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HILARIOUS THREAD IS HILARIOUS.

just sayin

When did downloaded samples = low quality? The only difference between a bought VSL Orchestra and a downloaded VSL Orchestra...is one of them was paid for.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 When did downloaded samples = low quality? The only difference between a bought VSL Orchestra and a downloaded VSL Orchestra...is one of them was paid for.

The bought version has its own vst player and supports 64 bit addressing. That is a pretty big difference.

quote:

Originally posted by derail Most of the best producers, on the other hand, use quality samples. And I'm not trying to get people around to my way of thinking either. Why would I, if you're happy swiping other people's hard work in creating computers and sequencers to create music? I think it's absolutely horrible, not creating the sequencer and all the synths and effects you use yourself, but if you're fine with that....then fine. If you can live with yourself, and sleep at night...then that's just fine.

so let me get this clear you're basicly saying unless i build all software/hardware from scratch my points made are invalid?

if that is the case then sorry but you're way of the mark!

and can not see how making your own host/sequencer has any baring on working with your own samples whilst putting a track together.

at the end of the day i dont want my tracks to sound the same as everybody else and if i need any parts for my tunes then i sit and make them. maybe it's because i have the skill to do that lucky me.

i understand why you may want to use the most up to speed sample packs but please in the end would they/you not be much more happy with doing it all yourself? i bet most do or will and just needs time to get in tune with their software/hardware set up regardless or not it was made by themself or someone else.

oh and point in case m.i.k.e makes all his own work from scratch and if you hear his albums you will hear why

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV The bought version has its own vst player and supports 64 bit addressing. That is a pretty big difference.

You can get that with a download. Unless I missed something. Any software can be gotten from a download. Anyways, VSL was an example.

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Originally posted by Sonic_c I would love to find the thread i still dont believe that all vengeance do is nick samples.

Not everything is stolen as Manuel Schleis does work for them in producing loops etc. But when you listne to the loops, hooks etc you can tell what songs they are from.

Ive recognised loads, one being Spiller - Groovejet.

quote:

Originally posted by owien so let me get this clear you're basicly saying unless i build all software/hardware from scratch my points made are invalid? if that is the case then sorry but you're way of the mark! and can not see how making your own host/sequencer has any baring on working with your own samples whilst putting a track together. at the end of the day i dont want my tracks to sound the same as everybody else and if i need any parts for my tunes then i sit and make them. maybe it's because i have the skill to do that lucky me. i understand why you may want to use the most up to speed sample packs but please in the end would they/you not be much more happy with doing it all yourself? i bet most do or will and just needs time to get in tune with their software/hardware set up regardless or not it was made by themself or someone else. oh and point in case m.i.k.e makes all his own work from scratch and if you hear his albums you will hear why

Listen, if you're comfortable using synths, effects and sequencers that other people have created, that's fine for you. I just think it's lazy.

I don't want to use oscillators and filters and mixing algorithms that other people created.

How can I be original if I'm using an 18dB lowpass filter that someone else has created, with a predetermined shape? It's going to sound exactly the same as every other producer using that filter.

If I use an off-the-shelf sequencer such as Cubase, Logic, Live, or whatever, then I'll be tied into the particular way that the program I use sums it's audio, and the workflow that that sequencer provides.

If I use an existing synth, then I'm using oscillators/ waveforms which the synth manufacturer created - I don't want to use other people's work, I want to do everything myself. I just think it's lazy to use a synthesizer that you didn't make yourself.

rofl!

lmao

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Originally posted by derail As I said, everyone has their own opinion. My opinion is, that unless you: 1) build your own (analogue, obviously) sound sources, using components you have created yourself (no off-the shelf russian circuits - I build all my own circuit boards, vacuum tubes and so on, from materials I took from the earth with my own bare hands); 2) sample them using a microphone you've also built yourself, into a computer you've built yourself (once again, from the ground up, using a chip architecture you've designed rather than an Intel/ AMD copy), running an operating system you've written; 3) use the samples in a sequencer which you've written (using a computer language you created, rather than using something off-the-shelf, such as C++) Then you're lazy. And not a "real" musician. And a jerk. Because using anything that anyone else did is just plain wrong. But as I said, this is purely my opinion. Others are equally valid.

