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Originally posted by colonelcrisp my humble $0.02 for amurica... if you dont like big brother feeling the need to act like your overprotective mother in the name of "national security" stop pissing in everyone's pool around the globe.... Maybe, just maybe, if your gov didn't act like such ignorant cocks when it comes to international affairs and other things such as... oh i dont know.... assassinating people in foreign lands with drones..... they may be less inclined to try and blow you up?

Yes, because Americans have been so supportive of "pissing in everyone's pool" for the past decade. Especially those of us posting on TA, we've all been so supportive of overstepping our boundaries, internationally-speaking. Please, keep telling us something that most of the country already agrees with.

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp my humble $0.02 for amurica... if you dont like big brother feeling the need to act like your overprotective mother in the name of "national security" stop pissing in everyone's pool around the globe.... Maybe, just maybe, if your gov didn't act like such ignorant cocks when it comes to international affairs and other things such as... oh i dont know.... assassinating people in foreign lands with drones..... they may be less inclined to try and blow you up?

I don't think you know what "humble" means.

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp my humble $0.02 for amurica... if you dont like big brother feeling the need to act like your overprotective mother in the name of "national security" stop pissing in everyone's pool around the globe.... Maybe, just maybe, if your gov didn't act like such ignorant cocks when it comes to international affairs and other things such as... oh i dont know.... assassinating people in foreign lands with drones..... they may be less inclined to try and blow you up?

Fuck off.

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Originally posted by enydo I don't think you know what "humble" means.

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Originally posted by Lews Fuck off.

TYPICAL IGNORANT AMERICANS.

Is there something essentially wrong about what colonelcrisp said? I know it feels a bit untoward to blame Americans at large for the idiotic things our government does, but the cycle of blowback has everything to do with the liberties the Federal government sees fit to take from us and bestow upon itself. We have not been careful.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Is there something essentially wrong about what colonelcrisp said? I know it feels a bit untoward to blame Americans at large for the idiotic things our government does, but the cycle of blowback has everything to do with the liberties the Federal government sees fit to take from us and bestow upon itself. We have not been careful.

Inherently, no, and I know that myself and others on this forum have criticized our government for a lot of what colonelcrisp said. I see where he's going, and I agree with his larger point. The way he worded it made it seem as though he was attacking those of us on TA who are from the US, painting us as ignorant, retarded, and the ones to blame for this "mess".

Well I've never attended a caucus in my life and have only minimally voted in local elections, so at some point, we all have to take responsibility for each and every elected moron who continues to grind this country into a plutocratic, imperialist, pseudo-police state.

Not that that really gets us anywhere, but I think that if people felt more consciously responsible for their country (as opposed to the fucking beakers who just wave flags and salute the troops), we'd be at least slightly better off.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well I've never attended a caucus in my life and have only minimally voted in local elections, so at some point, we all have to take responsibility for each and every elected moron who continues to grind this country into a plutocratic, imperialist, pseudo-police state.

Absolutely, that's why I try not to take voting lightly.

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Not that that really gets us anywhere, but I think that if people felt more consciously responsible for their country (as opposed to the fucking beakers who just wave flags and salute the troops), we'd be at least slightly better off.

... or the people who just bitch and moan on Facebook without ever going out and protesting a single thing or then whine about how "voting doesn't matter". I'd have to agree with you wholeheartedly there.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Is there something essentially wrong about what colonelcrisp said? I know it feels a bit untoward to blame Americans at large for the idiotic things our government does, but the cycle of blowback has everything to do with the liberties the Federal government sees fit to take from us and bestow upon itself. We have not been careful.

1) What liberties have been taken from us?

2) The only people we're "assassinating" with our drones are the people who attacked us first, and their supporters. If self-defense is going to make un-involved people want to attack us, then fuck them.

3) The U.S. government makes mistakes, yes, but the world would be a whole lot shittier if we didn't occasionally play world police.

4) He blamed all American TAs for everything the U.S. government has done, which is stupid.

Also, I take my voting very seriously, in both national and local elections, and am quite happy with my Washington-elected officials.

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Originally posted by Lews 1) What liberties have been taken from us?

Reasonable expectation of privacy.

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2) The only people we're "assassinating" with our drones are the people who attacked us first, and their supporters. If self-defense is going to make un-involved people want to attack us, then fuck them.

You know it's so very much more complicated than that. Don't try to justify the collateral damage to human life as self-defense, either. I don't disagree with the drone war on whole, but its implementation is going to have long term consequences we could only possibly fathom if we paid any attention to the mistakes of the past.

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3) The U.S. government makes mistakes, yes, but the world would be a whole lot shittier if we didn't occasionally play world police.

Maybe not untrue; some situations call for mediators in our ever-globalized world. Isolation is not the answer. But drones in the Philippines? Come now, the only reason nobody calls us out for overreaching is because they are either afraid or profiting from it. Neither gives us any sort of moral high ground.

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4) He blamed all American TAs for everything the U.S. government has done, which is stupid.

Yeah, that is dumb, but I don't think he meant it in the accusatory tone in which it's being interpreted. Great power and great responsibility, etc.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well I've never attended a caucus in my life and have only minimally voted in local elections, so at some point, we all have to take responsibility for each and every elected moron who continues to grind this country into a plutocratic, imperialist, pseudo-police state.

