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-- Film Lounge Raided
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quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa +1... all of these guys defending the police are lucky they never had to deal with "out of line" behaviour. disgusting serpico style stories go on all the time... guess that means it's always been this way but doesn't mean we should sit on our thumb and accept it.

Attacking the police for every little misstep, real or imagined, only creates a boy-who-cried-wolf scenario, and makes it harder to draw attention to serious violations of rights or protocol.

We should be more concerned about RCMP officers who tase senior citizens to death and get off with a slap on the wrist (usually a short suspension with pay!). And with shadowy pseudo-governmental initiatives to circumvent constitutional protections as a matter of course, like racing laws (finally thrown out of court after how many years and how many suspensions?), or below-legal-BAC-limit arrests and suspensions.

The point is, it's precisely this "fuck the police" attitude that so often enables these patterns to continue; against a backdrop of constant outrage over seemingly trivial events, it's easy to label the more serious charges as mere shit-disturbing.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Attacking the police for every little misstep, real or imagined, only creates a boy-who-cried-wolf scenario, and makes it harder to draw attention to serious violations of rights or protocol. We should be more concerned about RCMP officers who tase senior citizens to death and get off with a slap on the wrist (usually a short suspension with pay!). And with shadowy pseudo-governmental initiatives to circumvent constitutional protections as a matter of course, like racing laws (finally thrown out of court after how many years and how many suspensions?), or below-legal-BAC-limit arrests and suspensions. The point is, it's precisely this "fuck the police" attitude that so often enables these patterns to continue; against a backdrop of constant outrage over seemingly trivial events, it's easy to label the more serious charges as mere shit-disturbing.

wow, i actually agreed with every word...i need to rethink my life now....

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear wow, i actually agreed with every word...i need to rethink my life now....

christmas does bring miracles!

you guys *might* want to actually learn the law and examine case history before flipping out.

you don't know if there was a warrant or not, what type of search was conducted (or even if everyone was searched), etc.

freedom from unreasonable search and seizure is not a limitless right (nothing contained in the Charter is limitless) and the expectation of privacy has contextual limits too.

being at home is different than being at school/work, at a border crossing, being incarcerated, etc. and if you don't think being in an establishment with a known history of violence, along with quite a few drug and weapons infractions, could be deemed a reasonable limit to those rights and expectations under the law, you're nuts...

RCMP/OPP officers can enter any nightclub premises without a warrant. They don't need a reason, but they must show identification (badge). Once inside, if they see anyone doing any illegal activity, not only will that person be subjected to a search, but can also get charged. The venue will also be charged. Toronto Police Officers on the other hand, need the permission of the Manager or the Owner of the nightclub in order to enter the premises.

Mark sum'd it up in his last sentence.

A drug bust at a Chinatown after-hours club where two shootings have occurred during recent years left 15 people in police bracelets yesterday.

Vice cops busted through the doors of Film Lounge, on Dundas St. W., west of Beverley St., at 2:30 a.m., 10 months after starting an undercover investigation into the alleged "drug den," said Det. Frank Giancola, of the Toronto Police.

"We've had many complaints where people were walking out of there in the early morning hours in a state of trance," Giancola said.

The club operates under a business licence, but no liquor licence. When it came to drinks, "all they were selling was water," Giancola said.

As for the rest of the menu, Giancola alleged people could buy ketamine, cocaine and methamphetamine.

"Drugs were strewn across the floor," he said of the moments after police entered with a search warrant. "Everybody tossed. Most of them did. We got 15 that didn't."

Though the club's website says it is open until 6 a.m., Giancola said his team decided to bust them early because they wanted to target staff. There were about 82 people in the club, which has a capacity for about 150.

The club has made it onto police radar in the past.

Between April 2004 and April 2005, two bouncers were injured in shootings outside the club. A drug investigation that culminated in April 2004 alleged Ecstasy pills were being sold there.

Customers and staff were charged yesterday with a range of offences, mostly related to drug trafficking.

Six people were held for bail hearings, while nine, including the owner, were released with future court dates.

Among those held in custody was a Malaysian man who had already been ordered to go home after immigration authorities found he was here illegally, Giancola said.

Now he's on the road to deportation.

Officers were still sorting through the seized drugs, but Giancola estimated the haul to be worth as much as $20,000.

