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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Earth Hour this Sat March 27 at 8:30 p.m.
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Originally posted by kaniz Stuff White People Like #18 - Awareness

funny how this is categorized as a white person thing. Because this sounds to me like every "multicultural" minority government sponsored group that exists in Canada.

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Originally posted by daves I measure awareness by whether or not people know what is going on and there is dialogue about it. Do people talk more about energy conservation when there are events like this? I can say that people I interact with outside of the Internet seem to be a lot more engaged on the matter... whether or not their own activities have changed accordingly. It's amazing how some things can drive dialogue outside of the internet world of OH YA FUK U EARTH HOUR, I AM FORUM WARRIOR I PISS ON U.

a yes dialogue amongst social circles that usually consist of people with like minds and little opposition. As opposed to a forum where people from all sides of issues are able to express their opinions.

Awareness. As if people who are against the enviro-hippy agenda arent aware of anything. Quite an assumption. Perhaps its awareness that motivates them to be against silly things like earth hour

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Originally posted by DigiNut [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Some commercial buildings (and ironically almost no government buildings) turn off the lights, so... great, we save a few hundred bucks of electricity, and immediately afterward they go back to blasting their air conditioners while it's 15� outside.

I was about say this.

Whenever I'm driving at night I see pretty much every store and office building has some lights on, and usually their sign, too.
It's fucking ridiculous.
No lights need to be on, the alarm yes (which may trigger lights when tripped), but no lights (especially the sign).

Less people participated this year then last. So this isn't working. Recessions great for making people forget the environment, economic progress at any cost. Toronto should lead by example and come up with something more effective in changing minds then one f***ing hour a year... Conservation month? Or how about starting a complete change towards a sustainable conservation life style in toronto starting with government run facilities and industry? I work in a government building and we did nothing during earth hour. I even got in shit for turning some lights off...

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Originally posted by c-mal I was about say this. Whenever I'm driving at night I see pretty much every store and office building has some lights on, and usually their sign, too. It's fucking ridiculous. No lights need to be on, the alarm yes (which may trigger lights when tripped), but no lights (especially the sign).

lighting deters criminals. Alarms not so much because criminals know it takes awhile for authorities to arrive.

To ask business to turn all their lights off would just be inviting more trouble. Would you want to live in a dark city?

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Originally posted by Ferg Less people participated this year then last. So this isn't working. Recessions great for making people forget the environment, economic progress at any cost. Toronto should lead by example and come up with something more effective in changing minds then one f***ing hour a year... Conservation month? Or how about starting a complete change towards a sustainable conservation life style in toronto starting with government run facilities and industry? I work in a government building and we did nothing during earth hour. I even got in shit for turning some lights off...

I agree... and we are. Look around at all the LED lighting being put in. I think its excellent!

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Originally posted by Ferg Less people participated this year then last. So this isn't working. Recessions great for making people forget the environment, economic progress at any cost. Toronto should lead by example and come up with something more effective in changing minds then one f***ing hour a year... Conservation month? Or how about starting a complete change towards a sustainable conservation life style in toronto starting with government run facilities and industry? I work in a government building and we did nothing during earth hour. I even got in shit for turning some lights off...

We don't need any more marketing for conservation. As I already said, people who care about saving the world are already doing that. The ones who don't care are still not going to care even if you have a conservation month, conservation year or conservation decade....they just are not going to care.

The only reason I turn off lights in my house is because I pay for the electricity. If I didn't pay for it I probably wouldn't turn off a single light in the house.

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Originally posted by c-mal I was about say this. Whenever I'm driving at night I see pretty much every store and office building has some lights on, and usually their sign, too. It's fucking ridiculous. No lights need to be on, the alarm yes (which may trigger lights when tripped), but no lights (especially the sign).

Most buildings have cleaners in them at night so that could be part of the reason they have lights on. If anything should be lit up its the sign....advertising makes companies money....and its perfect advertising.

Jean Claude Van Damme is Aware!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 lighting deters criminals. Alarms not so much because criminals know it takes awhile for authorities to arrive. To ask business to turn all their lights off would just be inviting more trouble. Would you want to live in a dark city?

