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-- So what is the big deal with the TSA pat downs?
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quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess Does anyone know if Pearson Airport even has those body scanners?

They do. Terminal 1 has at least 2 of them IIRC.

New threat is Fedex misplacing 20 pounds of radioactive rods for CT scans

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Isreal does a great job.

Apples and oranges. Everyone's parroting the same convenient catch phrase, "just look at Israel!", while somehow neglecting the fact that Israel has two international airports and only a handful of domestic terminals, while the U.S. is home to over 5,000 airports with paved runways - have fun implementing uniform policy with those numbers. Also amusing that no one seems to feel fit to mention that Israel's screening methods are largely based on racial profiling, which I'm sure would go over like gangbusters in this corner of the world.

Health and privacy issues aside, my main point of contention with these screening methods is that they do NOTHING to deter so-called terrorist activity. Wednesday was supposed to have been an "opt-out" day of protest at U.S. airports, but instead, the cowards at the TSA decided to turn off the majority of the scanners in complete avoidance of the issue at hand, while the do-nothing "I clicked 'join' on a Facebook page, so I'm involved!" crowd folded like a bad poker hand. And how many U.S.-based terrorist attacks were there without this vital and most necessary security measure taken out of the equation? "Pat, I'd like to buy a ZERO!"

Sure, you can argue that it was just one day, that something could happen at any time, and therefore these screening measures are quite needed. But the truth of the matter is that the U.S. has far too many ports of entry to be able to guard all of them - if someone wants to throw a major wrench into the system, they most certainly will find a way to do so, and no number of pat-downs and x-rays is going to prevent it from happening. And on a more personal note, what happens when governments decide current measures aren't enough and implement even more stringent rules and regulations? When will enough be enough for you?

At the root of all of this is a very dangerous climate of fear and paranoia - it soon becomes all too easy for government to start picking away at people's rights, all under the guise of "it's for your own good".

Needless to say, my wife and I won't be flying in or out of the U.S. any time soon, and the same goes for Canada if they implement similar policy here. These are our principles, and I don't expect anyone to agree with them, but at least maybe I've given you an idea as to where they come from.

As a security professional, I enjoy a good laugh at the TSA's "security theatre".

People talk about a terrorist attack in a public part of an airport, like it's a possibility. Look up the "Lod Massacre", you'll find out that it's already happened. This incident is why Israel got serious about airport security and why they laugh their ass off at us.

As a society we're not serious about security. If we were, behavioural profiling would be the first club out of the bag. Remember folks, I said BEHAVIOURAL profiling. Religion/ethnicity may be one criterion, but it's a small factor when security professionals are trained to be on the lookout for 50 different behaviours.

If you're Arab, bought a one way ticket, with cash, have no luggage, and you're talking about being at peace with Allah - I want you pulled out of line. Sorry Muslims (and others), I don't give a shit if you think dogs are unclean, "Buddy" the bomb sniffing beagle will be going through the checked and carry-on baggage today.

The only reason REAL security is thought to be more expensive is because of the mistaken notion that we need to screen EVERYBODY. Sorry, Tommy the Ten Year Old, Grandma Daisy aren't the terrorists. Right now, it's militant Muslims. Does it matter if Al Qaeda is able to recruit a few pissed off anti-government NRA nuts in the future? Not really; with a well constructed behavioural profile, security practitioners will pick these guys up, regardless of what country they're flying out of.

Sorry to the PC crowd, but your viewpoints do harm people.

I stand corrected on that part, then. Behavioural profiling requires in-depth training and actual intelligence, well beyond the mental scope of those that make up the current majority of NA airport screeners (in the U.S., you don't even have to have a high school diploma to become one).

That's my whole point - the policy SHOULD NOT BE UNIFORM. In terms of risk, the reality is that a terrorist hijacking a plane is extremely low now. Sealing off the cockpit took care of most of this issue, and let's face it, with passengers more guarded now, a would be terrorist is going to need more than a box cutter to hijack the cabin. If you're a reasonably fit male, and your life is under threat, doing nothing is not an option. By the time the pilot lands the plane, there shouldn't be too much of Wannabe Terrorist left to interrogate.

Bombing an airplane is an incredibly rare event. Public policy that deals with routine events and transactions should not be dictated by events that are extremely unlikely. If we're going to use the worst case scenario as the standard for safety, then I'd better not let my kids go outside because they might get hit by lightening, and I'd better not be allowed to drive because I might get smoked by a drunk driver. If this doesn't sound ludicrous, there's something wrong with you.

