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Originally posted by mfitterer1 This is the problem; not everyone has realized that prog trance IS trance now. I love GOOD epic/euphoric but if you follow the scene closely you'll realize there is VERY little of it. There is TONS of really good prog. So people just need to learn that epic/euphoric is dead (mainly because it's been beat to death and is structurally predictable and boring)

Couldnt have put it better myself!

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Originally posted by Nightshift Because every track and their mom's track gets played on ASOT whether its good or not. ASOT is boring and just ruins the good tracks imo. Global DJ Broadcast FTW. However this is all left to taste.

To be fair ASOT and GDJB are becoming the same thing. Armin sold out years ago; and Markus just started. I miss the old Markus. Now he is only worried about rising in the polls and his sets mainly consist of overplaying his own tracks. His sound, his radio show have completely changed over the last 2 years (for the worst imo).

It's not the music these shows play; it's what they're trying to accomplish with them. You can tell it's promotion central. There's rarely a vibe or collective offering put together by the tracks. It's usually just putting out all their new promos mixed in with their personal productions of the moment. Every set is stale now. Didn't use to be like this. And in Armin's case; he just plays some fluffy ass shat epic/euphoric. His prog he plays is pretty good. In Markus case he buried his roots and is selling out for that number spot just like AVB did years ago.

FUCK SELL OUTS!

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Originally posted by Kysora People complaining about trance not focusing on percussion is completely asinine. Most producers don't focus on the perucssion because most listeners give it the same attention. As long as it serves as a formation for the bassline, the hooks, the overall sound, then there's no reason to go further than that. Though plenty producers still do. And yeah, trance is, IMO, better than it's ever been. The sound's changed for the most part but it's up to personal opinion as to whether or not it's better or worse, but musically trance has been doing some amazing things if you look beyond ASOT or the top 100 garbage. Also, Oceanlab is the only vocal trance you'll need.

You are a muppet! You don't know it but percussion is the biggest most important aspect to making the track ultra danceable. Most listeners aren't listening to the percussion; but it's moving them. Good perc makes the track float along and makes it less stagnant. I can't believe you'd even consider perc unimportant. That's the thing that made SvD stick out so much to me (and others) when he came out with his first album. His percussion was amazing, and very unique.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 To be fair ASOT and GDJB are becoming the same thing. Armin sold out years ago; and Markus just started. I miss the old Markus. Now he is only worried about rising in the polls and his sets mainly consist of overplaying his own tracks. His sound, his radio show have completely changed over the last 2 years (for the worst imo). It's not the music these shows play; it's what they're trying to accomplish with them. You can tell it's promotion central. There's rarely a vibe or collective offering put together by the tracks. It's usually just putting out all their new promos mixed in with their personal productions of the moment. Every set is stale now. Didn't use to be like this. And in Armin's case; he just plays some fluffy ass shat epic/euphoric. His prog he plays is pretty good. In Markus case he buried his roots and is selling out for that number spot just like AVB did years ago. FUCK SELL OUTS!

Yeah tis true markus is coming to the edge of being a sellout.

HOWEVER, his world tour episodes are bad ass.

Do you listen to etn.fm?

they got some cool radio shows on there.

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Originally posted by Kysora I'm not saying it's not important at all, but complexity and variety in the percussion line is not something that's realistically important. If a song is well written, has a catchy/epic/emotional melody (or whatever you're going for) and harmonically supports it well, nobody's going to bash it because the percussion didn't vary outside what most people already expect from trance.

D'OH!

The only thing wrong with trance is statements like this. I assure you all this is commonplace opinion unfortunately

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Originally posted by Nightshift Yeah tis true markus is coming to the edge of being a sellout. HOWEVER, his world tour episodes are bad ass. Do you listen to etn.fm? they got some cool radio shows on there.

He still has some good shows but he isn't different from every other radio show anymore like he used to be. He used to play all new stuff all the time and it was awesome. Ever since he debuted Nothing At All back in Spring it's been constant ridiculousness.

