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-- Sasha is now using Traktor!!!
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Originally posted by n3lly I think 'laptop/controller' dj's should learn how to play on CDJ's not because laptops are lame, but because every club will have a cdj there. It's a solid and reliable enough medium to play your songs from. A club wont have a spare laptop sitting around with all your tunes on it. The amount of times I've seen laptop dj's give up their sets because they can't play on cdj's is hilarious. "no no no i can't play on cdj's i'll only play with my laptop" The ability to play on cdj's is just a handy backup.

That's a valid point, and I suppose most clubs now have 2000's so you can still use the mp3s via USB. I just wish they weren't so damn expensive. :P

@Ryan: I understand the love of physical media, but CDs don't really feel physical to me when they're just CDRs in a wallet. You just slide it in and manipulate it like an mp3. It's not like vinyl. But if somebody already has a wallet full of CDs, I can understand them just wanting to use it like they always have.

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Originally posted by n3lly The amount of times I've seen laptop dj's give up their sets because they can't play on cdj's is hilarious. "no no no i can't play on cdj's i'll only play with my laptop" The ability to play on cdj's is just a handy backup.

Indeed, I always have 4 CDs full with my absolute must play tunes (Duplicated so 8 in total) in the event that something goes wrong. I have only ever had to call on this once but it�s once more than I would like to be in the situation where I would have to stop playing altogether.
I actually have the tracks as CD Audio files in the event that the club doesn�t have CDJs that support MP3.

Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Quazar That's a valid point, and I suppose most clubs now have 2000's so you can still use the mp3s via USB. I just wish they weren't so damn expensive. :P

Even with a memory stick though, it's the art of actually beat matching on a cdj that i'm talking about. Laptop dj's and the software they use can often lead them to rely on a sync button here or there or a quick stare at the laptop screen to see if the beat grids are lined up etc.

But yes i agree that there is a separation with cd's. It's no where near as nice as vinyl but the convenience was what won peoples hearts over. Let alone the fact you only had to pay for the cd's you were burning your illegally downloaded tracks on to.

Nem, i do the same. Although i don't update those cd's often enough. I should really burn a new batch right now! ha

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Originally posted by Quazar The one thing I don't understand about the industry right now is the love of CDJs. They're dumb, and they've always been dumb (obviously they're good gear from a technical standpoint, I simply mean in concept). It should have gone from vinyl straight to mp3s, but instead we have this middle stage with CDJs. It's funny how I've been told by some DJs I should "learn CDJs, cause midi controllers and laptops are lame". To me it seems ridiculous to buy something to play a dying medium. Vinyl will always be respected and unique, because it actually SOUNDS different, but CDJs play the same digital tracks in a more cumbersome way. Who knows, maybe it's just because the first time I started DJing was back in the latter vinyl days (02-03), and then I gave it up and have been getting into it again recently with a midi controller + laptop. Burning a bunch of CDs just seems silly. (I know the new ones have USB inputs, and they'd probably be great to use as controllers, but I don't see why you'd look down on a midi controller, but respect the use of CDJs as mp3 controllers)

What happens when you're laptop crashes and you can't get it back up? It rarely happens, but when it does, what are you going to do? If you know how to at least use CDJ's you can salvage a night vs. being able to do nothing.....

Same with vinyl, but unless you plan on spinning vinyl these days, you're not carrying that crate of records to a gig anymore....

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Originally posted by progress What happens when you're laptop crashes and you can't get it back up? It rarely happens, but when it does, what are you going to do? If you know how to at least use CDJ's you can salvage a night vs. being able to do nothing..... Same with vinyl, but unless you plan on spinning vinyl these days, you're not carrying that crate of records to a gig anymore....

And that happened to me before way back when Spundae was at Circus. That day it wasn't just Serato that crashed, my motherboard fried!!!! Luckily, I always bring CD's with me so I finished off my set with CD's.

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Originally posted by DjWoody And that happened to me before way back when Spundae was at Circus. That day it wasn't just Serato that crashed, my motherboard fried!!!! Luckily, I always bring CD's with me so I finished off my set with CD's.

But that's always been the case, what if your stylus snaps off? You always need a backup!

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Originally posted by progress What happens when you're laptop crashes and you can't get it back up? It rarely happens, but when it does, what are you going to do? If you know how to at least use CDJ's you can salvage a night vs. being able to do nothing..... Same with vinyl, but unless you plan on spinning vinyl these days, you're not carrying that crate of records to a gig anymore....

It's sad, I never see turntables in the booth at clubs anymore. I'm sure they have some in their store rooms, but still... I miss seeing them up there. :/

You guys make good points. If a CDJ crashes, the club will probably have a spare. If your laptop crashes, I doubt they have one with your software of choice sitting in the back.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Heya Fledz, feel free, although I have to say I am quite surprised as I had already prepared my asbestos undies for this one but so far the flamethrower mob havn't arrived he he. Cheers Nem

That's a red dwarf quote if ever I seen one!

