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quote:

Originally posted by Rose What the guy did was WRONG and he should be fucking charged. I'm not saying the guy is a saint here. He is a fucked up individual and should have not done that. But he didn't even fucking MAKE her get into the car. SHE chose to get in. Therefore she put herself into that situation.

So? How many times have you chosen to get into a car?

It doesn't matter if its a stranger or someone you know, the act of rape is separate from all of that. You have to look at it as completely divided instances.

Was it a smart decision? No. Was it a wrong decision? Yes. Did it have any baring on her after she got raped? No. She has become a victim at that point and laying blame on her is just demeaning and creating a very negative atmosphere for women who have been raped and choose not to come forward out of the fear of being demeaned for being stupid.

Going "She is a fucking moron" does nothing to help womens rights or for that matter rape victims rights in general.

There is already a horrible stigma attached to the victims of sexual abuse, molestation, and rape and being catty and spiteful about it does nothing to help catch the perpetrators or help the victims.

Chrissi, I never said he was innocent in this. He is a disgusting individual and should be punished for what he did. But she is no fucking saint either. If he would have had a gun or a weapon or something and MADE her get into the car, that is a different story. But again (for the 2184852115th time), SHE GOT IN THE CAR VOLUNTARILY. At her age she should have known better than getting into some random guys car.



Rape is never okay.




The girl is a moron for getting into a strangers car and could have prevent this.


The guy is fucked up and should get punished for his actions.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence once you start saying what "she" shouldn't have done, you give "him" license

See, this is where you and I appear to part company.

It's a total non sequitur to suggest that the mere fact that she got what she deserved for being a complete and total idiot somehow magically justifies the behavior of the rapist.

Both the rapist and the rapee (lol, "rapee") are worthy of contempt.

Okay, Rose.

You want to play this game? You can't only play it as it suits you. If you're gonna play it, you play it. Let's commit.

1. If you get in a car with a guy you don't know, he shouldn't rape you but if he does, you asked for it.

2. If you wear a short skirt and turn some dork on, he shouldn't rape you but if he does, you asked for it.

3. If you drink too much and you're kind of out of control, the guy you're with shouldn't rape you but if he does, you asked for it.

4. If you wear one of those tops that shows nice titties and um maybe tight pants, that guy at the club shouldn't rape you but if he does, you asked for it.

What else do we do wrong? I forget. But I'm sure there's more. Lemme think.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter See, this is where you and I appear to part company. It's a total non sequitur to suggest that the mere fact that she got what she deserved for being a complete and total idiot somehow magically justifies the behavior of the rapist. Both the rapist and the rapee (lol, "rapee") are worthy of contempt.

Girl did stupid things. Stupid things aren't unlawful.

Guys did bad things. Bad things are unlawful.

That's as simple as I can make it.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence Rose, there is never an excuse. She shouldn't have gotten in the car with a stranger becomes She shouldn't have been alone at night becomes She shouldn't have dressed like that becomes She shouldn't have such a hot body... It is never okay. Stupidity is stupidity but rape is never justifiable and is always wrong.

that's a silly way of looking at the situation. no one is saying that rape is justifiable. people are always going to do shitty things to other people. the only thing you can control are your own decisions. this girl made some stupid decisions. that doesn't mean she should have been raped, but she's still an idiot for not calling the police and riding home with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence Girl did stupid things. Stupid things aren't unlawful. Guys did bad things. Bad things are unlawful. That's as simple as I can make it.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that she is a criminal.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec that's a silly way of looking at the situation. no one is saying that rape is justifiable. people are always going to do shitty things to other people. the only thing you can control are your own decisions. this girl made some stupid decisions. that doesn't mean she should have been raped, but she's still an idiot for not calling the police and riding home with them.

You know, I agree. But the last time I went to San Francisco, which is a dirty city with lots of dirty people, I got separated from my girlfriends. This was in daytime. I didn't have my cell (it broke weeks before) and I couldn't find a pay phone. It seems pay phones are no longer needed cuz every one has a cell. Haha to those of us who don't have cells, huh?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec that's a silly way of looking at the situation. no one is saying that rape is justifiable. people are always going to do shitty things to other people. the only thing you can control are your own decisions. this girl made some stupid decisions. that doesn't mean she should have been raped, but she's still an idiot for not calling the police and riding home with them.

This.

pics of said girl??

quote:

Originally posted by Rose This.

um, so we totally discount this:

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence You know, I agree. But the last time I went to San Francisco, which is a dirty city with lots of dirty people, I got separated from my girlfriends. This was in daytime. I didn't have my cell (it broke weeks before) and I couldn't find a pay phone. It seems pay phones are no longer needed cuz every one has a cell. Haha to those of us who don't have cells, huh?

Sigh.

Whatever. One day we all will be mothers to boys. I know what I will teach mine. What you ladies teach yours is up to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence You're a bit older and hopefully more mature and probably less trusting than a 16 year old who had just been raped would be... ffs, people, show some compassion.

lol when i was 7 years old, i knew better than that.

look obviously it's a horrible thing that happened to her but give me a fucking break. she's 16 years old (probably wasn't a virgin) walking around the streets of chicago at 1 in the morning and gets in some dude's car....lol i'm sorry but there's only limited feelings of sympathy from me.

how would you feel if some young mother was barely paying attention to her kid while having a party or something and the kid fell in the pool and drowned? or the kid was playing with someone's dog and the dog bit the baby in the face?

that's the same kind of stupid decision making (or lack there of) if you ask me. every young girl knows better than to get in a strange guy's car at night.

