Originally posted by srussell0018
So apparently he is an asshole
He still raises some good points though.
Jesus, I wish I had time to really research this bullshit more thoroughly but it's not as though he's a fucking idiot trying to make his point of view irreconcilable with what's plainly observable. Nevermind the fact that, like many of the anti-immigration assholes in the States, he's capitalizing on ignorance. I might have huge issues with the "Muslim" side of things, the way this guy presents them but no one has yet to present an authentically Muslim side of this issue, at all.
Posted by srussell0018 on Nov-10-2011 04:43:
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
Jesus, I wish I had time to really research this bullshit more thoroughly but it's not as though he's a fucking idiot trying to make his point of view irreconcilable with what's plainly observable. Nevermind the fact that, like many of the anti-immigration assholes in the States, he's capitalizing on ignorance. I might have huge issues with the "Muslim" side of things, the way this guy presents them but no one has yet to present an authentically Muslim side of this issue, at all.
He has a pretty substantial arrest record for assaults, even against police officers. I'm not sure if you read his wikipedia page, but the organizations he has started and participated in seem more like the KKK than the ACLU.
To be fair to him, I think (at least it seems that way) that he's not necessarily arguing that muslims should not be allowed to emigrate to England, but rather that they should integrate into English society to a more "acceptable" degree, whatever an acceptable level of integration entails for him.
Also, brits are pricks. Posted by Sushipunk on Nov-10-2011 04:52:
quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
Also, brits are pricks.
Yeah, but you're Irish, so you kinda have to say that Posted by spitty on Nov-10-2011 04:52:
quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
To be fair to him, I think (at least it seems that way) that he's not necessarily arguing that muslims should not be allowed to emigrate to England, but rather that they should integrate into English society to a more "acceptable" degree, whatever an acceptable level of integration entails for him.
Didn't England just vote for more tax-funded faith-based schools? A simple way to encourage integration is to eradicate any faith-based schools. Every kid attends a public school together. Religious instruction happens on your own time. This should apply to Christians, Jews, Muslims alike. Easy socialisation, and fair
Posted by Znack on Nov-10-2011 13:41:
As far as I can read on WP, they are not fighting against the right to the Muslim faith, but against the spread of radical Islam and extremism in Britain. I don't know them any better than what I have read there and there may be more to it, but I see no hypocrisy in talking about integration while fighting these things.
Freedom includes people keeping their beliefs to themselves. 100% freedom has always been an illusion, since it is contradictory. Do you for example have the freedom to kill others?
Posted by Spam on Nov-10-2011 14:06:
quote:
Originally posted by Znack
Do you for example have the freedom to kill others?
In a purely philosophical sense... yes, you do. You could grab a knife or gun or whatever and kill some random on the street tomorrow. You could Grand Theft Auto on a busy street corner and kill a whole bunch of people.
Sure, you'd probably be punished after the fact, but you still carried out the murder(s), you were still "free" to do as you wished, that is of course, up until you were caught. But your status remains "free" up until the point of capture.
Once you're in jail, ask me the same question, and I'll have a very different answer for you Posted by pointPi on Nov-10-2011 20:39:
Re: Islamist smacks a right wing radical
quote:
Originally posted by Kylle
The sad thing about this is that these two assholes basically share the same ideals, yet hate eachother simply because they wear different hats.
And people wonder why I'm an atheist.
Posted by Halcyon+On+On on Nov-10-2011 20:44:
No, no I don't believe anyone was interested enough to wonder that.
Posted by Blake on Nov-10-2011 22:51:
Maybe it's because I grew up in NYC, but I really don't see what the big deal is.
Instead of driving through the neighborhood and making prick comments, he should get out and walk around, try some of the food, try immersing himself in another culture FFS!
I love how some people believe time and space actually belong to one group, or another. Times change, neighborhoods change. Dude needs to get over himself
Posted by LAdazeNYnights on Nov-10-2011 23:00:
quote:
Originally posted by Blake
I love how some people believe time and space actually belong to one group, or another. Times change, neighborhoods change.
Good point.