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly I think 'laptop/controller' dj's should learn how to play on CDJ's not because laptops are lame, but because every club will have a cdj there.

Do you really think this is true though?

People said this about 1200/1210's not long back, I know of several clubs that got rid of TTs a few years back.

I've been to a few clubs (not world class by any means) and all they have are shitty rack mounts CD players for top 40 djs to stop-start DJ with and that's it, they hire in CDJS or the performer brings their owns gear/laptop. It's mad.

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Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Do you really think this is true though? People said this about 1200/1210's not long back, I know of several clubs that got rid of TTs a few years back. I've been to a few clubs (not world class by any means) and all they have are shitty rack mounts CD players for top 40 djs to stop-start DJ with and that's it, they hire in CDJS or the performer brings their owns gear/laptop. It's mad.

I'm a firm believe that generally trying as much different equipment as possible can only help. DJing has a strong technical part to it and the more experience you can get using different kit the better. Once you've learnt your way around a few different mixers in detail you get used to the common features and find you can walk up to one you've never seen before and use it straight away. Same goes for turntables, CDJs, DJ software and controllers. And understanding how something like a turntable works will probably also improve a DJ's understanding of the software they use.

The fact that knowing how to find your way around any install mixer and CDJs gives you a back-up option is a big bonus. Saves you taking spares yourself...

There might be a point when installed CDJs disappear from clubs. If so, with things like the CDJ2000 around I don't think that's going to happen within the next 5 years at least - residents love them because it at least reduces the amount of kit they have to bring with them week in week out.

And when they do disappear and every club has an installed laptop, we'll be saying that you should get used to using whatever the standard software is.

quote:

Originally posted by DjWoody And that happened to me before way back when Spundae was at Circus. That day it wasn't just Serato that crashed, my motherboard fried!!!! Luckily, I always bring CD's with me so I finished off my set with CD's.

Damn, not the place I would want that to happen!!!

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Back in the days of good ol� wholesome vinyl Sasha was one of the most clinical mixers out there. The whole crux of the issue is this... many people still associate the ability of a DJ to be his skill in matching the tempo of two tunes to one another in order to keep the music flowing. This is still the perception of many bedroom DJs today. The reality is that this was really only ever a factor in the late 80s early 90s when this was truly revered and looked up to. But as things progressed it�s mainly your entry point DJs who took this as an important thing because this was what they were currently learning. Because it is a skill that takes some time to become proficient in and longer to actually genuinely master there is a generation that carries resentment to anything that basically throws the time they took to master this out of the window. I personally felt this for some time but realised I needed to get over this stigma in order to progress. I needed to accept that it�s my DJ experience that makes me the DJ that I am not the method I use to match beats. There is so much more, i.e. your ability to read the crowd, to program a set, things that can�t be taught to anyone that is in the home environment. I used to believe that things like Traktor have lowered the standards of DJs but in actual fact it�s fair to say that it has actually raised it. At least now, when you are out in a club you are less likely to hear that train wreck mix alongside piss poor track selection. Granted, it makes talentless people sound a bit better than they really are, but then let�s face it, who was the last awesome DJ to make it big without a good production to their name? One of the gigs that I play monthly, a mate of mine sets up his laptop and as it�s just us we don�t bother switching to mine, so my whole set up involves taking headphones and a memory stick with me. The dancefloor doesn�t care what we mix on, they just want to hear a well engineered set with good progression and some filthy tracks that make them feel good at the end of the night. It�s a popular night that keeps growing and people are coming for the music. I actually heard some girls comparing us to one of the other nights there and they said they preferred ours as the overall vibe was better and the flow of the music was really good. The other guys use mainly CDs and vinyl, (now their skills aren�t great but they are good guys so I hold them no grudges), but what was interesting is that they actually mentioned our use of laptop as a plus rather than a negative. Now you and I both know that in reality it is harder to spin with proper Decks than a latop for sure, but the reality is that perceptions are changing and people are making the connection between DJs and laptops as being a natural progression. For the record my friend (Ago) and I have about 50 years of DJing in the club circuit between us so that will make a difference. Another thing to consider is that some of the greatest DJs of all time didn�t even mix records; they just lived and died by their track selection. Selection is EVERYTHING, beat matching is a technical point. This doesn�t mean I don�t appreciate DJs who can really rock with vinyl, I genuinely wish this is still where it was at as I really enjoyed this time in the industry, but if you can�t beat them with your game, beat them at their game. Cheers Nem

You grew up didn't you? Awesome read by the way.

I totally like used to like Sasha and stuff but now like he uses a DVS and stuff so he's totally like not a good DJ anymore. Hawtin totally suxxxorz too.

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Originally posted by n3lly Here you go lads, 28 years ago. "For the people that don't know what a turntable is"

He's using sony walkman headphones!!