Well, apart from the asshat criminals who ruin everything, I see no problem with living in a "Dark city" if it entails that businesses, while closed, will turn off all their lights to conserve.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced If anything should be lit up its the sign....advertising makes companies money....and its perfect advertising.

They can advertise the other 16 or so hours of the day just fine.
It's not like they have an advantage by advertising at night, since every business does it, just as they all do during the day.

Plus, in the late hours of the night, most of the demographic they're advertising to are either asleep or too wasted to care/remember at that point in time.

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Originally posted by c-mal Well, apart from the asshat criminals who ruin everything, I see no problem with living in a "Dark city" if it entails that businesses, while closed, will turn off all their lights to conserve. They can advertise the other 16 or so hours of the day just fine. It's not like they have an advantage by advertising at night, since every business does it, just as they all do during the day. Plus, in the late hours of the night, most of the demographic they're advertising to are either asleep or too wasted to care/remember at that point in time.

Its the asshat criminals im worried about. Thats why your insurance goes down the better lit u are at night.

As for advertising, for the pennies it costs to keep your sign on all night, the advertising you get from it is priceless. Especially when youve already paid thousands for that sign and the permits in the first place. Youve obviously never owned a store or restaurant.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 As for advertising, for the pennies it costs to keep your sign on all night, the advertising you get from it is priceless. Especially when youve already paid thousands for that sign and the permits in the first place. Youve obviously never owned a store or restaurant.

I really doubt it's pennies they're dealing with, but I'll take your word for it, since you seem to have more experience with this topic.

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Originally posted by c-mal I really doubt it's pennies they're dealing with, but I'll take your word for it, since you seem to have more experience with this topic.

it doesnt cost much to run a florescent bulb. LEDs are vastly cheaper as well. Neon is what kills you.

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Originally posted by c-mal I really doubt it's pennies they're dealing with, but I'll take your word for it, since you seem to have more experience with this topic.

I actually do have experience with this topic and it really does cost pennies to keep your lights on. In my apartment, for example, with all the lights turned on, I'm sucking up about 500 W total of power, which for 1 hour is 0.5 kWh or about 3 cents of electricity.

Commercial buildings obviously require substantially more light, but are almost all fluorescent lighting, so they might be using a few kW for the lights. Still, pennies - less than 25 cents to run the entire building for an hour and maybe a few dollars for the whole day.

Usually what chews up power at an office building is:

(a) the HVAC system - that's the biggie of course, and most businesses have a programmable thermostat in order to save money, forget about electricity.

(b) Server computers, which obviously cannot be turned off, nor can any of the networking equipment, backup power supplies, etc. used to keep them running;

(c) Workstations, which typically only run at 100-150 W but that adds up when you have 200 of them. "Power-conscious" businesses may have them shut down or put into sleep mode.

It's all peanuts, really. There's only one thing that's going to cut Ontario's power demand; it's not a "dark city" and it's not silly gimmicks like Earth Hour to "raise awareness". It's to stop sheltering consumers from the true cost of electricity. Most consumers in this province are paying heavily subsidized rates and several residential consumers aren't paying at all. I wouldn't be surprised if half the people posting in this thread live in a rental building where electricity is included in the rent, and have no clue at how much they actually use or what it costs.

Anyway, I won't get into a whole essay about that, but if every consumer had to start paying the market rate for electricity, then demand/consumption in the residential and small business sectors would drop by up to 60%, possibly more.

Digi, expensive electricity would mean lights out on industry and business that need cheap energy to survive. DOnt worry though... McFinky has the answer. $6 billion dollars worth to samsung that we get to pay a new surcharge for, plus HST of course!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Digi, expensive electricity would mean lights out on industry and business that need cheap energy to survive.

Industrial customers already do pay market rates. They are not the problem.

"Businesses that need cheap energy to survive" can almost always reduce their demand, and a significant enough reduction would in turn lower costs. Residential customers have no excuse, I've seen people running their heat up to 35� in the spring.

Good info, thanks.

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