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Originally posted by ModernNosferatu I was just going after his segmant called "New Rules"

Wtf are you talking about? I wasn't even talking about Bill Maher in that post, nor was I addressing you.

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Originally posted by ModernNosferatu I was just going after his segmant called "New Rules"

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Wtf are you talking about? I wasn't even talking about Bill Maher in that post, nor was I addressing you.

I didn't get you either...I quoted Bill Maher and you asked what did he say. But I had already quoted it "it better give me a buzz and a woody"

So I didn't understand why you asked me what he said about the movie, that is what he said about the movie?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Is that actually a nostalgia trip, though? I thought it was more like, "Haha, hey look, it's David Bowie in a cheesy '80s movie!" Seems to me less like genuine nostalgia than camp appreciation. Nostalgia is about looking back to things that you long to live through again, or yearning for lost feelings, not really poking fun at bits of your childhood.

Completely fucking agree. For most, I think that film is a camp appreciation magnet (like the rocky horror show etc.), not a cornerstone of childhood nostalgia.

Anyway, as I get older I find that nostalgia is not what it used to be.

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Originally posted by ModernNosferatu I didn't get you either...I quoted Bill Maher and you asked what did he say. But I had already quoted it "it better give me a buzz and a woody" So I didn't understand why you asked me what he said about the movie, that is what he said about the movie?

I posted a pedantic one liner about your spelling of Maher's name. Then I replied to someone else and you randomly quoted me and kept talking about Bill Maher like it had anything to do with what I said to Paradox Lost.

I'll repeat Maige's question: are you high?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I can't decide if you're saying "Your mixes suck!" or if you mistakenly think the Epic House mixes are the only things I've ever done. Although those weren't nostalgia mixes as such, because I was getting into the style for the first time and wanted to share it in a "This is some forgotten history" kind of way. I do think that people obsessed over how past music is better, whether they actually remember it or not, is a slightly different mutation of the same mindset I'm railing against, and isn't particularly relevant to this thread. Saying I'm nostalgically obsessed with 90s prog is about as accurate as Existo saying woscar likes "minimal hipster shit".

I can't get what you're aiming for with these statements.

Simply put, I fucking rate those mixes for a multitude of reasons, one of them being the quality and musical integrity of the tracks which I seldom find in today's saturated, polluted and commericalized market. One of my comments on those threads was that I'd done exactly the same mixes but not in that sequence or bothered to put them out there. It's not so much nostalgia (even though I do have nostalgia about some of those nights and that music back in the 90's but that's due to a far more complex social/behavioural standpoint), but about appreciation for for well made art that for some reason has not been continued in the same or even evolutionary form. It's a simple case of liking that music maybe because certain basic or complex aspects appeal to me and my have even helped shape my tastes (hence why I miss them when I don't find it again).

So lighten up. I liked them a lot and think you did something great.

I'm glad you like them, but I'm not talking about those mixes. I've made three mixes - Regressive House, Close Your Eyes and Excession - that aimed to prove that the great music of the 90s is still being made. Whether they succeeded or not is personal preference, but that's not my point here.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've made three mixes - Regressive House, Close Your Eyes and Excession - that aimed to prove that the great music of the 90s is still being made.

Link them already!

Excession is in my sig, but my hosting is gone so the other two are no longer online.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Is that actually a nostalgia trip, though? I thought it was more like, "Haha, hey look, it's David Bowie in a cheesy '80s movie!" Seems to me less like genuine nostalgia than camp appreciation. Nostalgia is about looking back to things that you long to live through again, or yearning for lost feelings, not really poking fun at bits of your childhood.

There is certainly something to be said for that and other similar types of memorabilia being mere camp appreciation, but it's also the type of thing (if not the same thing) that's part and parcel of this larger 'cult of nostalgia' that SYSTEM-J alluded to earlier, which tends to be characterized by this semi-facetious, semi-genuine nostalgic appreciation for certain aspects of popular culture essentially associated with their childhood.

"Hey, remember Labyriiiiyeahhhh, that shit was awesome- those were the days!," is the conversational representation of what I'm talking about. Replace Labyrinth with The Never Ending Story, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or JEM, and you've managed to replicate precisely the same conversation, and possibly the same theme party later that night.

I'm not attempting to suggest that there is anything necessarily disagreeable with these attitudes, but as I mentioned earlier, it's something that seems to have slowly amassed a great deal of momentum around itself, slowly developing into what almost feels like a pop culture movement, to the extent where I can't watch something like Adult Swim without coming to believe that these playful and overblown nostalgic sensibilities amount to the backbone of its humor.

