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It also has to be taken into consideration that what you experience when you're young, when everything is fresh, new and exciting will automatically skew your opinion into thinking that things were better back then.

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Originally posted by The Highroller It also has to be taken into consideration that what you experience when you're young, when everything is fresh, new and exciting will automatically skew your opinion into thinking that things were better back then.

Very much so.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno He's not talking about the same kind of Techno you're talking about.

Haha...

Maybe you should post a YouTube comparison???

I would but I'm at work and no embed on the iPhone...

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Originally posted by WittyHandle If you think what is out there now is the same as what we had available to us, I genuinely feel bad for you that you didn't see what it had to offer us at the time.

I'm turning 31 next month, I've been in it since 2000. Thats 10 years, I think it's enough to gauge things.

There is no doubt that having at least a dozen viable options every night and at least 2 or 3 on ANY GIVEN WEEKNIGHT was better.

as for the vibe etc its a matter of opinion. But when people showed up for the music instead of everything else, in my opinion, this was how parties became legendary.

I miss the days when you could go to Limelight on a WEDNESDAY and it was 3 floors of packed. (1500 people i think) They used to bring in DJs every week...

"those who know" know what im talking about

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Originally posted by malek I'm turning 31 next month, I've been in it since 2000. Thats 10 years, I think it's enough to gauge things.

you came in when it nosedived and its barely recovered since... although things are on an upward climb these days. I see a rennaisance happening despite the doomers out there.

But its a fragile recovery at the moment.

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Originally posted by The Highroller when you're young, when everything is fresh, new and exciting

Actually, keeping a youthful mindset can help carry that on well into one's later years.

The rave scene was started in Toronto because someone went somewhere else, saw what was going on, came home and decided to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else. Lots of unused warehouse space and little regulation in regard to use of that space definitely facilitated the process.

These days, most of the people I know who go somewhere else just come back shaking their heads at the Toronto scene, as there's no room and far too much red tape to wade through to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else.

And please, don't bother telling me how great it is here - I get it, you're a fan. I'm not talking about what's already in existence in this city, I'm talking about potential.

So, it has been decided that old days were the best and now the scene has gone downhill.

Question arises: what shall we do or can do to ...

a) somewhat bring back the old days
b) save the scene
c) maintain the quality of music and clubs

Lets face it, we can't change what people wear to clubs and how many kilos of gel they put in their hair but lets contribute what we can and should do to help keep the "vibe alive".

To be fair, there was a ton of pretentious behaviour in the old scene.

Genre snobs, battles over what club was better, and those of us that never paid cover laughed @ the rest of you secretly.

Most of my comments are partially because I'm not as much a part of the current community as I once was, but it's more of a comment on the overall culture & vibe in society now.

To be honest, when I've been out in Toronto over the past few yrs it was like going to a top 40 night out west. Not exactly identical, although I've heard lots of the same music being played, but the people were definitely the same.

Anyone here from back in the day should recognize the significance of the System vs Plastique analogy.

There would be mounted cops lined up on Plastique's side of the street, a constant stream of fights and shiny clothes. The patrons were as plastic and vapid as the name suggests, but more to the point it was your typical Top 40 club.

System meanwhile gave the cops nowhere near as many problems on a nightly basis, and a disturbance between patrons were few and far between. Everyone just wanted to dance and have a good time, and there were tons of different people getting along.

Basically things felt like Plastique more than they do System.

Yeah, I'm old.

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Originally posted by The Highroller It also has to be taken into consideration that what you experience when you're young, when everything is fresh, new and exciting will automatically skew your opinion into thinking that things were better back then.

I've come to realize this is very, very true.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 you came in when it nosedived and its barely recovered since... although things are on an upward climb these days. I see a rennaisance happening despite the doomers out there. But its a fragile recovery at the moment.

I'd say calling 2000 the nosedive is off by a few years Jay...

In my opinion, the end of 2004 was the turning point...

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Originally posted by crazedcanuck System vs Plastique

E vs Alchohol

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Originally posted by TranceGrooves E vs Alchohol

E was in heavy supply there, & the booze flowed pretty heavy @ system.

IMO more to the point is the social mentality between the two groups.

Dickswinging aggro vs happy-go-lucky.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno These days, most of the people I know who go somewhere else just come back shaking their heads at the Toronto scene, as there's no room and far too much red tape to wade through to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else. And please, don't bother telling me how great it is here - I get it, you're a fan. I'm not talking about what's already in existence in this city, I'm talking about potential.

You're right that Toronto's scene has a lot wasted potential, but to say people shake their heads when they come back from partying gets a from me.

