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quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno What, grow up and close my mind to all possibilities, believing only the status quo? But you're right, it couldn't possibly be the government's doing, as they're just looking out for the well being of average blokes like you and me, and not attempting to make the citizenry paranoid of each other in any way... Nope Never

yeah, that substantiates your paranoia about the government planting those home made bombs

your problem is you don't understand how to do rational inquiry. you start with the evidence and see where it leads, you dont create a hypothesis and try to support it with the evidence. well, unless youre a conspiracy theorist of course!

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Arrest Made http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/04/ne...hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Ha! Nou's dream of a pasty white redneck from Mississippi destroying peoples' lives has been shattered.

Where was Rube Goldberg?

awfully suspicious

Shame on you Joss, that's no better than all the demonization that went on for 8 years against any enemies of the Neocons.

inb4 resident nut rider.

Damn, I was hoping it was this guy

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN your problem is you don't understand how to do rational inquiry. you start with the evidence and see where it leads, you dont create a hypothesis and try to support it with the evidence. well, unless youre a conspiracy theorist of course!

Rational inquiry tells me that there is a longstanding precedent of governments out-and-out lying to their citizenry in order to exercise effective control over the population and to further their own narrow interests.

You see paranoia, I see a healthy level of warranted skepticism.

But hey, the impartial New York Times once reported that the "removal" of 3,000,000 Jews from Poland was seen as a benefit. Beneficial to good old American companies like IBM.

But that isn't how governments act in this day and age, like adversaries in public but shaking hands behind closed doors - is it? Everyone's working together toward the greater good, right?

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Rational inquiry tells me that there is a longstanding precedent of governments out-and-out lying to their citizenry in order to exercise effective control over the population and to further their own narrow interests..... But that isn't how governments act in this day and age, like adversaries in public but shaking hands behind closed doors - is it? Everyone's working together toward the greater good, right?

I find it interesting tha you're the same guy screaming that the government should pass legislation to prohibit the use of automobiles and argue that they should have jurisdiction over all manner of social policy; however, you have so little confidence in those elected to represent our interests that you actually believe that they are "out-and-out lying... to further their own narrow interests." You really can't have it both ways; either they are trustworthy therefore we should allow them more control over us, or they are not so we should allow them as little control as possible. You have to choose, it cannot be both.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard I find it interesting tha you're the same guy screaming that the government should pass legislation to prohibit the use of automobiles and argue that they should have jurisdiction over all manner of social policy; however, you have so little confidence in those elected to represent our interests that you actually believe that they are "out-and-out lying... to further their own narrow interests." You really can't have it both ways; either they are trustworthy therefore we should allow them more control over us, or they are not so we should allow them as little control as possible. You have to choose, it cannot be both.

Oh, but it can. The government that would regulate the use of motorised vehicles in the interest of environmental preservation is not the same as the one that's currently in place, in any country.

Elections are a joke in their current form - intentional government inactivity (show me real progress, please) has led to ridiculous levels of voter apathy, ensuring that the usual small contingent keeps their interests firmly at the forefront.

Our technology truly makes us a global community. But these technologies, and the companies that manufacture and utilise them, have been allowed to operate relatively unchecked pretty much since the advent of the industrial era, dictating policy to suit their needs as they go. Global community demands truly global policy that takes all of humanity and the planet into equal account - a world regulatory body that would hold that notion up to scrutiny with every consideration is the government that I'm referring to.

Until such a government comes into existence, people will continue to be seen as worth only $6 a week in return for endless backbreaking labour, and it will be perfectly acceptable for someone who meets and gladhands and sits in big, comfy chairs, greenlighting paperwork for a few hours a day, to make millions upon millions of times more in the same period of time.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Ha! Nou's dream of a pasty white redneck from Mississippi destroying peoples' lives has been shattered.

Not really. This was obvious spin. Liberals can do it too.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Oh, but it can. The government that would regulate the use of motorised vehicles in the interest of environmental preservation is not the same as the one that's currently in place, in any country. Elections are a joke in their current form - intentional government inactivity (show me real progress, please) has led to ridiculous levels of voter apathy, ensuring that the usual small contingent keeps their interests firmly at the forefront. Our technology truly makes us a global community. But these technologies, and the companies that manufacture and utilise them, have been allowed to operate relatively unchecked pretty much since the advent of the industrial era, dictating policy to suit their needs as they go. Global community demands truly global policy that takes all of humanity and the planet into equal account - a world regulatory body that would hold that notion up to scrutiny with every consideration is the government that I'm referring to. Until such a government comes into existence, people will continue to be seen as worth only $6 a week in return for endless backbreaking labour, and it will be perfectly acceptable for someone who meets and gladhands and sits in big, comfy chairs, greenlighting paperwork for a few hours a day, to make millions upon millions of times more in the same period of time.