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost I look at it as being part and parcel of this larger 'cult of nostalgia' that SYSTEM-J alluded to earlier, which tends to be characterized by this semi-facetious, semi-genuine nostalgic appreciation for certain aspects of popular culture essentially associated with their childhood. "Hey, remember Labyriiiiyeahhhh, that shit was awesome- those were the days!," is the conversational representation of what I'm talking about. Replace Labyrinth with The Never Ending Story, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or JEM, and you've managed to replicate precisely the same conversation, and possibly the same theme party later that night.

I don't think that is really nostalgia, though. It's another example of "ironic" re-appropriation of kitschy, cheesy elements of another decade, something that has really blown up these past ten years or so. But I guess there might be a slight tinge of nostalgia to it, something like, "I wish I could still enjoy such movies on a primary, non-"meta" level, without any ironic distancing." Although I'm not sure how many people think it through to that level. They may just be having a good time poking fun at the '80s.

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Originally posted by Maige Hahah, holy shit are you high right now?

No but you are, Lexapro !!!

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I posted a pedantic one liner about your spelling of Maher's name. Then I replied to someone else and you randomly quoted me and kept talking about Bill Maher like it had anything to do with what I said to Paradox Lost. I'll repeat Maige's question: are you high?

I knew you were getting at the misspelling of Mahers names, that is why I said "Go enjoy your cake"

Sarcasm is a 2 way street.

My bad for not realizing you were already on another topic.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Excession is in my sig, but my hosting is gone so the other two are no longer online.

Well reup them already as I didn't know anything about them. I'm posiitve someone on here has a bit of hosting space they can lend you if you don't

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Well reup them already as I didn't know anything about them. I'm posiitve someone on here has a bit of hosting space they can lend you if you don't

I'm uploading them now. They'll be done in about 40 mins.

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Originally posted by Sushipunk I'm uploading them now. They'll be done in about 40 mins.

you are the man. THANKS!!!

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think that is really nostalgia, though. It's another example of "ironic" re-appropriation of kitschy, cheesy elements of another decade, something that has really blown up these past ten years or so. But I guess there might be a slight tinge of nostalgia to it, something like, "I wish I could still enjoy such movies on a primary, non-"meta" level, without any ironic distancing." Although I'm not sure how many people think it through to that level. They may just be having a good time poking fun at the '80s.

I've been inclined to view it as an amalgam of both. As you mentioned, taking light hearted jabs at 80's bombastic ridiculousness is something that has received a greatly enthusiastic reception in the past several years, but that's just a component of the nostalgic perspective I'm referring to. A yearning or longing to re-experience the past is not at all an essential condition for nostalgia (at least, according to my understanding of it, and you're free to correct me in the event that I'm incorrect); it's the mere act of deriving some sense of pleasure through an active reflection of a period of time in your life that has since drawn to a close, or at least through a reflection of specific elements linked with that period of time.

The cultural current I'm talking about is certainly taking a playfully comical angle towards the absurdities of the 80's, but it nevertheless has a fondly reminiscent 'those were the days' connotation assigned to it- which as far as I'm concerned, makes it nostalgic. Considering the subject matter that's commonly discussed, it's no surprise, then, that this current is populated largely by mid to late twenty-somethings. These are the same people who are responsible for having completely devalued the word 'awesome,' by the way.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think that is really nostalgia, though. It's another example of "ironic" re-appropriation of kitschy, cheesy elements of another decade, something that has really blown up these past ten years or so. But I guess there might be a slight tinge of nostalgia to it, something like, "I wish I could still enjoy such movies on a primary, non-"meta" level, without any ironic distancing." Although I'm not sure how many people think it through to that level. They may just be having a good time poking fun at the '80s.

I think it's much simpler than that. These people don't really "ironically" love these things. They just love them. The irony is self-protective, like when someone feels self-aware on a dancefloor so they ironically dance. It's not that they're "poking fun" at the occasion, it's just irony is a method for people to disown something should it become problematic.

They may be aware that the 80s trash culture in question is tacky and tasteless, hence the protective irony, but it gives them that warm nostalgia of an idealised past just on the edge of memory.

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost A yearning or longing to re-experience the past is not at all an essential condition for nostalgia (at least, according to my understanding of it, and you're free to correct me in the event that I'm incorrect); it's the mere act of deriving some sense of pleasure through an active reflection of a period of time in your life that has since drawn to a close, or at least through a reflection of specific elements linked with that period of time.

I think it is an essential element. Or at least, the yearning to experience similar feelings to the ones you imagine having had in the past, if not the actual past events themselves.

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The cultural current I'm talking about is certainly taking a playfully comical angle towards the absurdities of the 80's, but it nevertheless has a fondly reminiscent 'those were the days' connotation assigned to it- which as far as I'm concerned, makes it nostalgic.