Sup Israel ?
lol
Posted by jester on Nov-10-2011 23:27:
You should post the videos of cops scared to get out go their cars when entering a muslim majority zone in Sweden
All I can say is, integrate or get the fuck out.
Posted by Nrg2Nfinit on Nov-11-2011 01:16:
quote:
Originally posted by jester
You should post the videos of cops scared to get out go their cars when entering a muslim majority zone in Sweden
All I can say is, integrate or get the fuck out.
could you say the same about all the jews north of eglington on bathurst?
Or are you a bigot?
Posted by Dreyth on Nov-11-2011 03:04:
Oh, one day, one day people will know what Islam is.
When that guy said "you see that? THAT is Islam" it really ticked me off. That is NOT Islam. In fact, Islam forbids the VERY ACT that he just did.
Posted by nchs09 on Nov-11-2011 03:24:
quote:
Originally posted by Blake
Maybe it's because I grew up in NYC, but I really don't see what the big deal is.
What does that have to do with it?
Posted by jester on Nov-11-2011 04:05:
quote:
Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
could you say the same about all the jews north of eglington on bathurst?
Or are you a bigot?
I hate everyone equally. Which some people can't wrap their head around that kind of concept. It isn't my problem that certain people of my religion or any other religion can't figure out how to integrate into western society.
My dads side of the family, did the right thing when they came to Canada before WWI. They integrated into society, which wasn't difficult, seeing we came from Europe and weren't religious. My mom side of the family been living in North America for over 200 years.
So next time you try and accuse me of something, think before. You might get your ass handed to you.
Posted by EddieZilker on Nov-11-2011 04:16:
quote:
Originally posted by jester
I hate everyone equally. Which some people can't wrap their head around that kind of contempt.
Fixed.
Posted by Nrg2Nfinit on Nov-11-2011 04:43:
quote:
Originally posted by jester
I hate everyone equally. Which some people can't wrap their head around that kind of concept. It isn't my problem that certain people of my religion or any other religion can't figure out how to integrate into western society.
It's hard to wrap our heads around that concept because we only see you complaining about muslims or arabs.
I can say that i somewhat agree with your original point (not as harshly as you portrayed it mind you) but i find it quite amusing that you totally dodged my original question to you.
Posted by Blake on Nov-11-2011 06:47:
quote:
Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights
Good point.
Sup Israel ?
lol
+1 . Things will probably change there whenever it's in the U.S.'s best interest for things to change there.
quote:
Originally posted by nchs09
What does that have to do with it?
It means I'm used to growing up around all groups of people living on top of each other all of the time. It's much harder for me to see any particular group as "outsiders". The neighborhood I live in, for example, is heavily Jewish (hebrew and yiddish speaking only), Chinese, Russian, and Mexican, while the people who run shops in the area are primarily Korean, Indian, Polish, Italian, and Arab.
They all speak how they want, wear what they want, and pray how they want, whether it's specific to their culture or not. If I go too deep into a Chinese neighborhood, I'm sometimes made to feel unwelcome. If I go too deep into a Jewish neighborhood, I'm sometimes made to feel unwelcome, but who gives a fuck! The more I interact with different groups, the more I learn about who they are, and the more I realize that some of them are douchebags, and some of them are perfectly kind/respectful/welcoming, just like every group of people.
Point is, they've got just as much right to tell me I should adopt their culture, as I do to tell them they should adopt mine [i.e. every right, and no right at all].
Posted by Znack on Nov-11-2011 12:32:
quote:
Originally posted by Spam
In a purely philosophical sense... yes, you do. You could grab a knife or gun or whatever and kill some random on the street tomorrow. You could Grand Theft Auto on a busy street corner and kill a whole bunch of people.
Sure, you'd probably be punished after the fact, but you still carried out the murder(s), you were still "free" to do as you wished, that is of course, up until you were caught. But your status remains "free" up until the point of capture.
Once you're in jail, ask me the same question, and I'll have a very different answer for you
I wasn't talking about freedom as in free will, but as in rights.
But you are right about the philosophical thing. We have in principle freedom to everything that is physically possible to us - but with responsibility.
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