I unfortunately don't listen to radio shows anymore. I find it just ruins tracks for me. I stay way excited for making my mixes if I don't listen to anything else and it leaves more time for production. I just don't want to be influenced like all of these people I used to respect have been.

I have started to listen to a lot of tech and house sets though. I find I take it in a lot better when I don't know any of the tracks being used.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 The problem has nothing to do with the SOUNDS used; it's the way people are composing with them. Your idealism has no point being raised in this thread.

most good tracks out there that are well composed and well thought out have poeple all over the world either dancing to them or playing in thier bedrooms for all to enjoy true enough and at no point was it said otherwise.

but as that old saying goes here today and forgotten tomorrow!

[QUOTE..mfitterer1 The problem has nothing to do with the SOUNDS used; it's the way people are composing with them.


[QUOTE} and yet the genral fealing is that for the most part good tunes are still being made so why then if not because of copy cat sound design is that so?

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 I take it in a lot better when I don't know any of the tracks being used.

same for me, i mean i dont listen to radio shows often, i only put on etn.fm when i sleep and occasionally download a radio show or a promo to listen to maybe once every two weeks. it gets pretty old hearing the same songs in the mix just in different orders.

but i absolutley LOVE Pedro del Mar's Mellomania Delux radio show. If i catch that show when im about to sleep i know its about to be a good sleep. lol.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 You are a muppet! You don't know it but percussion is the biggest most important aspect to making the track ultra danceable.

When did a track being ultra danceable become the biggest most important aspect to trance?

I don't listen to trance to dance to it, I listen to it because people like Andy Blueman, Adam Nickey, Oceania, Arctic Moon, Ferry Tayle, stop me at any time, they're all great songwriters, and not for their percussion lines.

I already said, it's all based on opinion. If you want to like music because it's danceable, good for you, but for those of us who like music for the sake of music, the percussion in trance really isn't important.

You just have to stick to listening to the good ones. Most are crap, but even in the crap there's sometimes good.

Kysora is basically right, mainstream trance stopped being dance music quite a while ago. The listeners now like it mainly for the melodies and silky saw timbres that it provides, not for getting up and dancing. This generation of trance fans was raised on downloading MP3s from Napster and listening to ASOT and GDJB from the comfort of their bedroom computer chair, not on having a club or festival be their first exposure to the music.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Kysora is basically right, mainstream trance stop being dance music quite a while ago. The listeners now like it mainly for the melodies and silky saw timbres that it provides, not for getting up and dancing. This generation of trance fans was raised on downloading MP3s from Napster and listening to ASOT and GDJB from the comfort of their bedroom computer chair, not on having a club or festival be their first exposure to the music.

sooo true. When I listen to ASOT 2007 I don't feel like dancing or anything, I just like listening. Of course it's the opposite when I listen to something from the late 90's and early 00's.

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Originally posted by Kysora When did a track being ultra danceable become the biggest most important aspect to trance?

The mind boggles.

I guess you're right about trance today, but... ugh. If I just want ear candy, I can think of so many better "songwriters" to listen to.

I think that the really great tracks are both. Maybe you need to go to other genres for that. I can pick out so many tracks and sets that are totally listenable at home/work but would still make everybody go nuts on the dance floor.

The way the new generation of trance fans got into the music also explains why there are now so many trance producers who have never set foot in a club, and who think that percussion is unimportant. For them it is all about the uplifting melodies that they soak up through their headphones plugged into their computer at home, not dancing or communal events or cutting loose or any of that.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The way the new generation of trance fans got into the music also explains why there are now so many trance producers who have never set foot in a club, and who think that percussion is unimportant. For them it is all about the uplifting melodies that they soak up through their headphones plugged into their computer at home, not dancing or communal events or cutting loose or any of that.

I understand that, but I also think it's sad, first of all because it's such a simplistic form of music to listen to that way that it's like limiting your reading to trashy sci-fi or romance novels, and second because that music pervades into the clubs through bedroom DJs and Arminesque egomaniacs pandering to unsophisticated clubbers, and results in the same kinds of parties I thoroughly ripped on in the previous thread (ones where people just stand around, bob their heads and wave their hands in the air... blecch).

