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-- Islam is a Religion of Peace?
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Originally posted by Esiotrat We're not assuming. It says so in the Koran! They're described as being eternally young, have big gorgeous eyes, a modest gaze, pure beings of amazing beauty and kindness blabladeebla.

I think it's important to mention and consider alternative perspectives to literalism concerning the matter of the 72 Virgins in particular, and the Houris in general, particularly as they are understood within the context of the Islamic mystical tradition of Sufism.

First, a quick snippet from a scholar on Arabic that I lifted from the Wiki entry on the subject (something I admittedly try to avoid doing, but it bears relevance here):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri

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Margaret Nydell states that mainstream Muslims regard this belief about 72 virgins in the same way that mainstream Christians regard the belief that after death they will be issued with wings and a harp, and walk on clouds.[64]

More significantly, this is an excerpt from The Heart of Islam: Enduring Values For Humanity, from the contemporary eminent Islamic scholar, philosopher, and Sufi Seyyed Hossein Nasr:

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...in the West, certain critics of Islams sought to denigrate the Islamic paradise as nothing but a realm of sensual gratification in the same way that the paradise of the Native Americans was described as 'the happy hunting ground.' This childish and shallow criticism has now returned when the question of suicide bombers who are considered martyrs by their supporters comes up in the Western media. It is true that the Quran uses very concrete language to describe heaven and hell, a language that should not be strange in its concreteness, if not the specific symbols used, for those who are familiar with the Book of Revelation or the Divine Comedy. This concrete Quaranic language is, however, symbolic, and must not be taken only literally, although the literal meaning also has its significance. Now, the descriptions of paradise seems at first sight to be simply the sublimation of earthly pleasures, including sexuality. In reality, the reverse is true. Every legitimate experience of a pleasing nature here on earth is only a shadow and reflection of a paradisal reality. The most intense physical experience for the human being, which is sexual union, is a reflection of the union of the soul with God and reflects on its own level something of that supreme joy and expansion.

it's really nice that god allows us to make up our own minds on what he "really meant" in his holy books. nothing like interpretation to start a new sect, law or war. good work god.

Terrorism is probably in severe decline in the UK, now the IRA have mostly ceased their activities.

I wish they now formed the Lazy Irish Republican Army.

Just saying.

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Originally posted by Lira I wish they now formed the Lazy Irish Republican Army.

Kind of redundant, isn't it?

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost Kind of redundant, isn't it?

But the acronym is much much better!

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Originally posted by Lira But the acronym is much much better!

We've been speaking to a LIRA spambot, this whole time.

If Muslim youth could get a hamburger and some pussy, 99% of them would say, "fuck al-qaeda".

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin If Muslim youth could get a hamburger and some pussy, 99% of them would say, "fuck al-qaeda".

But still 1%, or 15,000,000 of them would embrace Al-Qaeda? Still that's a lot of Muslim terrorists. We need to add cheeseburgers and sushi to the menu. And throw in some ladyboys too.

of course not

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Originally posted by Jake Benson And throw in some ladyboys too.

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throw in some ladyboys

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some ladyboys

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ladyboys

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Originally posted by Kenny Rogers i think shias are most prominent in the countries of iraq, iran, pakistan, yemen etc, where most extremes comes from. i dont know anything about what tribe bin laden belongs to or how many % of terrorism he is included in. maybe they join forces, to fight a common enemy. shias are considered the most extreme anyway.

Salafis would normally be considered the most extreme. These are the fundis and they are technically a part of the Sunni division practicing the faith as they believe the contemporaries of and immediate successors to Muhammad did. You've probably heard of them referred to as Wahabi (spelling?); ususally by Shias in a derogatory sence as they view the founder of that school of thought as a heritic. Anyway, the Salafis tend to be the most politically active in seeking overthrow of the house of Saud and other arabic ruling houses. I do believe that Osama's theology falls in line with the Salafi school; however, I'm not sure if he would actually consider himself part thereof; certainly, most of the Bin Laden family don't fall into that catagory.

Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Arbiter Let's get a couple of things straight, There is no "rise of terrorism and violence.

A few world news items from the last couple of days;

15 12.2010 (Chahbahar, Iran) - Forty-one Shias are blasted to death in their own mosque by a Sunni suicide bomber.

15.12.2010 (Nalchik, Russia) - A moderate cleric is shot in front of his home for 'resisting religious extremism.'

