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-- The next biggest thing? A Tablet!
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Originally posted by srussell0018 RIM's OS is slowly dying out thanks to Apple and Android. I'd stay away from any BB products.

This isn't your typical Blackberry OS, its a QNX designed OS which RIM acquired a while back, QNX has a very good reputation for designing user-friendly and high performance environments...full flash support and true multitasking anyone?

I agree with the SD card slot though, I'm really not sure why it isn't coming out on the first version, but I expect them to get this right with version 2...

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Originally posted by spiderpig Because it sucks, and no developers want to build apps for it due to the horrendous process you have to go through.

Such an enlightened response

In all seriousness though, the playbook stacks up extremely well compared to the other options available, maybe it's not iOS, but so what? And I agree that it's a bit harder for developers to get applications out with Blackberry, but thats slowely changing, and with full flash support and the ability to run android apps, I don't think it's a deal breaker...


I think with all the options available, the best thing to do if your looking at a tablet is to go to a couple stores and play with them all, and see which ones best for you.

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Originally posted by geroin well then you lose a massive market of people who don't use apple products, i don't really see a choice for developers.. what else? i really do not see anything shitty about it. re: ipad2, if that thing supported flash i'd go for it..

1. The developers are doing just fine creating for iOS, they could care less about making apps for RIM. They DO have a choice. Developers have been paid out over $2 Billion by Apple. Do you now see why they don't give 2 shits about RIM?

2. Flash is dying a slow death. Ever hear about HTML5?

RIM knows it is losing the battle, hence the rumors of BBM coming to iOS and Android, and Android Apps running on the PlayBook.

Read this if you have time...

http://blog.jamiemurai.com/2011/02/you-win-rim/

RIM is dying one way or the other. They're either going to go the way of the Dodo, or get bought up by Apple or Google within the next 3-5 years.

The Storm was a huge failure, and even staunch anti-Mac people are quickly moving from Blackberries to Android phones/tablets.

Blackberry was originally meant for businesses because of their email and web-browsing capability. Why would you pay the same amount for a Blackberry when you can get so much more out of an Apple or Android product?

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Originally posted by spiderpig 1. The developers are doing just fine creating for iOS, they could care less about making apps for RIM. They DO have a choice. Developers have been paid out over $2 Billion by Apple. Do you now see why they don't give 2 shits about RIM?

A unit's worth shouldn't be determined by how many apps can run on it. Having said that, the playbook will run Android apps in addition to the 10,000+ in App World. I don't think anyone is going to be limiting themselves application wise, by choosing a playbook over an ipad2.

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2. Flash is dying a slow death. Ever hear about HTML5?

Bottom line is that right now, flash is a major player when it comes to online media and applications, and having a device that supports it is a plus, in my books anyways.

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RIM knows it is losing the battle, hence the rumors of BBM coming to iOS and Android, and Android Apps running on the PlayBook. Read this if you have time... http://blog.jamiemurai.com/2011/02/you-win-rim/

Why is it always a battle? Sure, blackberry will never outsell Android or even Apple quarterly, but again, that doesn't mean for the right person a blackberry device is not a viable option. Android apps running on a playbook is not a sign that RIM is failing, its a great option to have in an environment. And offering BBM isn't RIM failing either, they're trying to capitalize on the popularity and demand for secure messaging, by offering it on other platforms for a monthly fee....

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Originally posted by LightsOut Android apps running on a playbook is not a sign that RIM is failing, its a great option to have in an environment. And offering BBM isn't RIM failing either, they're trying to capitalize on the popularity and demand for secure messaging, by offering it on other platforms for a monthly fee....

Well, it kinda is, in a sense. If you can't beat em', join em'

Point is, RIM was a juggernaut not too long ago, after the unprecedented explosion of mobile apps via iOS, and followed by Android, RIM TRIED to join the party, and failed. Yes, they failed.

If they were confident, and had succeeded with their App World, do you think they would be allowing Android Apps to run on their devices? Hell no. They're at a point where they have to ride another company's coat tails to try and lure users to use their devices.

Now tell me, with all honesty, does that look like they're failing?

It's kinda like when MySpace was once king of Social Media, then facebook came and crushed them, they've given up the fight and have allowed users to log into Myspace using their fb account. Someone had said it was a "formal surrender ceremony".

I think RIM has come to the realization that they simply cannot compete with iOS and Android, so what's the next logical step for them? Pack up shop and give up? Or bow down and partner with one of the competitors with hopes that it will save the company? They chose the latter obviously.

