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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Honestly it would be better in the long run to totally destroy the republican party, which is what a default would have done. I'd wager 10 years of hard economic times, even 20, would in the long run be better than letting this country continue on with Republicans as any sort of serious contender for political power.

Yeah, but then you'd fuck an entire generation (ours) that didn't spend this money.

And you will never remove the Republicans from power. God/Protestantism plays too big a role in that party, and when you have pastors that can get whatever tax-excluded money that they want, we're fucked. "God works in mysterious ways" has a great way of drawing believers in.

Why are you guys taking sides?

They're both responsible.

I miss the 60's. People opposed, instead of chose.

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Originally posted by OrangestO Why are you guys taking sides? They're both responsible. I miss the 60's. People opposed, instead of chose.

hey! that rhymes!
very nice

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Originally posted by OrangestO Why are you guys taking sides? They're both responsible. I miss the 60's. People opposed, instead of chose.

I think they're both responsible, but if I have to choose the most "wrong," it's the Tea Party that's constrained the Republican Party. Compromise is essential to governing, and these people think that's a curse word.

There needs to be movement on both sides, but what can happen when one side refuses to budge. This deficit deal should have been $4+ trillion over 10 years. Very little should have come now. The Bush tax cuts should have been put on the block for EVERYONE following the expiration of the extension.

[EDIT] Bush tax cuts should BE extended...when the economy recovers.

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I think they're both responsible, but if I have to choose the most "wrong," it's the Tea Party that's constrained the Republican Party. Compromise is essential to governing, and these people think that's a curse word. There needs to be movement on both sides, but what can happen when one side refuses to budge. This deficit deal should have been $4+ trillion over 10 years. Very little should have come now. The Bush tax cuts should have been put on the block for EVERYONE following the expiration of the extension.

The Tea Party is nothing but a bunch of loud mouth bitches at a bar trying to stir some shit up into a fight, which obviously they have and will continue to do.

Both sides are wrong, simple.

Both sides have been wrong about numerous issues concerning this country, yet fail to come to some kind of mutual agreement as to how to fix ONE of them. Plain and simple, the suits are too stubborn and too wealthy to give shit about John and Jane Doe to change their perspective and try to work toward a common solution. The power and greed within our boundaries has stepped over to lines of self-interest and self-preservation so much that the common American has been left behind to wonder about a stable future that might no longer exist.

LIke I said, it's up to the people now. We did it in the 60's, why the fuck aren't we doing it now? Iraq took thousands, and we sat and never gave a fuck about it. Afghanistan took thousand, and we still sat and don't give a fuck about it. The people of this country have become complacent upon other's actions, yet have failed to take action themselves securing their own fight, freedom and fortune in this country. Without our voice, and our strength behind it, no one will listen.

You think these puppets will? Fuck no.

Ask them if they would wage any of their sons or daughters in the war we're in. Ask them if they would take a decrease in pay in order to help a fellow American survive. Behind closed doors, under the silk ties, pressed suits and shined shoes they're all nothing but a bunch of crooks behind a desk, phone and pen ready to sign our lives away.

They will never represent us, and that's why we shouldn't argue or debate trying to justify otherwise.

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Originally posted by The17sss

you fucking deadshit.

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy And you will never remove the Republicans from power. God/Protestantism plays too big a role in that party, and when you have pastors that can get whatever tax-excluded money that they want, we're fucked. "God works in mysterious ways" has a great way of drawing believers in.

I don't see why social conservatism and fiscal conservatism have to be tied so tightly together. A lot of the fiscal conservatism goes against the basic ideals of a number of religious principals, mainly not being greedy and helping your fellow man.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I don't see why social conservatism and fiscal conservatism have to be tied so tightly together. A lot of the fiscal conservatism goes against the basic ideals of a number of religious principals, mainly not being greedy and helping your fellow man.

Gaining power and making a deal with the devil, what's so hard to understand?

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Originally posted by The17sss the only graph you need to look at:

Holy fuck Kevin, people like you are what has caused and will perpetuate the problem. Every day looking for someone to blame. Its a systemic problem, the US has been going down hill for what 30 years, but yeah blame it on the straw that broke the camel's back, shoot the messenger. If Americans like you don't grow some balls and take some responsibility you'll never come out of this. Fuck, even if you do its unlikely you'll come out, but its always easier pointing the blame than climbing over it, so just sit back and watch your country crumble.

are you a girl or a boy?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you fucking deadshit.

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I know, unwinding the stupidity of 2000-2008 is going to take awhile. Just like unwinding AIG, etc. Only government ever to go to war and cut taxes at the same time. Congrats for supporting.