Honestly its worse than that, they want to grind away any and all government, good and bad and leave us in an anarchistic shithole of corporate fiefdoms and religious oligarchy. That is the goal of the right, break government to the point where it no longer can exist and it collapses. Throw the people on the will of the individual states and watch that collapse next. Then everyone is camping in Walmart parking lots (they already provide RV hook ups at most, so they are on ready to go!) and we have a society of serfs who will do their feudal lords business, you know inbetween the radicalized violence from every wackjob group in the country.

The older I get the more and more I take a stance that is more authoritarian. People can not be trusted to do the right thing individually, and they sure as hell can not do it in an unorganized mob that the radical right and the extremely radical left want in this country.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Reasonable expectation of privacy.

I truly fail to see how American privacy is being taken away.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On You know it's so very much more complicated than that. Don't try to justify the collateral damage to human life as self-defense, either. I don't disagree with the drone war on whole, but its implementation is going to have long term consequences we could only possibly fathom if we paid any attention to the mistakes of the past.

I'm not going to apologize for going after AQ and their supporters. Yes, it's extremely unfortunate that civilians have died due to drone strikes, but their deaths are a small minority of what is a quite effective program - drones are much more effective and safer for everyone involved than either traditional aerial bombing or boots on the ground.

I'm sure there will be long term consequences, as that's how life works, but I'm not sure what study of the past would tell us what the consequences will be.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Maybe not untrue; some situations call for mediators in our ever-globalized world. Isolation is not the answer. But drones in the Philippines? Come now, the only reason nobody calls us out for overreaching is because they are either afraid or profiting from it. Neither gives us any sort of moral high ground.

A huge amount of people in the world profit from it. A lot of people who do protest do so because they are jealous. A small minority are afraid.

What's wrong with drones in the Philippines?

A hegemon's got to do with a hegemon's got to do. As I said: yes, we make mistakes, but we are overall a huge force for good in the world.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Yeah, that is dumb, but I don't think he meant it in the accusatory tone in which it's being interpreted. Great power and great responsibility, etc.

Well that's how it came across.

http://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsro...urveillance-act

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PRISM is not an undisclosed collection or data mining program. It is an internal government computer system used to facilitate the government's statutorily authorized collection of foreign intelligence information from electronic communication service providers under court supervision, as authorized by Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) (50 U.S.C. � 1881a). This authority was created by the Congress and has been widely known and publicly discussed since its inception in 2008. Under Section 702 of FISA, the United States Government does not unilaterally obtain information from the servers of U.S. electronic communication service providers. All such information is obtained with FISA Court approval and with the knowledge of the provider based upon a written directive from the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence. In short, Section 702 facilitates the targeted acquisition of foreign intelligence information concerning foreign targets located outside the United States under court oversight. Service providers supply information to the Government when they are lawfully required to do so. The Government cannot target anyone under the court-approved procedures for Section 702 collection unless there is an appropriate, and documented, foreign intelligence purpose for the acquisition (such as for the prevention of terrorism, hostile cyber activities, or nuclear proliferation) and the foreign target is reasonably believed to be outside the United States. We cannot target even foreign persons overseas without a valid foreign intelligence purpose.

tl;dr : OUR LIBERTIES ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY BY ORWELL

I can't believe how fucking much of a shitfit reddit is throwing over this stuff. Makes my head hurt to see how many fucking retards there are.

Even worse the libertardians are using this as an impetus to push for even more removal of government.

Literally the worst part about all this is how it has riled up the libertarians and other crazies.

Freedom. Privacy. What awful concepts.

If our freedom and privacy was being taken, you'd have a good point, but they're not, so you don't.

You don't think that your privacy is being compromised? What is the line then, pray tell, at which your privacy is abridged?

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange You don't think that your privacy is being compromised? What is the line then, pray tell, at which your privacy is abridged?

I absolutely don't think my privacy is being compromised. Tell me how it is.

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Originally posted by Lews I absolutely don't think my privacy is being compromised. Tell me how it is.

You already stated as much. I asked you at what point do you believe that your privacy would be compromised?

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange You already stated as much. I asked you at what point do you believe that your privacy would be compromised?

When I'm actually being spied on.

How is your privacy being compromised?

About voting...


Yes, I would agree that it's important. On a personal level mostly. But isn't kind of to our detriment that we elect officials with huge amounts of money from special interest groups behind them? Isn't it kind of useless that only people who know how to raise money have a shot a public office? Am I misinformed?

Nobody is actually listening in on your phone calls. The government does not care about the perverted shit you say to your girlfriend or where you get your weed from. They do not have time to listen in on your conversations. The enormous volumes of traffic they are monitoring are far too great. Your privacy is basically worthless, because nobody cares about your life in the first place.

As for the subject of voting, I consider it a complete and utter myth that it would make any difference to the introduction of such policies. This kind of thing will happen and continues to happen no matter which party or politician ends up in power, and there are far too many flaws on just about every level of the democratic system for good political policy to actually be consistently rewarded. The only merit voting has is to sustain the overall structure of democracy, whereby leaders must at least affect a pretext of caring for their people if they want to prolong their personal spasm of power. So don't worry about taking responsibility for anything, because you have no real influence anyway.

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Originally posted by Lews When I'm actually being spied on. How is your privacy being compromised?

i don't mean to belabor the point, but when do you consider that you are spied upon? you don't consider this spying, but what does the government have to do so that you feel that you are spied upon.

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange i don't mean to belabor the point, but when do you consider that you are spied upon? you don't consider this spying, but what does the government have to do so that you feel that you are spied upon.

How the fuck is this spying? Explain that to me before I waste anymore of my time replying to your insipid questions.

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