If that's not failing, I don't know what is.

I just don't get how they failed....

You seem to be basing everything completely on consumer sales figures.

Blackberry has always been a niche device.

Using myspace as a comparison is hardly accurate. You could maybe make that case with Nokia. But RIM has never been "on-top". Unless your talking exclusively enterprise.

Sure, in recent years RIM has taken a step towards general consumers, isn't that the logical approach? And your right, they'll never be as big (and I guess worthwhile then?) as Apple, but that doesn't mean they don't make a high quality product that has a market.

I've owned RIM stock for nearly 9 years now. Every year it grows exponentially. Does that sound like failing to you? A company that posts profit quarter after quarter, year after year??

Saying that RIM is dead and failed is grossly inaccurate. Maybe they aren't growing as quickly as say Apple (which has been around for decades), but they're two genuinely different devices that do not necessarily appeal to the same type of people. I think RIM is quite happy with their growth. Would they like to grow more? Who wouldn't. But calling them a failure is a pretty long stretch. Their was a time not so long ago when owning a mac computer was laughable, now look where they are. should they have packed it in and called it quits back in the day?

Bottom line here is that with this type of competition the only real winner here is the end consumer. Is a Playbook for everybody? No. Is an iPad for everybody? No. Is it great to have a choice? Absolutely.

To be more specific and clear, they failed in their attempt at producing an eco system for applications. Developers hate their process, hence the low count of apps.

What is driving users nowadays to devices? Applications.

I totally understand and get we're you're coming from, believe me. I used a BB for years and never thought i'd let it go. The reality is, consumers now are wanting more because companies can deliver more.

Apple and Google have set such a high bar that consumers EXPECT to have amazing experiences with their devices, and what helps users get amazing experiences with their devices aside from the obvious (OS)? You got it, applications.

Sure RIM is turning in profits, of course they are, but they are in a situation where they have to resort to using another company's technology. Would anyone have predicted that a few years ago when they were innovating?

I never said the company itself has failed (I said App World failed), I said they're failing, and i'm certain they don't feel good about adopting another company's technology, especially since it's a direct competitor.

How would you feel if you created something, it did so poorly that you had to implement a competitor's product? Wouldn't you feel like you're failing?

Again, I see your point mate, but you also need to mine. I would like to say RIM has to step up if they want the market share that they lost back, but it might be too late.

i wouldnt say rim would close up shop or sell the company, but they are trailing in certain ends of the market. they need to stop playing catch up in the cellular world because a lot of the features on their phones are already existing on high end smartphones. they also seem to come out with features that dont change the industry, but always seem like they should have come out with something better each year a handset rolls out. and this is coming from someone who loves their blackberry and would still keep one until i upgrade.

rim products as stated are not for everyone. choice like mentioned before is good for everyone. when there is a monopoly on handsets it dulls everyone out. apple products are great (i own many) but im not a fanboy to the point where i have downplay each other product out in the market.

the ipad had something before it. it had a whole company that has engineered computers, mp3 players, desktops, laptops and had a whole cult prior to its introduction. the playbook doesnt really have that type of mentality behind it. so in terms of the market, i would think apple has a huge advantage over rim in terms of word on the street and marketing. most people who buy apple products are already familiar with its use / they are also brainwashed into thinking its the best and only product out there. pay a premium and be part of a cult. pay the premium and you have a nice computer sitting on your countertop in your new condo or dental office. new and want to be successful? your personal life is sure to have apple products surround you like any movie filmed in new york.

the ipad is great, but i dont think its the only thing people should look at. then again, once people make the jump of buying an apple product, why should they consider anything else?


btw i dont think torch is failure, i see plenty of people using one.

I said the Storm, not the Torch, and I've never seen anyone who owns a Torch, while I've seen hundreds with iPhones/Androids.

quote:

Originally posted by spiderpig

Completely missed where you said it was app world that failed, I took it as RIM was failing instead, and I do somewhat agree with you on the App World part. App World has never taken off like it has for Apple, and it does piss me off that RIM doesn't seem too bothered by this. They also seem to have banked quite a lot on QNX being its savior, and it very well could be, but we'll have to wait and see. Even if QNX is all they say it is and more, lets be realistic, RIM won't even touch Apple is terms of popularity and sales. Apple is a marketing machine and they have a quality product. As far as running Android Apps, I still think this is a plus, and not simply Blackberry resorting to using another companies technology. Blackberry and Android applications just both happen to use java development environments, so its only natural to consider allowing cross platform support, as you said, app world hasn't been a success and its not so easy to applications out with RIM.

