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Word travels fast by camel.

quote:

Originally posted by jonSun Im curious to know how a flooded stinkhole half way across the world heard about some hick burning a book before Americans heard about it.

the curse of twitter

Just to clarify from msnbc

quote:

Unlike the worldwide outcry that greeted the pastor�s plan to burn 200 copies of the Koran on Sept. 11 � which he ultimately abandoned � the event last week at the 50-member church was largely ignored by the news media. As of 2 p.m. on Friday, the video of the Koran�s burning on the church Web site had been viewed only 1,500 times.

So you see, the media was purposely trying not to report it, but since the church filmed their actions it still leaked out. This is not the media's fault, this is pastor Jones' fault pure and simple.

Also, to those suggesting that we somehow make it illegal here to burn sacred texts to avoid future situations like these, I can honestly tell you that doing that will do exactly opposite of what you're trying to prevent.

If he had burned 200 copies, would they have been 200 times as offended and killed 200 times as many people?

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Originally posted by srussell0018 If he had burned 200 copies, would they have been 200 times as offended and killed 200 times as many people?

Maybe if he had spread out the burnings. Say burn one copy per week. Every week a new outrage!

Looks like Pastor Jones is just getting started here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ad-78-hurt.html

quote:

Despite clear evidence that his actions have led to multiple murders and widespread violence in the Middle East, controversial Florida pastor Terry Jones has vowed to step up his provocative campaign against Islam. The radical pastor said that he was considering putting Islamic prophet Mohammed 'on trial' for his next 'day of judgement' publicity stunt. His last, in which he oversaw the burning of a copy of the Koran after a six-hour mock trial, has been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead and more than 150 injured. A second day of violence in Afghanistan today saw at least ten deaths, 78 injured and at least 17 arrests as protesters clash with security forces in Kandahar. There were also reports of attempted suicide attacks on a U.S. military base in Kabul, but these were not directly linked to Mr Jones's actions. But the vilified pastor remains unrepentant about his actions, and has even hinted that he will take his provocative stance further. He said in an interview today: 'It is definitely a consideration to stage a trial on the life of Mohammed in the future.' Such a move would trigger further violent protests in the Muslim world - even in more moderate Islamic states. But Mr Jones shows no signs of backing down, refusing to admit the violence is his fault, and apparently proud of his actions. In an interview at his Dove World Outreach Center today, the pastor at least admitted that he was saddened by the Afghan attacks - but added that he would burn the Koran again if given the chance. He told the New York Times: 'It was intended to stir the pot; if you don�t shake the boat, everyone will stay in their complacency. 'Emotionally, it�s not all that easy. People have tried to make us responsible for the people who are killed. It�s unfair and somewhat damaging. 'Did our action provoke them? Of course. Is it a provocation that can be justified? Is it a provocation that should lead to death? 'When lawyers provoke me, when banks provoke me, when reporters provoke me, I can�t kill them. That would not fly.' It is not surprising that Mr Jones should mention lawyers, banks and reporters as his tormentors. The pastor, whose church membership has dwindled and who is a hate figure in his own community, is also near broke.

Pfft who needs 200 copies? Let's go after the main guy Mohammed himself!

quote:

His last, in which he oversaw the burning of a copy of the Koran after a six-hour mock trial, has been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead and more than 150 injured.

Well, I would say that the people who actually committed the violence were "directly responsible" for it.

Muslims are not robots. They can choose whether to murder non-Muslims, even if a Koran gets burned somewhere.

No one in this thread seems to have considered the possibility that the book burning is an excuse for people to do killing they already want to do, but cannot do so without consequences. Religious reasons allow them to get away with it.

This case seems very similar to the one several years ago of the Danish cartoonists who published images of Muhammad. That event sparked riots all over the Middle East, but in the end it essentially proven to be a giant, orchestrated maneuver.

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Originally posted by Jackson He should be charged with their Murders...He's just scum, plain and simple.

Let's charge Americans every time a stupid moron in a rural area of a shitty Muslim country goes apeshit and starts killing people. Because third-world radicals are not responsible for their own actions, Americans are.

quote:

Originally posted by Jackson Although he didn't commit the murder, he was the cause of it.

And women who wear provocative clothing are the cause of rape.

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Originally posted by Jackson Agreed that he didn't break any laws, but should some law be put in place to prevent this from happening again?

