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-- Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?
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theres always been shit, theres no change there. i like the digital era it has helped me find alot of tracks i never would on vinyl. i just wish that vinyl would take the fight and lower their prices so i could have best of both worlds like its now i dont bother buying one track for 15USD, fuck that. thats what an entire album should cost. its all about money for me and singles shouldnt be expensive, and mp3 has done something right there.

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Originally posted by SPAWNmaster Not trying to be argumentative, but out of curiosity what makes you say that? I'd say quite a number of the vinyl purists out there, as a primary argument, would say it's the sound, warmth and physical feel that cannot be reproduced rather than some symbolic representation of "what once was". At the end of the day, drunk people want to get loose and dance to good music. Symbology and philosophy are reserved for the personal experience of the DJ himself.

i think the sound quality argument is moot, but that's another thread. physical medium, etc i agree with.

it's not coincidence that the older djs are still playing vinyl, and the new kids aren't bothering... that was my point.

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty Does anyone else tire of the "music has lost it's value because there's more of it for cheaper" argument that inevitably shows up when threads like these surface every 2 months? You still have to "dig through crates" albeit digital ones, and you can still end up finding that one "gem." Granted, there is much more material to sift through, but for a truly dedicated person who wants to spend the time to find it, that opportunity is still there. If anything, the gems are harder to find now that there are even more layers of crap covering them, thus making them more valuable in the eyes of those that base the quality of their music solely on how much they paid for it and how hard it was to find. Don't blame the medium to cover the fact that you're settling for shit music just because it's available with the click of a button. Good music is still being made, and will continue to be made regardless of what medium is en vogue.

I get what you;re saying and it;s partially right but the part that's not is thet vinyl DID have an inherant quality control due to the manufacturing costs of the medium. When it costs you $1000+ to press 500 vinyl, you're going to make damn sure that you're putting out the best you can.

With so many digital startup labels (that in so many cases have no clue) putting absolute garbage because it costs nothing to do so, it means EDM as a whole is a cesspit of tracks that should never have seen the light of day with a (very) few glimmering gems floating about. Yes, you have to dig to find them, but I'd prefer not to have to and I swear getting on a train, going to my local record store and spending an afternoon going through piles of vinyl was still less time consuming but far more rewarding.


I heve to say that even though the range is larger with mp3, I never had a problem finding enough vinyl choons to fill a box and most of those would be better production (both musically and sonically) that what i can get now.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I get what you;re saying and it;s partially right but the part that's not is thet vinyl DID have an inherant quality control due to the manufacturing costs of the medium. When it costs you $1000+ to press 500 vinyl, you're going to make damn sure that you're putting out the best you can.

To a point I suppose, but if that were the case then you wouldn't need to dig for tunes since every vinyl would be of a baseline quality; which is obviously not true as there are/were a great many crap tunes/labels pressed to vinyl.

I do agree that the level of crap has risen drastically with the ease of digital distribution, but so to has the previously undiscovered artists that may have never seen the light of day due to the high cost of entry to publish their tracks.

Well, I'm not only just a DJ but I'm also a collector of fine arts. Imo, to buy a cheap 1 buck down load would be the same as me buying a copy of The Last Super, for 5 bucks, off the internet. Yeah, I have the picture but does it really have value?? Not really. I feel the same way for downloads. When I buy music, I want product. But what ever floats your boat, I guess.

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Originally posted by woscar So what do you do if there's an absolutely amazing track that you want to get and play, but alas...it's only available digitally?

I'll buy another track. Luckily, I haven't found much of anything worth buying off of digital sites. There is one song...but I'll live without it. I'll step out of the EDM scene before I start buying downloads. But in a way, it's been kind of bad on vinyl sites, too. Yeah, you have ok songs but nothing that makes me say that I have to have that song. Nothing that makes me go "Wow!". To me, trance as a whole has lost it's soul. There are a few good tracks out there but still...not enough...And enough with these silly producers trying to turn trance into singing vocal pop shit...I won't mention any names...

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Originally posted by Stormbringer The Last Super

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Originally posted by Stormbringer Well, I'm not only just a DJ but I'm also a collector of fine arts. Imo, to buy a cheap 1 buck down load would be the same as me buying a copy of The Last Super, for 5 bucks, off the internet. Yeah, I have the picture but does it really have value?? Not really. I feel the same way for downloads. When I buy music, I want product. But what ever floats your boat, I guess.

If a song is good, then it should stand on it's own. It doesn't matter if it's on vinyl, cd, mp3, DAT, or whatever. Don't confuse having a tangible product with having a quality tune. Value is relative, and humans have trouble associating value with intangible things (the beauty of a picture, the quality of a song). Do you value what comes out of your speakers or what you can hold in your hand?

If your last supper analogy were true, then the vinyl you buy would also be a "copy," as the only original would be the master track on tape/digital file, whichever the vinyl was cut from.

just buy on vinyl...rip...then taste to your own digital delight...best of all words

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty If a song is good, then it should stand on it's own. It doesn't matter if it's on vinyl, cd, mp3, DAT, or whatever.