It may not be deliberate, these people may tell themselves that the music is directed at a different audience, but it's still largely responsible for wrecking the scene by virtue of association and confusion.

Trance isn't dead. I think we are all just getting a bit too old. Some of us may be getting a little to lazy to dig for quality tunes, but they are still out there. It's the same with every other genre. I've been hearing this trance is dead shit since I started listening to trance and that was a long time ago.

Take my dad for instance, all he listens to is music from his generation, artists such as, ottis redding, percy sledge, al green, and wilson picket. He is stuck in that generation and cannot appreciate what that music has evolved into. I think many of you are stuck in the past and can't accept how trance is evolving. Just like my dad thinks todays music is garbage, you think todays trance is garbage....which is not true. Alot of those tunes you were listening to were probably back in your raver day's and hold much more meaning than the tracks you are hearing today.

Hopefully this rant makes sense. I'm about a bottle wine down right know.

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Originally posted by Bayou Boy Trance isn't dead. I think we are all just getting a bit too old. Some of us may be getting a little to lazy to dig for quality tunes, but they are still out there. It's the same with every other genre. I've been hearing this trance is dead shit since I started listening to trance and that was a long time ago. Take my dad for instance, all he listens to is music from his generation, artists such as, ottis redding, percy sledge, al green, and wilson picket. He is stuck in that generation and cannot appreciate what that music has evolved into. I think many of you are stuck in the past and can't accept how trance is evolving. Just like my dad thinks todays music is garbage, you think todays trance is garbage....which is not true. Alot of those tunes you were listening to were probably back in your raver day's and hold much more meaning than the tracks you are hearing today.

The problem with this argument is that I am finding plenty of great recent music that holds meaning for me. I am just not finding it in current trance for the most part anymore. It's not that I'm sick of new music as a whole.

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Originally posted by Kysora When did a track being ultra danceable become the biggest most important aspect to trance? I don't listen to trance to dance to it, I listen to it because people like Andy Blueman, Adam Nickey, Oceania, Arctic Moon, Ferry Tayle, stop me at any time, they're all great songwriters, and not for their percussion lines. I already said, it's all based on opinion. If you want to like music because it's danceable, good for you, but for those of us who like music for the sake of music, the percussion in trance really isn't important.

Are you fucking serious?!?! Did you forget trance is dance music!? That means it's supposed to make people dance. I like music for all sorts of reasons but we are talking about PRODUCING trance. Producing trance is once again SUPPOSED TO MAKE PEOPLE DANCE!

And I see why you think the way you do; you listen to dead ass epic/euphoric. How do you listen to the same fucking sounds, the same progressions; the same loops over and over and still enjoy it? Those producers you just listed are what have created the problem that is creating the transition into prog becoming trance.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Kysora is basically right, mainstream trance stopped being dance music quite a while ago. The listeners now like it mainly for the melodies and silky saw timbres that it provides, not for getting up and dancing. This generation of trance fans was raised on downloading MP3s from Napster and listening to ASOT and GDJB from the comfort of their bedroom computer chair, not on having a club or festival be their first exposure to the music.

So that means that everyone here who STILL produces trance should go with the trends and make un-danceable music? No; you say fuck the idiots that are screwing everything up and you collect their checks! Doing things wrong is no excuse because others do it.

If people want to make that shit they need to start a new genre; call it cloudwalking or some shit roffl.

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Originally posted by DigiNut The mind boggles. I guess you're right about trance today, but... ugh. If I just want ear candy, I can think of so many better "songwriters" to listen to. I think that the really great tracks are both. Maybe you need to go to other genres for that. I can pick out so many tracks and sets that are totally listenable at home/work but would still make everybody go nuts on the dance floor.

The really great tracks ARE both. Same with dj sets. The reason I picked trance over all the other genres I enjoy is because it can provide enjoyment with the same songs in the same order in the same context in the club as in private quarters. It allows you to take in the music for whatever you want it to be.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The problem with this argument is that I am finding plenty of great recent music that holds meaning for me. I am just not finding it in current trance for the most part anymore. It's not that I'm sick of new music as a whole.