Will there be the occassional bombing? Of course, and very little will prevent that. The most likely scenario for a terrorist attack is a shooting or bombing of the public side of an airport terminal, or an attack on a subway system. Should we put scanners and TSA-like personnel at every subway station? You think Jayx hates public transit now!?! Wait until you see the lines at the Yonge/Bloor station at 5:00pm on a Friday.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno I stand corrected on that part, then. Behavioural profiling requires in-depth training and actual intelligence, well beyond the mental scope of those that make up the current majority of NA airport screeners (in the U.S., you don't even have to have a high school diploma to become one).

On this point I completely agree with you. In Israel, university education is a requirement to be a security screener. In the USA, the TSA is hiring McDonald's rejects. Frankly, I think this is the biggest reason for the public reaction against current search policy and technology. Most of us would have a hard time accepting a teenage girl being porno-scanned by a guy who goes "OHHHH BABY, LOOK AT THOSE TITTIES!". I wish I was exaggerating, but there are reports of this kind of behaviour among scanner operators in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter That's my whole point - the policy SHOULD NOT BE UNIFORM.

I meant uniform in the sense that all screeners should be operating under the same protocol, which they most certainly are not, as you alluded to in mentioning the knuckle-dragging gropers acting out their adolescent fantasies while on the job.

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter Will there be the occassional bombing? Of course, and very little will prevent that. The most likely scenario for a terrorist attack is a shooting or bombing of the public side of an airport terminal, or an attack on a subway system. Should we put scanners and TSA-like personnel at every subway station? You think Jayx hates public transit now!?! Wait until you see the lines at the Yonge/Bloor station at 5:00pm on a Friday.

...and the cyclists shall rule the earth.

I'll start selling "Pro-Security" skateboards

At least I'll have a little choice at the security checkpoint:

"What'll it be today, Sir? Reach-around or Rusty Trombone?"

Dr. Jagger: "Uh, this goes in your mouth. This one goes in your ear. And this one goes in your butt."
Patient: "Come on."
Patient: "Hurry up, asshole!"
Patient: "Come on!"
Dr. Jagger: "Shit. Hang on a second. This one-- No. Uh..."
Patient: "Hurry up!"
Dr. Jagger: "This one goes in your mouth."

quote:

Originally posted by KStuff Also, consider the unknowns in radiation from the new scanners. Ionizing radiation (breaks DNA bonds), that's concentrated on your skin (instead of dispersed throughout the body like an X-Ray). Enough studies have not been done. I get enough radiation just being 30,000 feet in the air, I don't need anymore, especially flying 50x a year, and going through a full body scanner potentially every time. The most I can do is opt out and get groped. I don't really care about people touching me, in fact I'll moan a little bit and close my eyes, just to make the TSA a little less comfortable .

+1

Just close your eyes, and think of England

Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold winter day

Re: Re: Re: So what is the big deal with the TSA pat downs?

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if you're a woman, a woman security guard has to do the pat down for that exact reason.

Does it have to be a straight security guard?

What if shes gay? We'd be back in same boat wouldnt we?

Can the gov't demand your your sexual orientation so that no gay males pat down males and no gay females pat down females?

Huh...

TSA Agents Took My Son


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c68_1255814043

quote:

Originally posted by Stilez TSA Agents Took My Son http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c68_1255814043

Emergency Xanax... uhuh....

Re: Re: Re: So what is the big deal with the TSA pat downs?

quote:

Originally posted by spitty says you! i fly for this reason alone

i think i love you.

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter Just close your eyes, and think of England

i love that expression.

Karl Denninger lays it out plain and simple here:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=173092

i don't bitch about people just doing their jobs, but today, i thought i might get a finger up my bum because the security guards were checking every nook and cranny today at ottawa airport.

the funny part was, i was in my uniform (getting on a connecting flight to toronto). you'd think common sense prevails... i'm like one of the least security risk at airports lol

Seriously, I've said it before and I'll say it again - if they truly wanted to prevent terrorist attacks then they would let people legally carry weapons onto the planes. Mohamed Jihad over there isn't going to pull out his box cutter when Mitch Doomsday next to him is packing an AK-47.

This isn't really about security, it's about expanding government powers so that they can seize more drugs and other "undesirable" items. Unfortunately the majority of people are so all-consumed with the ridiculous idea that trying to forcibly confiscate everyone else's weapons will make them safe, that they can't see the very obvious ulterior motives at work.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced then I guess he better book more time off work then He could also just learn to fly and buy his own plane.....see there are solutions.....if you really don't like being searched then you can find alternatives....using these planes isn't a right.

gotta love that logic

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH gotta love that logic

wait till they start bringing out the rubber gloves

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced wait till they start bringing out the rubber gloves

pretty soon the TSA will be jerking you off to see if you're hiding any deadly substances.

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