"You couldn't walk on the floor without stepping on a vile of GHB," he said.


http://www.torontosun.com/news/toro...223896-sun.html

quote:

Originally posted by Iwasthere "We've had many complaints where people were walking out of there in the early morning hours in a state of trance," Giancola said.

NO WAY!

quote:

Originally posted by �Zm�zis RCMP/OPP can enter any club without a warrant, all they have to do is flash their badge. Once inside, if they suspect, or see anyone doing any illegal activity, not only will that person get charged but so will the venue. The person will also get searched. Toronto Police on the other hand need the permission of the Manager or the Owner of the club in order to enter the premises.

And thats fine.. there is nothing wrong with that. Its these over the top commando style raids that piss me off. Everyone gets shaken down to flush out the bad guys. I have a problem with this. As i said, send in the narcs and make your arrests. Sure its more work but THATS YOUR JOB.

Having the cops storm a public place, force everyone on the ground and then search everyone because they suspect that some people may have drugs is not the kind of society we should aspire to nor accept.

Ill never forget what happened at Republik which was such a royal fuck up on the part of the cops and the city that it was barely even reported. (which also raises my eyebrows i might add)

"Everybody tossed. Most of them did. We got 15 that didn't."

quote:

Originally posted by Iwasthere Among those held in custody was a Malaysian man who had already been ordered to go home after immigration authorities found he was here illegally, Giancola said.

i hope thats not one of the people that im thinking of....

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Having the cops storm a public place, force everyone on the ground and then search everyone because they suspect that some people may have drugs is not the kind of society we should aspire to nor accept.

Just like yourself, that I don't agree with.

quote:

"Everybody tossed. Most of them did. We got 15 that didn't."

since when is wanking a crime????????????????????

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkT
being in an establishment with a known history of violence, along with quite a few drug and weapons infractions/QUOTE]

Mark wins.

his is the exact reason why they are able to search anybody in these clubs. Good luck trying to convince a judge that the cop over-stepped the law by searching without good reason.

so by the tone of the detective everyone was searched and the 15 who didnt get rid of their drugs were the ones charged... as i said, shaking down the whole place to find the criminals.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker [QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkT being in an establishment with a known history of violence, along with quite a few drug and weapons infractions/QUOTE] Mark wins. his is the exact reason why they are able to search anybody in these clubs. Good luck trying to convince a judge that the cop over-stepped the law by searching without good reason.

so just being somewhere is good enough reason? thats scary!! i dont know what to say about this.

The staff arguement they use is weak too.. They could easily get the staff undercover as well. Make the buy, arrest them individually.

This whole thing makes me furious... and the fact that people are defending it.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker [QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkT being in an establishment with a known history of violence, along with quite a few drug and weapons infractions/QUOTE] Mark wins. his is the exact reason why they are able to search anybody in these clubs. Good luck trying to convince a judge that the cop over-stepped the law by searching without good reason.

so by that logic anyone in the Jane & Finch area can be searched ?

quote:

Originally posted by Iwasthere so by that logic anyone in the Jane & Finch area can be searched ?

exactly..

its unreal what people have been brainwashed to accept. Really... its frightening.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 exactly.. its unreal what people have been brainwashed to accept. Really... its frightening.

This is why when I get pulled over I only open my window slightly and would never allow them to search my car.

But I always see cops pulling people over front of Vola and searching their the whole car, because people get intimidated and scared.

Police will not always go by the rules guys, especially when it comes to drug related activity. You definitely are NOT supposed to be searched illegally, and the police are SUPPOSED to have reasonable cause to search you.

BUT.....police very often will do this anyway when it comes to drugs. They rely on you confessing, getting scared and narcing on someone else, or just pleading guilty quickly for a reduced sentence. They will even try to charge you with as many things as possible, mostly fabricated, hoping you plead to the lessor charges when they offer to drop the others. They know perfectly well that alot of these charges won't hold up in court, but they also know that most won't even get that far. They leave it to the courts to see whats legal or not, they really don't care if they think you're up to know good.

As for Film, I'm sure they searched everyone they wanted too. They had undercovers in there for months, so I'm sure they knew EXACTLY who they were looking for. And those would have other evidence already collected before the raid. As for the others that got charged, if they were just inside Film having a good time then they will probably get off the charges if they're smart enough to realize it was a illegal search (for them) and fight it.

