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-- Are you doing your own mixing and mastering?
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quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred You asked for feedback and I gave it to you. Your track sounds very "computer-like." I'd like to see you try and recreate an analog techno track from the 90's using only software. I'd like to hear a single digital/software emulator of a 303 that sounds like its analog counterpart. No such thing. Don't take my word for it. The guys from the Binary Bassline label, (Mr. Gasmask) himself said that if you want trax to sound like they were made in the early 90s, you gotta only use gear that was available in the early 90s. This is why many tracks being released today have that "oldschool feel," because they use analog gear. Not saying using software is wrong or necessarily bad, but most of the time, if not always, your tracks will not have that analog feel. What does deleting your song from Soundcloud have to do with this sbuject, lol? Soundcloud is for sharing music and self-promotion, nothing wrong with that.

Regarding soundcloud. I only uploaded the song for the sake of this forum. And I never put unreleased songs on soundcloud puplicly. Record labels that release my songs don't want it on soundcloud before its release. And once it is released. I am only allowed to put a preview of it on soundcloud. Maybe something to keep in mind when you sent your songs to record labels.

Btw. I agree with you guys that my songs sound computer like. (some worst then others) So I do respect your guys opinion and I agree. I will try to make it more analog sounding as possible. And if it is not enough. Then a record label can probably make it more analog sounding if they want. because they usually do have analog gear. But until now after releasing about 10 songs. on 4 different record labels. None of them ever complained about it before. Until I met Alexander Koning. So perhaps it is also a matter of taste.
But it is funny because even record label Traum did not make any remarks about it. And they are one of the most analog sounding record labels I know. So perhaps it also depends on the song. For those that are not familiar with the traum sound this is one of there songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXcPowDjfXI
I can not post my own traum song. Because this is seen as self promotion :P

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen Well I actually don't like the analog sound of the 90s. So there is no real problem for me if I can not emulate it. :P

That's fine, I was just giving an example. What I meant was the analog sound, in general.

quote:

Well then that is just to bad because I am really am not going to pay for analog stuff because I can not affort it. And it is also not necessary.

Then don't. I didn't say it was necessary, I commented on your track, gave you some feedback, illustrated an example, and suggested a nice machine in case you were curious/interested.

quote:

Since a record label will never reject your song for not sounding analog enough. Unless you have one that is interested in 90s dance music

Actually,they certainly will, but it depends on the label, and not necessarily whether your sound is like 90's dance music. There are often marked/subtle differences between analog tracks and software tracks.

quote:

btw. Alexander koning. The men who told me my songs sounded computer like. Told me that with right software tools. You can imitate the analog sound. And just so you know. He has been making tracks since the late 80s. So I will ask him if you also can imitate the 90s sound. One thing is easy about the 90s. about 90% of all the stuff was made with a TR-909. And there are a lot of good replica's of it. So the drum sound is covered

Good luck on your search, then, and best of luck to you on your musical journey and getting stuff released/beatport top 10, w/e it is you're interested in. I do think you're talented and if you ever get frustrated with software/sound design, just remember what I said about possibly incorporating some hardware into your setup, if you're ever able to.

One thought regarding the label's comments on your songs. You have to be aware that the bar to starting a label is pretty damn low, and just having a label does not automatically bestow upon a person golden ears and musical knowledge. IME most of them in the EDM world are primarily DJs with relatively little musical knowledge.

I've had label reps say some pretty stupid things to me over the years. The most classic one was many years ago when we submitted a track that had an actual recording of a cello in it and the label responded that they loved the song, but the "orchestra patch" sounded too fake/synthesized. After we had a big facepalm moment, we pulled up the worst, most fake/digital sounding, hard-quantized, and expressionless string that we could muster up from Dimension Pro, resubmitted the track, and to nobody's surprise, they loved it. We kindly told them to stuff it (not just because of that, though). I've had similar situations with other labels since that time, but none as bad as that one. Many of these guys are so used to hearing fake instruments that most of them wouldn't recognize a real Stradivarius or a real Moog if it fell on their heads.

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen .....I will try to make it more analog sounding as possible..... .

Please don't try to do that -> just go for your own sound, your own style character and see what will happen - you probably will have much more chances of creating something worth of listening then another copy of "X" sounds or worst the "Y" track/song - just an idea.

Cheers mate,

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Please don't try to do that -> just go for your own sound, your own style character and see what will happen - you probably will have much more chances of creating something worth of listening then another copy of "X" sounds or worst the "Y" track/song - just an idea. Cheers mate, Darek

It's interesting how many people will toss their integrity out the window and do whatever it takes to satisfy a label or DJs, then we all sit around and bitch about the lack of originality in the scene.