Ditto. Techno, breaks, and D'n'B have gotten awesome lately. And I still listen to some ambient/chillout from time to time, and house is most of what they play in the clubs. So really, trance is the only genre out of all electronic music that I haven't been able to find a place for, lol.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 So that means that everyone here who STILL produces trance should go with the trends and make un-danceable music? No; you say fuck the idiots that are screwing everything up and you collect their checks! Doing things wrong is no excuse because others do it. If people want to make that shit they need to start a new genre; call it cloudwalking or some shit roffl.

I think a lot of trance producers would do just as well making some kind of uplifting ambient or chillout music, and simply forgetting the whole "dance" aspect of it, since it is really kind of slipping out of the music anyway.

Anyway, I was trying to explain the trend, not support it.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think a lot of trance producers would do just as well making some kind of uplifting ambient or chillout music, and simply forgetting the whole "dance" aspect of it, since it is really kind of slipping out of the music anyway. Anyway, I was trying to explain the trend, not support it.

I def wasn't going off on you it just gets me heated thinking about this shit lol.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora When did a track being ultra danceable become the biggest most important aspect to trance?

I dont want to get off on a rant here ,but....



I'm sorry, but this stuff is called electronic DANCE music, not electronic listening music, or electronic headphone music or electronic computer music!!

It is made for dancing. That's the whole point! It is supposed to make you move! Implying that being dancable or having good percussion is unimportant is akin to saying that 4 tires and a steering wheel is unimportant to on a car. Is it still a car if it doesnt have those things?

The point of a car is to provide a means of getting you from one place to another. The point of this music is to make you DANCE! Everything else is a secondary consideration. If you want music that's good for home listening then take a look at ambient, that's pretty good for listening at home or on headphones.

Maybe I'm just old, but I grew up going to warehouse parties on the fringes of town, clubs in the seedier parts of the city and raves in the middle of nowhere. This is where you learn what this music is supposed to be about. THIS is the root of this music, THIS is the "movement" that drew a lot of us into this. Running around in some dark room or some field somewhere, 4/4 kick drums pounding out of huge PA speakers, the DJ sitting in some corner having just as much fun as you WITHOUT acting like he is Jesus Christ.

Maybe this got lost along the way somewhere, and maybe this is one of the reasons why some kids these days just don't get it. Maybe some people need to go back and learn WHY this music is, and what it is truly all about, because I can tell you that superstar DJs with their hands in the air playing to arena sized crowds is NOT what this music was intended to be about. I hate seeing huge stages with 20,000 people watching one guy with a tiny setup in the middle of a huge stage. its just not right. You need to have a small club with a few hundred people, or a field in the middle of nowhere, going crazy to pounding grooves at 4 AM and not paying one bit of attention to the person who just happens to be playing the music.

Maybe thats part of the reason why other genres have such a hard time taking trance-heads seriously. Look at other genres and you dont see that shit. I love trance, I really do, but what it has become as of late just turns my stomach, makes me absolutely sick, because it has lost its ROOTS.

I'm sorry, I usually dont like to get involved in discussions like this, but that has to be once of the most fucked up things I have ever heard. Electronic dance music doesn't have to be dancable????? That's just crazy.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The problem with this argument is that I am finding plenty of great recent music that holds meaning for me. I am just not finding it in current trance for the most part anymore. It's not that I'm sick of new music as a whole.

Maybe you feel this way to, but I find the older I get the more diverse I get. I used to only listen to trance exclusively, but now I run the gambit. I don't even care about being a trainspotter like I used to be. I'm just happy to hear good music when ever I get the chance. I'm from south Louisiana...so in one day I might be listening to swamp pop, house, zydeco, and trance. It just depends on where I go. I actually like it much better now because I'll take a break from trance, not on purpose, but just because I'm into something else at the moment and then...bang...I hear some trance tune that blows me away and I'm back into it. C'mon man there has to be some current trance tune that you dig??????

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