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Originally posted by Dior Homme then again, once people make the jump of buying an apple product, why should they consider anything else? btw i dont think torch is failure, i see plenty of people using one.

I think a lot of people share this sentiment. Which may not be a bad thing?

And yeah, the torch is a step in the right direction for RIM.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 I said the Storm, not the Torch, and I've never seen anyone who owns a Torch, while I've seen hundreds with iPhones/Androids.

yes, correction storm. and there are plenty of torches here in toronto. and this is after people thought it would be a flop. it may be based on numbers, but i see plenty of them. androids, not as much.

quote:

Originally posted by Dior Homme yes, correction storm. and there are plenty of torches here in toronto. and this is after people thought it would be a flop. it may be based on numbers, but i see plenty of them. androids, not as much.

Is Verizon used in Canada? I really have no clue about cell phone providers there, but maybe the reason there's way more Androids here is the abundance of phones that use their OS on the Verizon network, which has a clear dominance over any other provider in the US.

I guess I'm still a little bitter about the Storm that I rushed out to buy. Worst phone I've ever had. Only positive thing was that some high school kid bought it on Craigslist for $200 haha

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Is Verizon used in Canada? I really have no clue about cell phone providers there, but maybe the reason there's way more Androids here is the abundance of phones that use their OS on the Verizon network, which has a clear dominance over any other provider in the US. I guess I'm still a little bitter about the Storm that I rushed out to buy. Worst phone I've ever had. Only positive thing was that some high school kid bought it on Craigslist for $200 haha

Verizon is not used here. Bell is probably the substitute but we only have 4 major carriers and a few small ones which are mostly owned by the major ones. Bell, Rogers, Telus, Fido. Fido being owned by Rogers. Koodo is owned by Telus and the other ones are much smaller. Wind, Public Mobile, Mobilicity, Virgin and i think one more...

There are androids out here but its not as apparent as say 40% iphone, 40% blackberry and the reset is divided into android, nokia, samsung, HTC etc.


If somone has one of those other phones i mentioned its because its a lower end phone.. (from what i see at least). Unless you have an HTC, those i find are really good phones. i wish there were more androids out here but its mostly blackberry vs iphone. a very annoying battle here in toronto. everyone here seems very partial to both. id get an android if i didnt love my blackberry.

storm is okay... but im holding out for the bold touch later this year or something better. upgrading phones to me is useless and a waste of money. thats probably because im not into as much anymore.

Yeah Verizon is the behemoth here, and they carry both Blackberries and a number of Android phones, but you see way more people around carrying Androids than BBs.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 RIM's OS is slowly dying out thanks to Apple and Android. I'd stay away from any BB products. I personally have a 64gb ipad and I love it. I also use an iMac at home, though, so the compatibility between the two isn't an issue for me. If you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend the iPad over any of the others, but then again, I tend to prefer Mac products over anything else. I've messed around with a few of my friends' Android phones, and they just don't have that.....je ne sais quoi.

Well that explains that. This post had no useful contribution. If you actually looked at any of the other products you'd notice many advantages to the other products. ie. QNX run on the playbook is not the same OS that they use in the phones. It's considered one of the most stable and dominant OSs in the industry.

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Originally posted by Dr. Z ie. QNX run on the playbook is not the same OS that they use in the phones. It's considered one of the most stable and dominant OSs in the industry.

Which will never quite stack up to the Apple or Android OS, so I don't know what point you're trying to make. Yes the Playbook is a viable option, but is certainly not the best option.

I predict problems with the playbook.

Tablet's are in between mobiles devices and computers. Apple has mastered both, while RIM has success with just their phones. I think it will take a couple revisions before RIM gets it right with their tablet.

Personally, I have both RIM and Apple products. When I update my blackberry (software, apps, whatever), there's always problems. It never goes smoothly. Has anyone noticed that after a software update, blackberrys are a mess? Emails are gone, Icons/apps are never in the same spot. I still have to run old software on my blackberry because the bluetooth doesn't pair properly with my 2010 car.

Apple on the other hand, always get it right. And if there's a glitch, the next revision always fixes it.

If this was RIM's 2nd Revision tablet vs Apple's 1st, I'd say close match. But going for the playbook I feel is too risky and I just get the feeling that I am going to spend some hours dealing with errors/bugs each month.

BUT the tablet can tether wifi (saves $20-30 month in a new data plan if you already own a blackberry).