It's amazing that I have to keep reminding you that shortly after cutting taxes, revenue poured into the Treasury in higher amounts than ever.

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Revenues fell in Bush's first two years because of a combination of the tech bust and the start of the tax cuts. But then things took off. After taking in $1.782 trillion in tax revenues in 2003, the government collected $1.88 trillion in 2004; $2.153 trillion in 2005; $2.406 trillion in 2006; and $2.567 trillion in 2007, according to figures compiled by the Office of Management and Budget. That's a 44 percent increase from 2003 to 2007. (Revenues slid downward a bit in 2008, and a lot in 2009, when the financial crisis sent the economy into a tailspin.) "Everybody talks about how much the Bush tax cuts 'cost,'" says one GOP strategist. "We're saying, no, they led to a huge increase in revenue." And deficits shrank. After beginning with a Clinton-era surplus in 2001, the Bush administration ran up deficits of $158 billion in 2002; $378 billion in 2003; and $413 billion in 2004. Then, with revenues pouring in, the deficits began to fall: $318 billion in 2005; $248 billion in 2006; and $161 billion in 2007. That 2007 deficit, with the tax cuts in effect, was one-tenth of today's $1.6 trillion deficit...

This goes to a larger point... I haven't heard you answer this, but I have asked a few other people this question on here and I never get a strait answer: Obama is in year 3. His party controlled the entire government for the first 2 full years. They got every piece of legislation and spending bill passed they wanted. His policies have had plenty of time to take effect. WHEN- at what point- will he be held accountable for economic conditions during his tenure as President? He has a record now. This is not George Bush's economy, this is his.

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None of this is to say that George W. Bush had a good record on spending. He didn't, and he's fair game for criticism. But is it honest to condemn reckless spending in "eight years of Republican rule" when Democrats controlled the Senate for four of those years and the House for two? Is it honest to talk about the "cost" of the Bush tax cuts when federal revenues increased significantly while they were in effect? And is it honest to refer to Bush's ballooning deficits when deficits actually trended down for much of his presidency -- at least before Democrats won control of Congress?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/polit...en-bashing-bush

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Originally posted by EgosXII Holy fuck Kevin, people like you are what has caused and will perpetuate the problem. Every day looking for someone to blame. Its a systemic problem, the US has been going down hill for what 30 years, but yeah blame it on the straw that broke the camel's back, shoot the messenger. If Americans like you don't grow some balls and take some responsibility you'll never come out of this. Fuck, even if you do its unlikely you'll come out, but its always easier pointing the blame than climbing over it, so just sit back and watch your country crumble.

Yeah you're right dude. I'm the problem- a guy who owns a business in the real world and creates employment for people. If that's sitting back and watching Rome burn, then what do you call Obama hosting a hip-hop BBQ birthday bash (his 4th this week) last night at the White House while the Dow drops 512 points?

Nope, it's definitely not the people in Washington borrowing 42 cents of every dollar we spend. It's assholes like me.

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Originally posted by The17sss It's amazing that I have to keep reminding you that shortly after cutting taxes, revenue poured into the Treasury in higher amounts than ever.

fuck you're a fucking cunt kev. for fuck sake. me and opus DESTROYED your bullshit partisan nonsense on this topic, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

yet here you are, telling the same fucking lies. AGAIN. its like you can't fucking read or something. what the fucking fuck? malek's wife is also way hotter than your blonde mail-order bimbo.

fuck.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fuck you're a fucking cunt kev. for fuck sake. me and opus DESTROYED your bullshit partisan nonsense on this topic, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. yet here you are, telling the same fucking lies. AGAIN. its like you can't fucking read or something. what the fucking fuck? malek's wife is also way hotter than your blonde mail-order bimbo. fuck.

1) You and Opus' "destructive material" is easily refuted by the other side of the coin I presented... you just refuse to acknowledge the factual evidence as being legitimate because it doesn't coincide with your ideological viewpoint.

2) I'm happy to bat this shit back and forth with you, poke each other in the ribs about stuff like you thinking Malek's wife is hotter, and so on... in fact, I've grown to really like you on here. But don't be disrespectful towards my wife in the way you just were- I don't care if you're saying it in jest or not, there's a fucking point that you've gone beyond now with multiple cracks like that over time. And no, I'm not just talking tough from behind the keyboard. Show some fucking respect.

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Originally posted by The17sss It's amazing that I have to keep reminding you that shortly after cutting taxes, revenue poured into the Treasury in higher amounts than ever.

Your causes & effects may not be correct. Just like they may not have all been Bill Clinton's for getting a surplus.