Edit: here I've created a handy step-by-step guide to the process for aspiring EDM producers:

1) create song in GENRE
2) submit song to LABEL
3) receive feedback from LABEL saying that song is ok, but needs to sound like BEATPORT ARTIST or DJ will not play it
4) go to FORUM and ask "how to sound like BEATPORT ARTIST?"
5) change song to sound like BEATPORT ARTIST and resubmit to LABEL
6) get song signed to LABEL
7) go to FORUM and complain "why all BEATPORT ARTIST sound same?"
8) go to step 1

Feel free to tweak or revise this.

quote:

Originally posted by zodiac9 You mean demos you are trying to get signed? I do my own mixing and mastering. There isn't much to it. A limiter to keep any strays from crossing the 0db threshold, and an extreme high/low EQ cut. I master a lot quieter than I used to, plenty of dynamics.

No, I do a simple master for demos. I just meant I leave final mastering up to the label.

There is this movie on youtube about mastering made by Techno Producer Tomy Declerque.

This guy really gives some great advice. The more experienced producers will just go uhu uhu true, true, when they look at it.
But for the less experienced producer. This is like a holy bible that sums up very important things about the mastering process.
Its really a must see in my opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR4...bqCv_0&index=27

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Rjen, production forum here is a little family, by far not as massive as gearslutz or other forums. We all know eachother quite well and for a long time. We more or less have our code of conduct which we all obey to. You can't know everything as a noob, but it's generally a good thing to follow up advise from veterans. Then you will fit in quite nice. Quite some big names have been active members here and some still linger around under aliases or just reading. Don't use the production section for shameless self promotion. Don't assume you're around noobs, the best in the business might be reading with you. We have a feedback work in progress topic for our family and there is a promotion subforum for dumping all Beatport releases and latest sondcloud farts. The avg level is high here, we're not easily impressed

Thanks for the friendly advice. And I was already listening because I removed the post.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred You asked for feedback and I gave it to you. Your track sounds very "computer-like." I'd like to see you try and recreate an analog techno track from the 90's using only software. I'd like to hear a single digital/software emulator of a 303 that sounds like its analog counterpart. No such thing. Don't take my word for it. The guys from the Binary Bassline label, (Mr. Gasmask) himself said that if you want trax to sound like they were made in the early 90s, you gotta only use gear that was available in the early 90s. This is why many tracks being released today have that "oldschool feel," because they use analog gear. Not saying using software is wrong or necessarily bad, but most of the time, if not always, your tracks will not have that analog feel. What does deleting your song from Soundcloud have to do with this sbuject, lol? Soundcloud is for sharing music and self-promotion, nothing wrong with that.

You know I personally think. And this purely my opinion. Is that if you think something sounds less. It will sound less. For example. many people believe that a piano made with a sampler doesn't sound like the real thing. That this never comes close to a real concert piano. So they tested this before a crowd of people. A curtain was hang and behind was the piano. First they heard the real piano. Then they heard the sampler. And after that the audience had to say which is which. And they just could not tell. There where just as many people that guesed right as there where that guesed wrong. I think that when you operate the TB-303 Put wires into it. Turning on those big knobs That there is no way that a emulator can replicate that sound. even if it did replicate that sound. Your brain will simply tell you that it isn't true. But I would not be surprised that if you hang a curtain in front of it. And you asked the audience which is which. That they can not tell the difference. I think your mind really does a lot. Now I am not saying that TB-303 emulators are good or anything. I can't tell because I never operated a TB-303 I did read a review about a plugin called Phoscyon what was rather promising. Now I use it. I think it sounds like a TB-303. But if I would have a TB-303 and I am actually touching it and feeling it. Then I assume I would think. Wow this sounds so much better. Because I think it is a psychological thing. But even so. If you think it sounds better. then it really DOES sound better. I wonder what they would say about the remake of the TB-303 because for those that are not aware of it. Roland is actually making them again. But in a different look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwszmRGvr3w
But I would not be surprised that the oldschool people would go. No the real classic still sounds better.

Rjen and Alpha, you could easily transfer your discussion in the digital vs analog thread.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik There's an entire subforum and a dedicated thread for getting feedback. You'll probably have better luck there and we can keep this thread on-topic, rather than using it for our self-promotion or another useless analog-vs-digital debate.