Hmm, maybe. I think there is a feeling that the '80s were more "innocent" in some way, perhaps less corroded by self-awareness and self-censoring, and people wish for that much at least.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think it's much simpler than that. These people don't really "ironically" love these things. They just love them. The irony is self-protective, like when someone feels self-aware on a dancefloor so they ironically dance. It's not that they're "poking fun" at the occasion, it's just irony is a method for people to disown something should it become problematic.

I don't think they really do, though. At the very least, I don't think they view the movies in anything like the light they did when they first saw them. Otherwise we have to posit that, for example, people our age take Bastian's struggles in the Neverending Story as seriously as they did when they were six or seven years old. That seems more than a bit far-fetched to me. If they "love" the movies at all, they love them for the unintentional humor of the cheesy dialogue and chintzy special effects, not for their drama or artistic merit.

Yes, these retrospective angles are more multi-faceted than the spin I'm putting on them would suggest. I'm still not sold on the idea that a yearning to re-experience a particular set of emotions is an intrinsic component of nostalgia, though even so, and when taking this all into account, it's rather apparent to me that the perspectives I've been discussing fit appropriately and meaningfully into the idea of nostalgia in its most basic sense.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think they really do, though. At the very least, I don't think they view the movies in anything like the light they did when they first saw them. Otherwise we have to posit that, for example, people our age take Bastian's struggles in the Neverending Story as seriously as they did when they were six or seven years old. That seems more than a bit far-fetched to me. If they "love" the movies at all, they love them for the unintentional humor of the cheesy dialogue and chintzy special effects, not for their drama or artistic merit.

You're certainly correct to point out that one doesn't necessarily love something for the same set of reasons now as they did when they were younger, though I would have to disagree that the nature of this 'developed' love exists by virtue of aspects such as cheesy dialogue and special effects, or dichotomizing in such a way so as to contrast it between loving it for inadvertent silliness or its dramatic and artistic qualities.

I still love Nevereding Story, though in a way that's more contextually relevant towards who I am now relative to the function it had during my upbringing, despite being fully cognizant of the overly sentimental ridiculousness that either evaded me when I was younger, or was conditioned to accept. I'm fairly confident that many others appreciate similar films for similarly holistic reasons.

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost ...though I would have to disagree that the nature of this 'developed' love exists by virtue of aspects such as cheesy dialogue and special effects, or dichotomized in such a way so as to contrast it between loving it for inadvertent silliness or its dramatic and artistic qualities.

Then what do you think is the main reason people our age love such films? I'm trying to figure out what it is about the movie itself that they genuinely enjoy. Obviously they like the general mood the movie puts them in, sort of playfully nostalgic perhaps, but that seems less a function of any characteristic of the movie itself than the very contingent, accidental fact that they just happened to see it at a certain point in their youth.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN you are the man. THANKS!!!

Here are the 3 mixes Jack was talking about :



Regressive House:

http://www.sushipunk.net/Mixes/Jack...ive%20House.mp3

Close Your Eyes:

http://www.sushipunk.net/Mixes/Jack...Your%20Eyes.mp3

Excession:

http://www.sushipunk.net/Mixes/Jack...20Excession.mp3

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think they really do, though. At the very least, I don't think they view the movies in anything like the light they did when they first saw them. Otherwise we have to posit that, for example, people our age take Bastian's struggles in the Neverending Story as seriously as they did when they were six or seven years old. That seems more than a bit far-fetched to me. If they "love" the movies at all, they love them for the unintentional humor of the cheesy dialogue and chintzy special effects, not for their drama or artistic merit.

Of course they're not going to view these movies in the same light as they did when they were six. That difference of perspective is a necessary part of nostalgia, it's what makes nostalgia different to simply remembering a happy moment.

For me, a large part of nostalgia is about loss. Nostalgia is more powerful than simple happy memory because there is a strong element of yearning and wistfulness. If I think of all the parts of my life that I get nostalgic about, they are phases of life I cannot go back to. I was not nostalgic about school until I left it. I was not nostalgic about university but now I can be, and so on.

What makes people enjoy films or cartoons from their childhood so much is not the unintentional humour or the cheesines: you can derive that entertainment from any amount of shit from any number of eras, including the present day. People like these films exactly because they can no longer view them as a six year old, and yet they can remember viewing them as a six year old. They have lost that innocence and their nostalgia is a yearning to reclaim it. Irony is an appropriate reaction because it is the opposite of a child's uncomplicated, earnest enjoyment of something. These jaded-before-their-time ironic twenty-somethings are yearning for something they don't seem to be able to do: the ability to enjoy something genuinely, in the moment.

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