Democracy doesn't work.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Oh, but it can. The government that would regulate the use of motorised vehicles in the interest of environmental preservation is not the same as the one that's currently in place, in any country. Elections are a joke in their current form - intentional government inactivity (show me real progress, please) has led to ridiculous levels of voter apathy, ensuring that the usual small contingent keeps their interests firmly at the forefront. Our technology truly makes us a global community. But these technologies, and the companies that manufacture and utilise them, have been allowed to operate relatively unchecked pretty much since the advent of the industrial era, dictating policy to suit their needs as they go. Global community demands truly global policy that takes all of humanity and the planet into equal account - a world regulatory body that would hold that notion up to scrutiny with every consideration is the government that I'm referring to. Until such a government comes into existence, people will continue to be seen as worth only $6 a week in return for endless backbreaking labour, and it will be perfectly acceptable for someone who meets and gladhands and sits in big, comfy chairs, greenlighting paperwork for a few hours a day, to make millions upon millions of times more in the same period of time.

Generally speaking, you're not exactly wrong... but this is like faulting one amoeba for being larger than another. Everyone gets eaten, eventually.

Until nothing remains.

~fin~

-- Arrests reported in Pakistan during probe of failed Times Square bombing, Pakistani intelligence source says.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Democracy doesn't work.

But it's the least worst form of government, apparently

quote:

Originally posted by Lira But it's the least worst form of government, apparently

Meritocracy is where it's at, bro.

that is 12 blocks from my job - crazy shit.. indeed!

i was walking through the Times Square subway station on Friday night and noticed a duffel bag sitting unaccompanied in an area where there weren't many people. i did my good deed and tracked down some cops to let them know about it. makes me wonder now if that was in any way related to the incident on Saturday night.

I recall finding things and taking them to something called "the lost and found".

Y'know, back when people did stuff like that.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Rational inquiry tells me that there is a longstanding precedent of governments out-and-out lying to their citizenry in order to exercise effective control over the population and to further their own narrow interests. You see paranoia, I see a healthy level of warranted skepticism.

Anyone that frames the government in such unitary, �hive mind� terms doesn�t understand the first thing about how governments work (or don�t work). there�s also an incredible amount of difference between honest scepticism, �hmmmm, I wonder if the government have caught the right person regarding the failed bomb plot in times square� and stupid, na�ve and immature viewpoints (devoid of all supporting evidence) �gee, maybe the government planted those bombs in time square�.

Indeed, doubting anything and everything the government says without any form of critical evaluation is no better than believing everything they say. There has to be some middle ground, unless its your position that �the government� always lies about everything (clearly a ridiculous viewpoint).

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno But hey, the impartial New York Times once reported that the "removal" of 3,000,000 Jews from Poland was seen as a benefit. Beneficial to good old American companies like IBM. But that isn't how governments act in this day and age, like adversaries in public but shaking hands behind closed doors - is it? Everyone's working together toward the greater good, right?

And this must be the third or fourth time you�ve provided �evidence� completely irrelevant to the discussion. Tell me how this latest link substantiates your claim that �maybe� the government planted the times square bombs?

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno But hey, the impartial New York Times once reported that the "removal" of 3,000,000 Jews from Poland was seen as a benefit. Beneficial to good old American companies like IBM.

What the fuck does the Nazi's invading Poland have to do with ANYTHING?

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Generally speaking, you're not exactly wrong... but this is like faulting one amoeba for being larger than another. Everyone gets eaten, eventually.

Fuck you halcyon. Don�t lend this cretin�s shallow, generic analysis any credence. You know as well as I do that the situation is far more complex and not nearly as black and white as this hippy buffoon is attempting to illustrate.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100504...square_car_bomb

Does that look like the face of a killer?

Looks like a CIA Agent.

America should execute this guy.

He looks like that guy from the forum...

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