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This goes to a larger point... I haven't heard you answer this, but I have asked a few other people this question on here and I never get a strait answer: Obama is in year 3. His party controlled the entire government for the first 2 full years. They got every piece of legislation and spending bill passed they wanted. His policies have had plenty of time to take effect. WHEN- at what point- will he be held accountable for economic conditions during his tenure as President? He has a record now. This is not George Bush's economy, this is his. http://washingtonexaminer.com/polit...en-bashing-bush

Were you around for 2009-10? They got very little through because they could never break the 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. Surely you didn't forget this. You really think that watered down "Obamacare" was what he & the Dems wanted? They got Romney's plan, ffs. Look at the low number of appointee approvals...was because the 59 Dems didn't want them? You can't be that removed from reality.

So S&P are "terrorists" and obstructionists too?

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Originally posted by The17sss 1) You and Opus' "destructive material" is easily refuted by the other side of the coin I presented... you just refuse to acknowledge the factual evidence as being legitimate because it doesn't coincide with your ideological viewpoint.

haha. im not the one with an ideological viewpoint. i honestly don't give a shit. all i care about is accurate respresentation of the facts, which you have categorically ignored in favour of cherry-picked nonsense. repeatedly.

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Originally posted by The17sss 2) I'm happy to bat this shit back and forth with you, poke each other in the ribs about stuff like you thinking Malek's wife is hotter, and so on... in fact, I've grown to really like you on here. But don't be disrespectful towards my wife in the way you just were- I don't care if you're saying it in jest or not, there's a fucking point that you've gone beyond now with multiple cracks like that over time. And no, I'm not just talking tough from behind the keyboard. Show some fucking respect.

didn't mean anything by it mate. im sorry. just wanted to get you as incensed as you do me! hugz.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha. im not the one with an ideological viewpoint. i honestly don't give a shit. all i care about is accurate respresentation of the facts, which you have categorically ignored in favour of cherry-picked nonsense. repeatedly.

False

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didn't mean anything by it mate. im sorry. just wanted to get you as incensed as you do me! hugz.

*chills out*

Ok cool. I appreciate that response. I was hoping it wasn't going to be similar to what went down with Q5echo that sent him packing from TA.

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Originally posted by The17sss False

no, true!

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Originally posted by The17sss *chills out* Ok cool. I appreciate that response. I was hoping it wasn't going to be similar to what went down with Q5echo that sent him packing from TA.

what went on with Q5? are we talking about me making a joke about having sex with his half-asian daughter? i hope that's not what made him leave

also, he's back in the PDD today!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what went on with Q5? are we talking about me making a joke about having sex with his half-asian daughter? i hope that's not what made him leave also, he's back in the PDD today!

Yeah you were talking to him about getting up in his 10 year old daughter's guts... lol. He got pissed and you doubled down on it, then he left.

But he's back in the PDD??? What??? I gotta head on over there...

i have such a way with words!

i hope that's not why he left though he was such good value. you make him look like an absolute star, kev!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i have such a way with words! i hope that's not why he left though he was such good value. you make him look like an absolute star, kev!

Pssh! Please. I'll give him cred on one thing though- he can articulate a viewpoint with more brevity than I. I'm trying to work on that. Last thing I want to be is the Righty version of Opus.

Well, these are the same idiots who gave AAA ratings to the mortgage-backed securities that precipitated this whole "time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges," so it's not as if the U.S. having a AAA rating meant anything to begin with.

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Originally posted by OrangestO Really??? My father, born in Poland, came to the States. Became a citizenship through serving in the military, said fuck it and left for Canada. Nothing was ever done about it. My purpose for going back to Canada would be to leave this shithole behind. I served in the army, and yes, I think this country is great comparing to the ones that I've been in overseas. But as a leader in the free world it is not setting the standard that I want to be a a part of when other choices (Canada) seem to be a better fit. The education is not a priority, injustice is a constant and our government is self mutilating each and every citizen's pockets and households through its own agendas and motives. Yes, this country is the land of opportunity. But it's senseless to be in the position that we're in because of these puppets that have proceeded in their own processes of trying to establish their own power and individual gain.

The grass may be greener at the moment, but Canada is not immune to the problems of a faltering US economy. We also have our own problems with other issues. For sure having a better regulated banking system insulated us better than our neighbours to the south, but the recession has hit here as well, and inflation is becoming an issue as well. Our quality of life is still very good, just don't think you are moving to a country without problems.

Read up a bit on things like our health care crisis for starters. Follow what is going on in our news. I think it would be more than a good idea, because if you come here expecting a utopia you will be severely disappointed.

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