To me it does. Like I said, I collect great music on vinyl and even CD, if I have to. A down load is not worth wasting my time on. Example: Baseball Cards. What would you rather have?? A download of a rookie hall of famer's baseball card?? Or the baseball card itself?

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty Don't confuse having a tangible product with having a quality tune.

I'm not. I want both if I'm gonna be spending money. Example: Take Timo Maas & Gary D - Die Herdplatte 1995. Well, in 1995, I bought that on a promo. I want the 1995 released version. Never did buy it for some reason. Well, instead of buying it on trackitdown, I would rather buy the "released" 12 inch copy from Germany. I plan to do that soon. And if you're talking about quality tunes. Haven't found much on sites like beatport or trackitdown....except for a few classic tunes and a few new tunes. And I can already get the "few good tunes" on vinyl, already. Except for one. But I'll live without that one. The rest sounds like the same ol commercial sounding trance that I used to see on MTV in Europe back in the 90s. I would rather spend my time going back and buy great older tunes, that I haven't heard before, on vinyl or CD than to buy new tunes...that really aren't that great...

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty Value is relative, and humans have trouble associating value with intangible things (the beauty of a picture, the quality of a song). Do you value what comes out of your speakers or what you can hold in your hand?

Both...I want it all..or nothing at all...It ain't worth buying just the sleeve..(you should know what I really mean..I hope I don't have to go back and explain it to you)

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty If your last supper analogy were true, then the vinyl you buy would also be a "copy," as the only original would be the master track on tape/digital file, whichever the vinyl was cut from.

I meant it was "like". Not that it was the same thing. Ok, how this? "To me" to buy a down load is like buying a moped instead of a Harley Davidson. Yeah, a moped is cheaper and more economical..but it ain't the same thing. Not even close..

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Originally posted by i got big pants just buy on vinyl...rip...then taste to your own digital delight...best of all words

That's cool to me. I personally won't do that very much because "to me" to see a DJ without a pair of vinyl turntables is like watching Neil Pert (greatest rock in roll drummer of all times..imo..), from Rush, doing his drumming on ableton, instead of using a real drum set...How fun would that be to watch? But maybe that's just me...

There are still so many classic tracks out there that are only available on vinyl. And hell, have you ever held a record? Just in the sleeve + cover. It's a piece of art! It's a great thing to collect

Fuck the equipment and how its done.
It does not matter if your tunes are shit.

Chicken or egg?

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Originally posted by Stormbringer To me it does. Like I said, I collect great music on vinyl and even CD, if I have to. A down load is not worth wasting my time on. Example: Baseball Cards. What would you rather have?? A download of a rookie hall of famer's baseball card?? Or the baseball card itself? I'm not. I want both if I'm gonna be spending money. Example: Take Timo Maas & Gary D - Die Herdplatte 1995. Well, in 1995, I bought that on a promo. I want the 1995 released version. Never did buy it for some reason. Well, instead of buying it on trackitdown, I would rather buy the "released" 12 inch copy from Germany. I plan to do that soon. And if you're talking about quality tunes. Haven't found much on sites like beatport or trackitdown....except for a few classic tunes and a few new tunes. And I can already get the "few good tunes" on vinyl, already. Except for one. But I'll live without that one. The rest sounds like the same ol commercial sounding trance that I used to see on MTV in Europe back in the 90s. I would rather spend my time going back and buy great older tunes, that I haven't heard before, on vinyl or CD than to buy new tunes...that really aren't that great... Both...I want it all..or nothing at all...It ain't worth buying just the sleeve..(you should know what I really mean..I hope I don't have to go back and explain it to you) I meant it was "like". Not that it was the same thing. Ok, how this? "To me" to buy a down load is like buying a moped instead of a Harley Davidson. Yeah, a moped is cheaper and more economical..but it ain't the same thing. Not even close.. That's cool to me. I personally won't do that very much because "to me" to see a DJ without a pair of vinyl turntables is like watching Neil Pert (greatest rock in roll drummer of all times..imo..), from Rush, doing his drumming on ableton, instead of using a real drum set...How fun would that be to watch? But maybe that's just me...

Your analogies tell me that you really value the object over the music. Baseball cards are made to be collectibles. They have little to no value (unless you're counting the artistic merit of the photograph ), and don't really do anything other than 'be a baseball card.'

Tangible music media can be just as collectible of course, and I'm not seeking to argue that point. If collecting records is your thing, that's great and I wouldn't seek to diminish the feeling you get from being able to hold, display, and interact with that media. However, you seem to dismiss the fact that there is also inherent artistic value in the music contained on that media that can be faithfully represented across different media types. Just because someone doesn't value the collecting aspect doesn't mean that the feeling they get from experiencing the music is diminished in any way. I am aware of the sonic differences between vinyl and other media and it has been argued to death on these forums so I don't intend to regurgitate it all. I can still fully enjoy Atom Heart Mother streaming from my media center, and appreciate the fact that I don't have to dig the vinyl out of my parent's attic.