Is it worth it? After all, blackberry could surprise me and come out with a product that is flawless. Highly likely IMO, so I think I'm going with the IPAD 2. But still not 100%... I'll probably do what LightsOut says and try em both before making a final decision...

quote:

Originally posted by HotSoup Personally, I have both RIM and Apple products. When I update my blackberry (software, apps, whatever), there's always problems. It never goes smoothly. Has anyone noticed that after a software update, blackberrys are a mess? Emails are gone, Icons/apps are never in the same spot. I still have to run old software on my blackberry because the bluetooth doesn't pair properly with my 2010 car. ays and try em both before making a final decision...

You must be doing something wrong because I never have problems. And I don't do anything complicated. Its actually very easy and straightforward.

I backup about once a month and even software updates are fine. Although I'm not liking the new OS6 for BB. The calendar is worse and the browsing and horrible in terms of page display. Everything is zzomed in like I'm blind and can't see the majority of the page. Even as I type this message on my bb I find it annoying I can't zoom out.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 Which will never quite stack up to the Apple or Android OS, so I don't know what point you're trying to make. Yes the Playbook is a viable option, but is certainly not the best option.

Let me do some work for you. Click here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX. Read a bit. Then click here http://www.qnx.com/company/customer_stories/. Read a bit. If you don't realize how measly android or apple os is compared to qnx by now, I give up on you.

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Originally posted by Dr. Z Let me do some work for you. Click here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX. Read a bit. Then click here http://www.qnx.com/company/customer_stories/. Read a bit. If you don't realize how measly android or apple os is compared to qnx by now, I give up on you.

Just because you're a Blackberry fanboy, doesn't mean that QNX spells the demise of Apple or Android. And how is showing a list of companies that have utilized QNX mean that it's the best? Wow BMW uses it??? It must be good then!

You might as well give up on me, because I still can't see any way in hell that the Playbook will come anywhere close to out-selling the iPad.

PS. QNX is a Unix-like OS, much like the Apple OS. I've worked with both, and they're really not that much different from a performance standpoint.

Besides, you can have the best OS in the world, but it doesn't matter when RIM fails so hard at making touchscreen interfaces.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 Just because you're a Blackberry fanboy, doesn't mean that QNX spells the demise of Apple or Android.

Just because you're an apple fanboy, doesn't mean that iOS spells the demise of RIM.

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And how is showing a list of companies that have utilized QNX mean that it's the best? Wow BMW uses it??? It must be good then!

Have you no idea how big of a market share all of those companies have? Every ridiculous sentence you write goes through a QNX Cisco router/server.

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You might as well give up on me, because I still can't see any way in hell that the Playbook will come anywhere close to out-selling the iPad.

Who said the PlayBook will outsell the iPad?

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PS. QNX is a Unix-like OS, much like the Apple OS. I've worked with both, and they're really not that much different from a performance standpoint.

You clearly haven't and are just bullshitting. I met the CEO of QNX and it's a message based OS that focuses on performance due to the micro-kernel being so light. There's a reason why enterprise servers run on it.

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Besides, you can have the best OS in the world, but it doesn't matter when RIM fails so hard at making touchscreen interfaces.

Actually, you're right, I might as well give up on you with statements like this.

Goodbye.

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Originally posted by Dr. Z Every ridiculous sentence you write goes through a QNX Cisco router/server.

Oh no shit? I guess being a CCNA doesn't mean that I already know that

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You clearly haven't and are just bullshitting. I met the CEO of QNX and it's a message based OS that focuses on performance due to the micro-kernel being so light. There's a reason why enterprise servers run on it.

Holy shit you met the CEO of QNX and he said really good things about his OS? That's a fucking shock. Meeting Dan Dodge doesn't make you an expert on anything other than name-dropping. How'd his dick taste btw?

The only advantage Neutrino has in its essence of being a microkernal OS is that it provides protection against drivers, applications, protocol stacks, etc. failing and affecting other components or the kernel itself, since they're operating in memory-protected space outside of the actual kernel. So, no, QNX doesn't focus on performance, it focuses on protection.

Yay! any of my tablet's components can be automatically restarted if they fail, instead of having to restart them myself! QNX has been around for a long time, and yes, it does have many benefits especially in the field of networking, but that doesn't make it the be all and end all for computer OS's.

Interviewer: "Hey guy who works for QNX, is your OS the best?"
Guy who works for QNX: "Yes."
Interviewer: "Oh, okay, I'll take your word for it then."

Does anyone here have tablets/is buying one?

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