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-- Spread some Christmas cheer
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Originally posted by Theresa You have to consider their socialization, the fact that they don't live in possession obsessed societies, the fact that they don't have a million pressures on them day to day to work faster, harder, more efficiently in a world that seems to just zip by. Westerners are some of the unhappiest people in the world because they have pretty much become machines. Little time to be with family, little time to sleep or wind down, compounding pressures to perform and have "stuff" that people judge and base your worth upon. A cultural obsession with appearance and social status etc. etc. So while I will agree that there are a lot of unhappy people with everything they could possibly need who should appreciate what they do have, the context that the statement was made in was stupid. When we're talking about people who don't have the things they need, telling them to suck it up and appreciate what they have is ridiculous. Sure, they may be or seem happier, but it doesn't mean their stomachs aren't growling from hunger.

I know that most westerners are just cattle too foolish to question the logic of the culture they were born into. I don't begrudge them for it any more than I begrudge an ant for being an ant or a rock for being a rock. But that doesn't mean I would really doing them a favor by indulging their material obsessions; helping someone run on the hedonic treadmill is no help at all.

On the other hand it's certainly a different case when someone lacks a basic need. I have my doubts, however, that many of the recipients of such acts of "Christmas cheer" are indeed so situated.

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Originally posted by R!CH if you give your bf an brand new iphone, he'll love you for it for up to 90 days every time he looks at it, but after that time it just becomes his phone. the longest lasting gifts are the experiential ones. a $400 weekend getaway will last longer and mean more based upon the memories created than a $400 gadget. just some unrelated food for thought.

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. Happiness levels tend to normalise after 90 days, not gratitude. Gift giving has been an important aspect of social bonding since immemorial times, as any book published on this topic after Marcel Mauss' "The Gift" points out.

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Originally posted by Theresa Anyway, I am not disagreeing with the overall idea... I just think you are applying it to the wrong situations. People who have what they need should appreciate what they have. People who are going hungry and suffering with various problems shouldn't simply be expected to do the same, and then be used as an excuse not to help them out when you can.

well i'm not suggesting your gesture to feed the hungry and homeless is pointless or unhelpful. if that's what you're doing, that's pretty cool and i hope the people who receive it can appreciate that. but giving gifts to poor people who are asking for it over the internet, that's a real headscratcher to me. subsistently poor people who have a computer and internet probably have a bunch of other things they don't need like a tv with a cable package and a fridge full of alcohol. those people are probably fishing for hand outs, expecting them, and not really concerned with who it comes from or when. i doubt they are in as desperate a situation as they sell themselves to be. i could be wrong. then again, i could copy that ad and see what comes my way.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. Happiness levels tend to normalise after 90 days, not gratitude. Gift giving has been an important aspect of social bonding since immemorial times, as any book published on this topic after Marcel Mauss' "The Gift" points out.

i'm sorry but is that last statement somehow supposed to validate the first?

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Originally posted by R!CH i'm sorry but is that last statement somehow supposed to validate the first?

No, they work together, but they're independent from one another: I first just pointed out that what you said is a misreading of the current psychology research on happiness; and the second is about a long-standing tradition in social studies about the importance of gift giving.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH right but any time i start to feel unhappy or unfortunate about anything, say a speeding ticket or getting my wallet stolen, all i have to think back to is all the things that haven't happened to me. i have all my fingers and toes, arms and legs, sanity, freedom, health, memories, consciousness, life, etc... while there are others who are paraplegic, schizophrenic, imprisoned, terminally ill, demented, retarded, comatose, deformed and dead. it really puts my troubles into perspective every time. i'm sure this mindset could help most poor people out there. feeling sorry for yourself doesn't ever help your situation.

Your problem is you don't understand people and their problems. But that's ok.



Also ROFL @ Rand comic. Lmfao.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Say that to a single mom who can barely afford to give her kids food every day or the homeless man sleeping under the bridge in -46 degree weather or the people who are starving to death in 3rd world countries. It's hard to be happy when you can't even get your basic needs. Only someone who has never experienced being without would say something as silly as that.

do you ever notice that most homeless people are fat? or that the people that tend to use the foodbank are fat?

isnt that ironic? you would think underprivilidged people would be frail and hungry.

Welcome to north america..

to some extent I do agree with some point R!ch is making here. Happiness is what matters in the end. Theressa's gesture is very thoughtful, even if it brings warmth into the souls of those in need, even if it's a temporary relief, a relief is better than no relief at all.

True happiness vs. materialism

People find happiness in different aspects in life. Some are happy to spend time with the loved ones and be healthy, it fulfills the soul. Let's be honest, IF you're not healthy, you sure as hell aren't happy.