Haha. Are you shitting me? I think you need to step up the dosage of your medication.

I'd love to see houw you built your own computer and written your own compiler (on that computer I presume). Also post some pics of the vacuum tubes you built, but... first you must design a camera, wirte a photo manipulating app and then design your own internet so you can post the pics. Also, for extra originality invent your own colors, otherwise you're not a real photographer.

quote:

Originally posted by derail I don't want to use oscillators and filters and mixing algorithms that other people created. How can I be original if I'm using an 18dB lowpass filter that someone else has created, with a predetermined shape? It's going to sound exactly the same as every other producer using that filter. If I use an off-the-shelf sequencer such as Cubase, Logic, Live, or whatever, then I'll be tied into the particular way that the program I use sums it's audio, and the workflow that that sequencer provides. If I use an existing synth, then I'm using oscillators/ waveforms which the synth manufacturer created - I don't want to use other people's work, I want to do everything myself. I just think it's lazy to use a synthesizer that you didn't make yourself.

How about you stop using our air for starters?

btw, what the fuck are you even doing on this forum if you build your own gear and try to be original? The scientology forum is over that way...

Photography isn't art.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Photography isn't art.

That's just because most photographers don't build their own cameras and invent their own colors. Real artists know what I'm talking about.

LOL IT DOESNT STOP LOL.

This thread gets an A+ on the scale of LOL.

No, Photography is taking pictures of Nature or other peoples Art. Its not Art. They have to find beauty in something else. Then they take a picture of it and call it their own, they don't come up with the beauty themselves. And, And, And, technically its also theft. According to Ameircan Law.

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Originally posted by vikernes How about you stop using our air for starters? btw, what the fuck are you even doing on this forum if you build your own gear and try to be original? The scientology forum is over that way...

You're spoiling my fun! Obviously I don't mean the things I say. According to my rules, there would be no music! I'm just having a conversation with Owien, and I want to see what he says next.

If Owien really required that no-one ever used samples or samplers, a lot of his favourite songs wouldn't exist. He seems to believe that his personal viewpoint is the "correct" viewpoint and other people are "lazy" if they don't share his viewpoint.

I just wanted to explore his point of view further a bit. I wanted him to post examples of his songs, so he could prove that his songs sound much better than songs made by the hundreds of professional trance producers who use sample packs.

quote:

Originally posted by derail You're spoiling my fun! Obviously I don't mean the things I say. According to my rules, there would be no music! I'm just having a conversation with Owien, and I want to see what he says next. If Owien really required that no-one ever used samples or samplers, a lot of his favourite songs wouldn't exist. He seems to believe that his personal viewpoint is the "correct" viewpoint and other people are "lazy" if they don't share his viewpoint. I just wanted to explore his point of view further a bit. I wanted him to post examples of his songs, so he could prove that his songs sound much better than songs made by the hundreds of professional trance producers who use sample packs.

Owned.

From another view point, I can understand what Owein was getting at, I to thought along sort of those lines in the past. But I believe he just went about explaining him self in the wrong way.

Derail you are right, no one can be called lazy, and you cant say there is a correct way.

Owein, I see what you mean by sampling is lazy or not use own work, but its something has to be accepted. A good producer produces in that way and/or makes their own sounds. It may seem simple and easy to do (sampling), but it also has its difficulties in making good sound music in that way. Like derail said some of all our favourite tracks came about in that fashion and we dont even know and probably never will.

Lets face it as its said before, its the end result that counts. If you make your own sound, sample it or both, if you can produce good music thats the end of it. A prime example is this, this couldnt sum up this whole thread better, or what its turned out to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4 - Just watch the whole thing, its just 1:12. Everyone loves them, and if you dont know, it proves the end result works, and that they are good producers to take samples and do what they do. I know some might argue that, but they are successful so whos to argue with that!

You're right, music2dance2.

Yes, I know what Owien was getting at, and I can imagine if you're interested in sound design and creating your own samples, which he obviously is, that it would be a vital part of the creative process.

But for a lot of producers/ artists, it isn't.

It's easy to put up an arbitrary personal view, for example "if you don't have a bachelor degree in music, majoring in composition, then you're lazy, and shouldn't be creating music".