15 12.2010.(Kandahar, Afghanistan) - Three children are disassembled by fundamentalists, who hide a bomb on a bicycle.

14.12.2010 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Sectarian rivals murder three more Shia pilgrims with a roadside bomb.

14 12.2010 (Diyala, Iraq) - Two Shia pilgrims are blown to bits by
Sunni bombers.

14.12.2010 (Peshawar, Pakistan) - Sunnis attack an 'unIslamic' shrine and shoot three Sufi infidels to death.

I have to say, they look pretty terrifying and violent to me, but I�m probably not looking at the poor oppressed perpetrators of these events with a sufficiently sympathetic eye.

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So much for the rise of terrorism and violence.

Yep, just another day at the office for the religion of peace.

(I won�t bother with the other �thing�)

Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Znack I have to say, they look pretty terrifying and violent to me, but I�m probably not looking at the poor oppressed perpetrators of these events with a sufficiently sympathetic eye.

Yes. Count the misses.











And, I'm doing well, how are you?

Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Znack 15 12.2010.(Kandahar, Afghanistan) - Three children are disassembled by fundamentalists, who hide a bomb on a bicycle.

Really? Disassembled? That has to be the most clinical way of saying "blown to shit" that I've ever heard.

BTW, I would suggest to you that most of these events are politically motivated rather then theologically motivated... Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan are all places with stronger tribal associations then national or even religious associations... the tribes fight for influence all the time.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson But still 1%, or 15,000,000 of them would embrace Al-Qaeda? Still that's a lot of Muslim terrorists. We need to add cheeseburgers and sushi to the menu. And throw in some ladyboys too.

I'm sure you got the lady boys covered! FABULOUS!!1

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Originally posted by Jake Benson But still 1%, or 15,000,000 of them would embrace Al-Qaeda? Still that's a lot of Muslim terrorists. We need to add cheeseburgers and sushi to the menu. And throw in some ladyboys too.

So basically,the way to end world terrorism is to send all extremists to Pattaya.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I would suggest to you that most of these events are politically motivated rather then theologically motivated... Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan...

and India and the Sudan and Algeria and America and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and Kuwait and and Ethiopia and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Mali and Angola and the Ukraine and Uganda and Sweden and. . . . wherever else the Religion of Peace next decides to find offence, and deal with it by indiscriminately slaughtering a greater or lesser number of the local citizenry.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Znack and India and the Sudan and Algeria and America and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and Kuwait and and Ethiopia and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Mali and Angola and the Ukraine and Uganda and Sweden and. . . . wherever else the Religion of Peace next decides to find offence, and deal with it by indiscriminately slaughtering a greater or lesser number of the local citizenry.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that if you took away the religion, you'd still be left with the motivations for violence. The mistake you're making is treating the religion as a cause. It is merely a context for justifications already found outside of the religion, so your point is simply and woefully moot.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by EddieZilker You seem to be ignoring the fact that if you took away the religion, you'd still be left with the motivations for violence. The mistake you're making is treating the religion as a cause. It is merely a context for justifications already found outside of the religion, so your point is simply and woefully moot.

DING DING DING!

Politics is the motive, not faith.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard DING DING DING! Politics is the motive, not faith.

Except when you kill the other guy because he prays to a different imaginary friend than you do, then faith is the motive.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Moongoose Except when you kill the other guy because he prays to a different imaginary friend than you do, then faith is the motive.

Moderate, reasonable Muslims don't do that, extremist wackjobs do.

If it wasn't for religion, they would still find a reason to kill you. (re: what Eddie said)

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Originally posted by Moongoose Except when you kill the other guy because he prays to a different imaginary friend than you do, then faith is the motive.

Yeah but that isn't why they're killing people, as exemplified by that violence between muslims is just as or more prevelent then against others... especially considering violence between muslims is expressly forbiden by their faith.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Moongoose Except when you kill the other guy because he prays to a different imaginary friend than you do, then faith is the motive.

No. Even if imaginary friends were entirely out of the equation, there are other more powerful and compelling motives than imaginary friends for killing. Imaginary friends are simply rallying contexts, much like atheism has proven to be for berating people with imaginary friends.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard DING DING DING! Politics is the motive, not faith.

What? That's not always the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

There have been several wars fought due entirely to religion. I agree that politics influences most violence, but the violent religious extremists don't view their hate as political.

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