Having been a resident DJ at Film for quite some time, I can honestly say that the ownership was DEFINITELY not invloved in drug dealing. I know it says the owner got charged, but I'll bet it was some minor possesion charge they're trying to stick on him. As much as some of you may not like the club, they did run it like a proper club and everything was above the board there. I know lots of people who love Film and didn't go there to get high, but went becasue of the music. As with most clubs in our scene, the Djs/music IS the draw for the crowd...not the drugs. Drug addicts don't pay $20 to go "pick up". Unfortunately, most people in our society don't understand why we like to dance all night to electronic music. They think it must be the drugs. They're wrong.

It's funny, they raided CZ thinking the ownership was invloved in drug dealing too. That wasn't the case either.

I'm no lawyer, or an expert in law in any sense, but my understanding of law is that it is based upon common sense, and being 'reasonable'

You're a cop and you make a drug bust at a club. You make several other busts at clubs. Would it be reasonable to believe that clubs have higher chance of being a place where drugs are found? And that you allocate resources accordingly to clubs because that's more likely place? And that people who frequent these clubs voluntarily have higher chance of associating with drug deals and whatnot?

You put yourself under suspicion moment you choose to associate yourself with certain groups, no matter how innocent or guilty you are.

Unless you're a complete numpty potatohead, you know there are drugs at clubs. So by agreeing to go to clubs, you put yourself voluntarily under suspicions.

i want to add one more thing

I have the utmost respect for cops. The cops who do their jobs right and respect those around them. I also know that a lot of what they do is just done by order. The real problem are the sergeants and chiefs that approve this shit, the politicians that apply the pressure to do so and ultimately THE FUCKING HALF WITS (meaning the general population) THAT ACCEPT THIS AND ALLOW EVERYONE TO GET AWAY WITH IT!

I swear I should get my letters templated since it seems i have to send them out weekly these days about the abuse of our rights and freedoms.

Yeah im pissed... in genuinely pissed...

quote:

Originally posted by �Zm�zis This is why when I get pulled over I only open my window slightly and would never allow them to search my car. But I always see cops pulling people over front of Vola and searching their the whole car, because people get intimidated and scared.

Police actually do have the right to search your car for certian driving related offences, especially drinking. But that's the car, not you personally.

Although they'll ask you......and most people say yes....

quote:

Originally posted by cammaxwell Police actually do have the right to search your car for certian driving related offences, especially drinking. But that's the car, not you personally. Although they'll ask you......and most people say yes....

They would have to first prove I was drinking. They can give me a breathalyzer test outside my car with my doors locked.

Most of the time, when the person is outside of his/her car speaking to one cop, the other cop will start searching the car behind the person, which is bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by cammaxwell I know lots of people who love Film and didn't go there to get high, but went beca[use] of the music. As with most clubs in our scene, the Djs/music IS the draw for the crowd...not the drugs.

+1.

quote:

Originally posted by �Zm�zis Most of the time, when the person is outside of his/her car speaking to one cop, the other cop will start searching the car behind the person.

This is exactly why if one ever gets into an unwanted situation with the police while driving one should plan to turn off the car, lock the doors, and put the keys in one's pocket if asked to step out of the vehicle. And, of course, verbally refuse (in a respectful way) to give consent to have the vehicle searched.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan I'm no lawyer, or an expert in law in any sense, but my understanding of law is that it is based upon common sense, and being 'reasonable' You're a cop and you make a drug bust at a club. You make several other busts at clubs. Would it be reasonable to believe that clubs have higher chance of being a place where drugs are found? And that you allocate resources accordingly to clubs because that's more likely place? And that people who frequent these clubs voluntarily have higher chance of associating with drug deals and whatnot? You put yourself under suspicion moment you choose to associate yourself with certain groups, no matter how innocent or guilty you are. Unless you're a complete numpty potatohead, you know there are drugs at clubs. So by agreeing to go to clubs, you put yourself voluntarily under suspicions.

reasonable means they smell booze on your breathe, or there is a smell of weed coming from your car, or the cops caught you in a lie. NOT being in a certain public place. So if im driving through a shady neighbourhood at 5 am do the police have reasonable ground to pull me over and search my car? I dont think so!!!

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