Point is, if you're really in it for the music, medium doesn't matter. And from your post, if you go to 'see' the (superstar!)DJ rather than hear the music, then maybe you are just in it for different reasons... and that's fine. Diff'rent strokes and all.

I think I understand Stormbringer quite well. It's not about collecting records for simply the porpose of collecting them. The thing is, that some tracks are just so good that I want to have them as a hard copy.

You can compare it with religion: Why building a church, when having faith in god is the only thing that matters?
It is as if you connect closer to something when you can see and touch it. In this meaning having the bible as e-book is the same stuff. I simply like much more to read a physical book instead of a pdf file on my pda or laptop, although the content is the same.

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Originally posted by DJSoulstone I think I understand Stormbringer quite well. It's not about collecting records for simply the porpose of collecting them. The thing is, that some tracks are just so good that I want to have them as a hard copy. You can compare it with religion: Why building a church, when having faith in god is the only thing that matters? It is as if you connect closer to something when you can see and touch it. In this meaning having the bible as e-book is the same stuff. I simply like much more to read a physical book instead of a pdf file on my pda or laptop, although the content is the same.

Yes, that is exactly it. Couldn't have said it better, myself. Obviously.

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Originally posted by Lews There are still so many classic tracks out there that are only available on vinyl. And hell, have you ever held a record? Just in the sleeve + cover. It's a piece of art! It's a great thing to collect

I am SO feeling you on this!

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Originally posted by Gen3r4l1ty Your analogies tell me that you really value the object over the music. Baseball cards are made to be collectibles. They have little to no value (unless you're counting the artistic merit of the photograph ), and don't really do anything other than 'be a baseball card.' Point is, if you're really in it for the music, medium doesn't matter. And from your post, if you go to 'see' the (superstar!)DJ rather than hear the music, then maybe you are just in it for different reasons... and that's fine. Diff'rent strokes and all.

lol...you are so WAY off. I am so against the grain of the "new school\"I think DJ Mag is the best thing ever " main stream ravers, it's not even funny. I'm in it to see if I can help do my little part to bring the scene to where it was, back to it's underground glory days. For the most part, I hate the mainstream DJs and mainstream sounding music. I hate where most of today's trance seems to be going. Fuckin' singing, vocal pop music. But that's a whole different topic. The point is that I've been in it for the music since 1988/1989. I really don't need some new kid telling me what I'm in this thing for. I know what I'm in this for, thank you.

This has become sad. Here's how easy it is to become a DJ "thanks to today's supposed evolution of DJing". I say some things were never meant to be touched. I got this off of trance.nu

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/706...kind_is_dj.html
Here are just a few quotes, listed below...

"R tan" of of trance.nu - This shows that anyone can play around. It's that easy now-a-days. Not that clear example but it's just to give you an idea

"DKG" of of trance.nu - yea computers were the worst idea when it came to djing. Seriously anyone can dj now and it takes all the skill out of what was a very hard and respectable line of work, its weak. Kids at parties are like "oh you dj? ME TOO! i downloaded a free program off the net". Fuck that.

- Yea, last time i saw pvd he didnt even mix live. just a jukebox with effects. why the hell would i pay to see that again? Thats like going to see a band and they dont even play their instruments.

"fudd" off of trance.nu - I do not agree with your second half of the statement. having learned to beat match with vinyl & having played around with these programs, the programs really do make it exponentially easier to sound like a beat matching god without having any talent or ability to do so without the assistance of an executable program. Also - these programs allow the user to just drop the track wherever they want. this ignores the second number 1 rule to deejaying: know your tracks...

"gavon" off of trance.nu - This is video signals the end of DJing..

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Originally posted by Stormbringer This has become sad. Here's how easy it is to become a DJ "thanks to today's supposed evolution of DJing". I say some things were never meant to be touched. I got this off of trance.nu http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/706...kind_is_dj.html Here are just a few quotes, listed below... "R tan" of of trance.nu - This shows that anyone can play around. It's that easy now-a-days. Not that clear example but it's just to give you an idea "DKG" of of trance.nu - yea computers were the worst idea when it came to djing. Seriously anyone can dj now and it takes all the skill out of what was a very hard and respectable line of work, its weak. Kids at parties are like "oh you dj? ME TOO! i downloaded a free program off the net". Fuck that. - Yea, last time i saw pvd he didnt even mix live. just a jukebox with effects. why the hell would i pay to see that again? Thats like going to see a band and they dont even play their instruments. "fudd" off of trance.nu - I do not agree with your second half of the statement. having learned to beat match with vinyl & having played around with these programs, the programs really do make it exponentially easier to sound like a beat matching god without having any talent or ability to do so without the assistance of an executable program. Also - these programs allow the user to just drop the track wherever they want. this ignores the second number 1 rule to deejaying: know your tracks... "gavon" off of trance.nu - This is video signals the end of DJing..

Personally I don't believe any of that, I use both and have done for a long time. It really doesn't matter what you use, it's how you use it and what's inside your head that counts.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

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