Yes, ban the Koran.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 This reminds me of the time I blew up that Catholic church after they openly criticized The Da Vinci Code

God I remember that. After the movie there were WHORDS of angry Christians who blamed the West, lit shit on fire, and beheaded U.N. members.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson God I remember that. After the movie there were WHORDS of angry Christians who blamed the West, lit shit on fire, and beheaded U.N. members.

At least they were justified in doing so. I mean come on, that book is sacred.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Yeah let's charge Americans every time a stupid moron in a rural area of a shitty Muslim country goes apeshit and starts killing people. Because third-world radical Muslims are not responsible for their own actions, Americans are!

Fareed Zakaria pretty much illuminated the audit trail on this international incident, this morning on GPS. Basically, this asshole wouldn't have had a voice had Karzai not been so keen to capitalize off of Jones' burning the Qur'an, one week after he actually did it, in a speech calling for his arrest, in the United States. Karzai, who knew the U.S. wasn't going to do a damn thing (because he's lived in the U.S.) probably also knew he was throwing gasoline on the fire.

After that, Muslim Clerics got a hold of it and that motivated the surrounding demonstration but it wasn't the nominal number of demonstrators responsible for the violence but a few Taliban commandos that got into the camp and fucked the shit up - pretty much to capitalize off of, as well as being rationalized by, Jones' burning of the Qur'an.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker After that, Muslim Clerics got a hold of it and that motivated the surrounding demonstration but it wasn't the nominal number of demonstrators responsible for the violence but a few Taliban commandos that got into the camp and fucked the shit up - pretty much to capitalize off of, as well as being rationalized by, Jones' burning of the Qur'an.

Murdering innocent civilians is never rational.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Murdering innocent civilians is never rational.

Yeah, funny how it's taken since the Munich Olympic Games for terrorism to amount to a functional draw, in terms of strategic importance, causing lots of pain and carnage but yielding disproportionately little in terms of advancing anyone's cause, but one guy sets himself on fire and in less than a year, an entire region is given to tectonic change which actually serves to address many of the underlying problems in that region. It's like they had to have that one last gulp of artificial relevance before having to retreat back into the obscurity of a doctrine now proven to be a failure.

this guy is such a fucking douche. why is anyone taking him srs bzns? this whole thing angers me. the fact that he's doing these stunts on purpose, and the fact that people are killing others because of him.

If he hadn't burned the Koran, they would have found something else to get "offended" about because their interpretation of Islam demands that they kill non-Muslims until there are none left.

But the fact is he did it, even though he knew the consequences.

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Originally posted by Jackson But the fact is he did it, even though he knew the consequences.

Those murders weren't a consequence of him burning a Quran. They're a consequence of that whole ideology. It's false justification. An american accidentally dropping a Quran on the ground would probably justify wanton slaughter in their eyes.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Those murders weren't a consequence of him burning a Quran. They're a consequence of that whole ideology. It's false justification. An american accidentally dropping a Quran on the ground would probably justify wanton slaughter in their eyes.

Where-as an American not defacing a Qur'an in any way will also justify wanton slaughter.

quote:

Originally posted by Jackson But the fact is he did it, even though he knew the consequences.

No he didn't - he was just warned that there would be consequences. I'm sure that if they'd mentioned that innocent people would be killed during a protest, he wouldn't have had his little ceremony - not to mention there might have been a far more significant military presence at this UN Compound. Nobody knew this was exactly what would happen. You could have certainly guessed what might happen... but wouldn't that be admitting Pastor Jones was completely right?

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Where-as an American not defacing a Qur'an in any way will also justify wanton slaughter.

Well that's the whole point. There's no way to justify wanton slaughter, but they seem to be quite adept at finding ways to "justify" it in their eyes.

This sums it up for me:

quote:

Should Jones have burned the Koran? No. But not because doing so might incite some evil people halfway around the world to commit atrocities against innocents. Rather, he shouldn�t have done it was needlessly hurtful without adding any value to the debate. Indeed, aside from generating publicity for himself, he�s likely generated sympathy for Islam and disdain for churches of his ilk. But Jones is not the slightest bit culpable for the actions of others. Yes, he was warned that violence might ensue. But we�re not responsible for the evil, illegal actions others might take in response to our freely expressing our thoughts. Even if they�re ill-informed, half baked, bigoted thoughts. If we allow the possible reaction of the most dogmatic, evil people who might hear the message to govern our expression, we don�t have freedom at all. It�s worse than a heckler�s veto; it�s a murderer�s veto.

-James Joyner

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