Depending on who is posting, the definition of "my times was better" varies greatly...

Only confirms something, the past was better, always better lol

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Originally posted by The Highroller You're right that Toronto's scene has a lot wasted potential, but to say people shake their heads when they come back from partying gets a from me.

No he's right...

As recently as 3 weeks ago, I was at Stereo and thought how much it felt like the old Guv days...

But when I was in Ibiza in 2003, I'd say how it was nice but didn't compare to Guv...

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Originally posted by malek I'm turning 31 next month, I've been in it since 2000. Thats 10 years, I think it's enough to gauge things.

we've been at it for roughly the same time.
ive been clubbing since i was 16 (1994) but started with this scene around 2000-2001. i will admit that the early days we much more fun with less attitude but EVERYTHING will evolve regardless if it is for good or bad. i know it is because our scene was more 'underground' back then and now it has become much more mainstream so we are seeing a more mainstream clientele. we needed it to become mainstream if we wanted to see all these big djs come to toronto. mainstream brings more people which brings more money which allows promoters to book bigger acts.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno Actually, keeping a youthful mindset can help carry that on well into one's later years. The rave scene was started in Toronto because someone went somewhere else, saw what was going on, came home and decided to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else. Lots of unused warehouse space and little regulation in regard to use of that space definitely facilitated the process. These days, most of the people I know who go somewhere else just come back shaking their heads at the Toronto scene, as there's no room and far too much red tape to wade through to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else. And please, don't bother telling me how great it is here - I get it, you're a fan. I'm not talking about what's already in existence in this city, I'm talking about potential.

very very well said

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Originally posted by chinamon we've been at it for roughly the same time. ive been clubbing since i was 16 (1994) but started with this scene around 2000-2001. i will admit that the early days we much more fun with less attitude but EVERYTHING will evolve regardless if it is for good or bad. i know it is because our scene was more 'underground' back then and now it has become much more mainstream so we are seeing a more mainstream clientele. we needed it to become mainstream if we wanted to see all these big djs come to toronto. mainstream brings more people which brings more money which allows promoters to book bigger acts.

'cuz bigger's always better.

...and actually, rave promoters used to bring in all sorts of 'big acts' without the need for mainstream clientele, they were just operating under a very different business model.

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Originally posted by malek You got older and disillusioned dude, it's still exist and is out there for the new generation.

wow really? lol

you're 31! When the heck did you start partying that you don't realize that the "scene" in this city is so vastly different and watered down? You can't even compare the two eras. It actually brings a tear to my eye..

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Originally posted by PivotTechno 'cuz bigger's always better. ...and actually, rave promoters used to bring in all sorts of 'big acts' without the need for mainstream clientele, they were just operating under a very different business model.

sometimes it is.
if you havent noticed, our oldschool crowd was diminishing quick because people were getting older and starting families. there was not enough new blood to fill those shoes. big parties were getting small and small parties were getting even smaller. going mainstream was pretty much the only option we had to save it.

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Originally posted by TranceGrooves So, it has been decided that old days were the best and now the scene has gone downhill. Question arises: what shall we do or can do to ... a) somewhat bring back the old days

pay attention to city and provincial politcs, ask appropriate questions and vote accordingly

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b) save the scene

same as above... most of the problems i see today are thanks to a stranglehold of regulations and bylaws.

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c) maintain the quality of music and clubs

support those who throw parties by attending. Or throw parties yourself. Also, lose the attitude when you are out. Always be open to meeting new people even if you keep meeting people who arent open to it themselves. Eventually if enough people do this, it will catch on.

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Lets face it, we can't change what people wear to clubs and how many kilos of gel they put in their hair but lets contribute what we can and should do to help keep the "vibe alive".

i agree... its not so much about what u wear but your attitude. And Toronto's attitude generally stinks

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Originally posted by PivotTechno 'cuz bigger's always better. ...and actually, rave promoters used to bring in all sorts of 'big acts' without the need for mainstream clientele, they were just operating under a very different business model.

thats because a lot of raves were 10,000, 15,000 upwards of 20,000 people at one time!!!

The average club in the 90s held 2000 people.. THE AVERAGE CLUB.

even the underground parties were 1000-2000 strong at $30 a piece or more.

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Originally posted by chinamon sometimes it is. if you havent noticed, our oldschool crowd was diminishing quick because people were getting older and starting families. there was not enough new blood to fill those shoes. big parties were getting small and small parties were getting even smaller. going mainstream was pretty much the only option we had to save it.

Who's WE? I want to know so I can join this jedi group of elders.

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Originally posted by gummybear Who's WE? I want to know so I can join this jedi group of elders.

you're not cool enough.

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