Most less $$$$ fortunate folks take happiness in the matter of family unity, laughter, a good time enough to be a memory worth remembering and laugh back.
Those living under corrupt regimes and continuously suffer do need to know that someone can help them, makes them feel better and gives them a lapse of looking at the hard times they're living; if you get, you must give.

Which leads to materialism and selfishness which we're plenty of. The exchange of consumables(gifts with temporary to no value) has taken over the whole holiday spirit to a whole new level of ridiculous behaviors; Everybody must give and receive items of monetary value because frankly, the higher the price tag the higher the level of satisfaction of the receiver; especially in the big cities, since talk of them came up.
Most folks only seem to care of people in their social circle and nothing more; everything else ghosts out.

The mindset topic.
Yeah, that's the key to most problems; but the solution is not to start thinking of all the negatives and instead to think positive, and scouter to the next feasible solutions.

People worthy of making change need a little push to get themselves going again. People worthy of changing refusing to change deserve no sympathy and deserve the sorry ass life they've made for themselves, yeah I'm talking about some lazy ass begger bums.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit do you ever notice that most homeless people are fat? or that the people that tend to use the foodbank are fat? isnt that ironic? you would think underprivilidged people would be frail and hungry.

Actually, Karim, junk food is cheaper. Therefore, the less money you have, the more you need to rely on it... and, consequently, the fatter you get.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Actually, Karim, junk food is cheaper. Therefore, the less money you have, the more you need to rely on it... and, consequently, the fatter you get.

And the more unhealthy you get, making you more likely to take sick days, become stressed and have stress related illnesses and overall have a lower quality of living.

because knowledge is power!

that was so the place for it.

Honestly though Karim, I know people here and seeing north america, it would be so easy for them to eat out every single day on not a lot of money and on total junk. It's a shame because when i went to both the stores & farmers market, i could live just on that fresh produce alone, with only a slight urge for fast food if i was in a rush. Most of the places smelled awful and looked greasy, although we did find one good cafe-type chain that did an awesome burger which actually resembled the minced beef it came from!

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Actually, Karim, junk food is cheaper. Therefore, the less money you have, the more you need to rely on it... and, consequently, the fatter you get.

That doesn't really follow.

Weight gain is a relatively simple matter of caloric intake versus expenditure. If the foods most economically available to you happen to be particularly calorie-dense, as is the case for the poor here in the west, then you can simply consume less of them, saving money while still still staving off hunger.

Those with such a surplus of resources that they can afford to waste money by purchasing a greater quantity of food than they need can hardly claim to fall into the category of people who cannot afford their basic needs. In such a case, providing them with even more resources that they can squander with their inefficient behavior seems to me to be an act of dubious value.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Actually, Karim, junk food is cheaper. Therefore, the less money you have, the more you need to rely on it... and, consequently, the fatter you get.

Is junk food or food that is not good for you really cheaper? Bags of chips, boxes of cookies, and processed foods are all quite expensive. Fresh veggies and fresh fruits are not expensive if you buy what's in season; at least in California this is true. I never bought groceries at home. Maybe fresh veggies and fruits are so much less expensive in California because they are grown nearby?

I think even fresh fish is less expensive than processed meat such as hot dogs.

<3 to Theresa in this thread.

Some of you talk of changing individual behaviour like it's as simple as flipping a light switch. When in reality, you can't change individual behaviour without changing the world that we live in. Not the type of people we're talking about, anyway.

It's easy for advantaged people of relatively sound mind and body, with strong social supports and decent socioeconomic status to make such change...because we have the necessary resources and have grown up with a different lifestyle. Whereas the type of people we're talking about typically come from a long line of shit upbringing, shit support systems, shit coping skills, etc. When that's all you've ever known and you are constantly bombarded with different images of what it means to be happy, it's a lot harder to "just appreciate what you've got".

Honestly I think some of you need to get out more, lol. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter and put your money where your mouth is.

That all went without saying.

Really, Hal? Go fuck yourself.

Uh-ohh, where's Slylee to quote your post and :stongue your shit? OH GOD WHAT DO

Hey Hal, don't you work at a Hotel reservations desk or some shit? I certainly hope you never made fun of Jamie for that.

No, actually, I had nothing but relative things to talk to her about when it comes to hotels. I don't look down upon people for their profession, mostly because there's not much beneath me.

But it's sort of interesting how you try to get at me for that when you are constantly harassed on here for changing bedpans for a living. I know it's not true, but you're the last person I'd expect to subscribe to that sort of horseshit.

That wasn't what I was trying to do. But I appreciate your perception of things.

Ah, so you were just checking, then? Yep, no problems here, boss.

I'm glad everything is copacetic.

I was trying to make this a Christmas spite thread but you fucking ruined it with your power to shit rainbows made of sour skittles and newborn kittens. Great work, asshole.

You're just jealous you don't shit kittens.

Only because the adults give me hemorrhoids.

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