She was walking around Southside Chicago... at 230am? Southside Chicago, an extremely dangerous part of the US...

-sighs and shakes head-

The first rapist released her. I guess he didn't care if she was walking around southside Chicago at 230am. We'll spank him, okay?

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence The first rapist released her. I guess he didn't care if she was walking around southside Chicago at 230am. We'll spank him, okay?

i'm not saying at all that the rapist deserves a slap on hand or anything, i was just focusing on the victim and how i don't feel sorry for her.

a rapist is a rapist. nothing changes the fact that he's a piece of shit who belongs in jail, but she is also a dumb bitch who had it coming.

She's 16 ffs. Not 6. Throw her ass in jail so that stupidity does not reproduce.

quote:

Originally posted by Renzo She's 16 ffs. Not 6. Throw her ass in jail so that stupidity does not reproduce.

+1111100000

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee i'm not saying at all that the rapist deserves a slap on hand or anything, i was just focusing on the victim and how i don't feel sorry for her. a rapist is a rapist. nothing changes the fact that he's a piece of shit who belongs in jail, but she is also a dumb bitch who had it coming.

People keep harping on the fact that she's on the streets of Chicago alone at 230. Well, from what I read the first rapist released her so yeah, now she's on the streets of Chicago at 230. Unfortunately, we couldn't send him a pm and ask him to hold her til, maybe, 7am?

I don't think any woman "has it coming."

Because she makes really bad choices, she has it coming? That's the same as saying the rape is acceptable or allowable or permissible and it's not.

Not not not. Never ever.

I know what you guys are saying but I don't like the way you say it. I think there's a fine line and you're crossing it. It's important for the girls and boys we one day raise, not to cross the fine line.

But I'm tired of discussing this. I'm different, I'm okay with that.

it's important that the boys and girls we raise one day know better than to get in the car with a stranger at night lol


answer my question before about the mother being negligent with her child. you wouldn't feel so bad for her would you?

when you make an obvious dumb decision and suffer consequences, i don't feel that sorry for you, that's all we're saying. no one is excusing rape, but rape is real and out there and happens regularly and any girl with a half a brain and self respect would never get into the car of a strange man, i don't give a shit what he said to her. you're setting up the perfect scenerio to be raped or killed, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee it's important that the boys and girls we raise one day know better than to get in the car with a stranger at night lol answer my question before about the mother being negligent with her child. you wouldn't feel so bad for her would you? when you make an obvious dumb decision and suffer consequences, i don't feel that sorry for you, that's all we're saying. no one is excusing rape, but rape is real and out there and happens regularly and any girl with a half a brain and self respect would never get into the car of a strange man, i don't give a shit what he said to her. you're setting up the perfect scenerio to be raped or killed, etc...

Didn't your parents teach you not to smoke? Smoking is bad.

Didn't your parents teach you not to do drugs? Drugs are bad?

Don't have sex without protection? You'll get stds, pregnant, aids...

Don't talk to strangers?

Now.

Most of us smoke cigarettes at some time or another. We deserve to get cancer and die?

Most of us use drugs at some time or another. We deserve whatever happens to druggies (I wasn't paying attention to this lecture).

Most of us have had sex without protection...so we deserve stds, pregnancies, aids...

Most of us have talked to strangers...

It's just ridiculous.

Of course she shouldn't get in a car with someone she doesn't know. Who the fuck knows what condition she was in before she got in that car? Who cares?

This is ridiculous.

If you guys think she deserved to be raped...lol, okay. Fine. I quit the argument.

I think no girl, no woman "deserves" to be raped.

Doesn't matter what she wears. Doesn't matter what she does.

She doesn't "deserve" to be raped.

smoking and doing drugs are bad choices that you are doing to yourself by choice.

walking around the streets and getting in the car with strangers is putting yourself in a situation where you might very soon NOT have control or a choice over anything (rape).


wanna try again? lol

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee smoking and doing drugs are bad choices that you are doing to yourself by choice. walking around the streets and getting in the car with strangers is putting yourself in a situation where you might very soon NOT have control or a choice over anything (rape). wanna try again? lol

You don't know what time she was walking the streets and getting into the car with the first stranger.

You really don't even know that he was a stranger.

All you know is she got in a car and the guy raped her.

Then he released her and she was again walking the streets of Chicago, this time in bad shape we surmise because she had already been raped, at 230am.

Smokers don't have control or choice over getting cancer or emphesema.

You think all people who use drugs or have sex without adequate protection are in control?

Seriously, this is ceasing to amuse me and starting to annoy me.

I agree to have a different opinion than everyone else in the world.

How's that?

Actually, I'm going to side with Echoes here. Also, I think she forgot to mention that we don't know in what exact situation she accepted the first lift home. Though it's natural to judge someone under those circumstances, we know very little about the incident. There are tons of reasons why you may end up doing something that looks completely clueless to outsiders...

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Is rape okay in a ticking bomb scenario?

Are bombs okay in a tickling rape scenario?

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence I agree to have a different opinion than everyone else in the world.

I'm sorry, that's no longer the case (though some of my arguments are, naturally, different from yours ).

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I'm sorry, that's no longer the case (though some of my arguments are, naturally, different from yours ).

Cheers

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