your injury claim. Your Insurer Bodily Injury Adjuster - This adjuster would handle possible injury claim in the third party vehicle. Independent Adjuster - An independent adjuster, like myself, hired by your insurance company to handle any one of the above parts of the claim or to just do task work 3rd Party Physical Damage Adjuster - May call you just to confirm details of the loss. 3rd Party Bodily Injury Adjuster - This is the adjuster most like to call you. 3rd Party Independent Adjuster - same as above but for the third party insurer.

Jesus what a colossal waste of resources. Thanks for the info guys, I'm going to tell this dude to get a copy rather than waste my time.

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 Jesus what a colossal waste of resources.

Dude!

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Dude!

Couldn't one person do it all?

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 Couldn't one person do it all?

it would be hard for one person to do it all....there are too many levels of expertise needed when dealing with insurance claims now a days. Not every one of those adjusters is going to be on each claim as not all claims have those exposures. I handle auto AB claims, auto bi claims, property claims and casualty/liability claims.

Thats shitty. I have a clean record and I am stil paying 200$ for my 08 gti

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