But this arbitrary view, like the view "you shouldn't use samples", is meaningless, with regard to the real world - the variety of people that create music, and the ways they create that music.

People can be elitist snobs if they like, but they'll find they have a very small range of music to listen to. I'd find it a hassle to make sure that I'm only listening to musicians who have bachelor degrees, much like Owien would find it a hassle to make sure he's only listening to music by people who make their own samples.

Owien can list certain producers who do create their own samples, but can he guarantee that ALL the music he listens to and enjoys is sample free?

Maby its just me, but no one here seems to even know what sampling is.

Because you are using samples from say, a "sample cd" doesn't mean you are "sampling". Sampling is literally when you record your own sounds, and turn them into something that can be used musically. Either from real life or from another audio source. It does infact require a degree of skill. Someone who uses sample cds is entierly different. Someone who uses sample cds in general is someone who can't make the sound themselves, and ontop of that, can't rip it from somewhere [due to poor skill] Most people hate the "sample cd users", not samplers. When folks started use the amen break or the funky mule. It was ok for them, because people knew it took some degree of skill to take a record, record an accurate sample [probably many attempts, as we all know, records play differently every time], then they chopped it up into bits and made a new loop. They processed everything themselves. And they did all the work to get the sample. ... Sample CD users just open up a book of precut, preprocessed sounds and throw them into a mix. Its pretty much the same as using a preset.

Art is, infact, generally rated upon the skill involved to produce it. Which is why photography isn't art at all.

I will make one major note: Obviously, if the sound can't be produced on a synth, then der der der you have to use a sample...such as a violin chorus or a xylaphone or a real snare... [don't be stupid] These are sounds most of us can't sample.

I think there is too little sampling going on in todays music.

Sampling is fun and can make a track stand out.

Yeah, Ive been meaning to expriment making a a loop with just recorded vocal sounds; lead, percs, bass and all.

quote:

Originally posted by owien oh and point in case m.i.k.e makes all his own work from scratch and if you hear his albums you will hear why

And does he stand out anymore for doing that? Not one bit. Everything done in music is strictly personal preference and trying to force your opinions on others especially in relation to production is just showing how much of a clown you are.

quote:

Originally posted by derail It's easy to put up an arbitrary personal view, for example "if you don't have a bachelor degree in music, majoring in composition, then you're lazy, and shouldn't be creating music".

Hey im gonna have one of those and i am still useless stop making generalizations.

Useless and proud!

Also everyone is assuming that people use the loops from vec packs, I use guru and set different start end points and just use like 1/16th or something as it often conains two or more sounds at different points in their transient and combined with several of theese makes for a good loop.

quote:

Originally posted by derail You're spoiling my fun! Obviously I don't mean the things I say. According to my rules, there would be no music! I'm just having a conversation with Owien, and I want to see what he says next. If Owien really required that no-one ever used samples or samplers, a lot of his favourite songs wouldn't exist. He seems to believe that his personal viewpoint is the "correct" viewpoint and other people are "lazy" if they don't share his viewpoint. I just wanted to explore his point of view further a bit. I wanted him to post examples of his songs, so he could prove that his songs sound much better than songs made by the hundreds of professional trance producers who use sample packs.

well like i said before i must be the lucky one because i can make what ever i need for my tunes.
this doesn't make me an elitest no but in the end i am a better producer for it.


and i'm sorry but you have taken my points out of context.

yes i am a creative producer and yes i like to know my work is my own and no i dont see why people would be happy with using sounds from other places.

i have many projects witch has not come to life this is just a matter of time and more hard work.

and no one here has really proven using key sample packs makes for great tunes.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 And does he stand out anymore for doing that? Not one bit. Everything done in music is strictly personal preference and trying to force your opinions on others especially in relation to production is just showing how much of a clown you are.

witch is why he is seen as one of the best producers in the game. only my point of view of course.and why would i want people to come round a like my personal preffrances i just thought being orignal was something we all were after. so i guess that makes you the clown here not me a!

quote:

Originally posted by owien yes i am a creative producer and yes i like to know my work is my own and no i dont see why people would be happy with using sounds from other places.

Like from the Roland 909 that had a crucial impact on earlier M.I.K.E productions ? and for the record, MIKE uses vengeance samples too.

If you mean loops and stuff then i can definitely see why you would make ur own.

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