I started on CDJs but I bought 1200 TT's to learn playing vinyl. In the future I'll use Traktor or use a midi controller and do a "live set". I'm not just a DJ, i'm into my technology so it's enjoyable for me to try new things out.

But I also agree, if you're learning to DJ, at least start out with CDs or vinyl so you understand the technical background etc.

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Originally posted by Ash Parajuli But I also agree, if you're learning to DJ, at least start out with CDs or vinyl so you understand the technical background etc.

Really helps you learn and appreciate your tracks as well.

Yes, as you usually learn to hear what works with what better, even at a sub-conscious level. I'm still hearing and recognising why certain tracks worked so well together in very old mixes of mine, back then I just 'knew' they worked. If you start DJ'ing day one and don't spend hours learning to beat match, you don't cultivate this skill either.

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Originally posted by Kris G Yes, as you usually learn to hear what works with what better, even at a sub-conscious level. I'm still hearing and recognising why certain tracks worked so well together in very old mixes of mine, back then I just 'knew' they worked. If you start DJ'ing day one and don't spend hours learning to beat match, you don't cultivate this skill either.

That's a good point.

the other point combined with this, is that a laptop DJ can now turn up to a gig with no idea of how to beatmatch (and therefore in many cases with not a lot of time invested in to DJ'ing at all) and just play the music they have the drive. IMO, I think the quality of DJ's has gone down overall as you don't need to invest anywhere near as much time in to learning the craft as a whole. It's sometimes a case of just turn up and be nothing more than a jukebox.

Yeah, yeah "it's about track selection" etc, but how do you get to being good at track selection? How do you "just know" when things are going to work well together?

Practice & Investment (of time, not money). I'm not saying someone that can't beatmatch can't learn these other apsects, but in my experience, they're at a disadvantage as they didn't go through all those learning curves (and other pearls of wisdom/understanding) of having to work traditional DJ equipment.

I don't see why mixing with Traktor is any different than mixing with cdjs except you are just getting rid of the middle man (i.e the cds). It's so easy to beatmatch with cdjs that they might as well have a synch button.

People place way too much emphasis on beat matching when in fact it is just a means to an end. For the guy on the dancefloor it's all about the end product and if new technology helps improve that I'm all for it!

By the way I learnt to mix on Technic 1210s and still play my vinyl but I am seriously tempted by Traktor as it is looks so convenient to have you whole music collection right there in front of you on a hard drive.

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Originally posted by slaid05 I don't see why mixing with Traktor is any different than mixing with cdjs except you are just getting rid of the middle man (i.e the cds). It's so easy to beatmatch with cdjs that they might as well have a synch button. People place way too much emphasis on beat matching when in fact it is just a means to an end. For the guy on the dancefloor it's all about the end product and if new technology helps improve that I'm all for it! By the way I learnt to mix on Technic 1210s and still play my vinyl but I am seriously tempted by Traktor as it is looks so convenient to have you whole music collection right there in front of you on a hard drive.

Get Traktor and then say this.
It's very difficult to completely pry yourself away from looking at the screen.
You're not just removing the middle man. You're removing the skill it takes to know your music as well as you used to have to.

Also i don't completely agree with the "might as well have a sync button on cdj's" comment asI don't think it's as piss easy as you're making it out to be. Yeah it's not that difficult but it does require a good few months of practicing! And you can still have your off days after years of playing.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly Get Traktor and then say this. It's very difficult to completely pry yourself away from looking at the screen. You're not just removing the middle man. You're removing the skill it takes to know your music as well as you used to have to. Also i don't completely agree with the "might as well have a sync button on cdj's" comment asI don't think it's as piss easy as you're making it out to be. Yeah it's not that difficult but it does require a good few months of practicing! And you can still have your off days after years of playing. Steve

Very good points, and even though most know my sentiments on this fact, I'll still add that you may remove the middleamn of CD's, but you're replacing that with a screen that acts as both a physical and psychological barrier between you and the crowd.

As a DJ, dancing away and mixing while staring at a screen just simply does not have the same connection as someone whipping on a CD or vinyl and then just working the mixer. I believe even those few seconds to stare at a screen to select the next track, is enough to create a disconnect between th DJ, music and crowd.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I believe even those few seconds to stare at a screen to select the next track, is enough to create a disconnect between th DJ, music and crowd.

whats the difference between picking a next song looking at a screen, or turning your back to a crowd to fiddle through a cd wallet for the next song?

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Originally posted by bigherm whats the difference between picking a next song looking at a screen, or turning your back to a crowd to fiddle through a cd wallet for the next song?

very true

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Originally posted by Rodri Santos i find that having that outstanding gear next to you and using traktor is a bit disgusting, i'd kill for that gear and he is despising it, i don't see this as the opportunity of improving the set as a live act, i see this as the chance to be lazy.

oh look, people dancing.

who gives a fk?

quote:

Originally posted by bigherm whats the difference between picking a next song looking at a screen, or turning your back to a crowd to fiddle through a cd wallet for the next song?

+1

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