Please use those wise words from Dave and stay on topic - I think we already spend quite amount of time talking about you and your production my friend

Cheers,

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 Very popular label, no doubt about that, used to be a big fan of them myself. But your track wont make onto Drumcode or any of these other big labels unless its hella loud - download any of their top tracks and throw them into wavelab for a look.... Bart Skils - Hypnotizing (i like Bart Skils ) -5.61dB RMS

I don't really understand what you mean with loud. But I assume you are talking about compression. It is custom that the record label makes it that loud. I mean if you sent a song. It is drumcode that makes it so loud. That is why ALL Drumcode songs sound that loud. But its a pity they do this. Because it kills all the dynamic of a track. But Sometimes hard limiting does serve a purpose. I have one song that has a gain reduction of -8 in the limiter. And that is like really weird high. Its usually not a good thing to do this. But for some strange reason this really made everything glue nicely with the Bassdrum. Maybe that is why Drumcode does it. Because there songs are basically just one entire big bass drum. with some background noises haha But usually my advice would be. If you want something to be louder. Just turn up the volume of your stereo :P

And for the trance people that never heard of Drumcode. It sounds like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCpFPjumEs

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Please use those wise words from Dave and stay on topic - I think we already spend quite amount of time talking about you and your production my friend Cheers, Darek

That is why I removed some of my previous post. Again I apologize. And thank you for saying it so kindly. I do appreciate it.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Please don't try to do that -> just go for your own sound, your own style character and see what will happen - you probably will have much more chances of creating something worth of listening then another copy of "X" sounds or worst the "Y" track/song - just an idea. Cheers mate, Darek

Good advice...

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred That's fine, I was just giving an example. What I meant was the analog sound, in general. Then don't. I didn't say it was necessary, I commented on your track, gave you some feedback, illustrated an example, and suggested a nice machine in case you were curious/interested. Actually,they certainly will, but it depends on the label, and not necessarily whether your sound is like 90's dance music. There are often marked/subtle differences between analog tracks and software tracks. Good luck on your search, then, and best of luck to you on your musical journey and getting stuff released/beatport top 10, w/e it is you're interested in. I do think you're talented and if you ever get frustrated with software/sound design, just remember what I said about possibly incorporating some hardware into your setup, if you're ever able to.

Oeh what a full analyzis of everybeing said haha. I think we both don't need to find our words to literal. I never suggested that people said that I need to buy hardware. I was mearly try to state that I personally think that you can achieve a analog sound with just software. But I do respect that you have another opinion. Its hard for me to imagine a record label rejecting a song. because it just doesn't sound analog. But perhaps it also depends on how somebody would define analog. I can imagine a label rejecting a song because they like something to sound oldschool. But don't get me wrong. I was not offended. And I appreciated the advice. And if I could afford it. I would have been interested.

But I think I will let the forum rest for a while. I am sort of new at all this forum stuff. And I feel that I am overshadowing this initial. topic. What is. Are you doing your own mixing and mastering?

And I think the answer is most of us do. One person said he removes the stuff on his master before sending it to a label. Some people feel that using analog stuff really contributes a lot to the overall sound.

But I think that it is important to realize. That if you have a good song what is just mixed and really good EQ-et. Then in theory you don't need to master it. Every song will be compressed in the end. There will always be a limiter on the master. But usually a record label determines them selfs if they want something louder yes or no. Meaning that if you don't ad a limiter. or anything at all for that matter on the master. IT should not really matter. If you just have a very good mixed/EQ song. In the end. The master is just to improve what you have. But if you have something that is good to begin with. Then you should just leave it alone.

Mastering can really improve a song. But if you first focus on getting good in mixing and EQ-ing the song it self. Then mastering will eventually come very naturel to you. And you will be really surprised how really NOT special it is.

I think these are some wise end words to leave you all.

I wish you all peace, love and most of all Great music :P

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie you can, Red Cloud will be on Beatport next week And since I really like your tracks, you can always ask for a TA buddy quote

I'm going to try and save up a budget for my next album - if it happens. Just got to get past this "what now?" mentality now that my goals have been reached.

what happened to clooney ?

quote:

And this is because in the past I have been shocked about how much nonsense people say on forums.

so keep remembering that.


as far as mixing goes...if by mixing you mean,punching midi patterns into a coomputer screen and then ordering reordering them and turning knobs and dials up or down...i do that

as far as mastering....if you mean, continuing to turn more knobs and dials up or down until it sounds like a song on beatport top ten.......i do that also...

i mix my own songs and i used to master them but recently i've stopped mastering my songs. the more reading and practice i put into mastering, the more i realized how i was getting really far away from the joy of music-making. so a few months ago i started sending my songs off to get professionally mastered and was so happy with the results that i decided i don't want to master any of my songs anymore.

there are alot of mastering engineers out there, so you want to be sure you're getting a good one. i prefer to send to someone a little more "old school" in their techniques... meaning they're using hardware instead of software and they're not going to squash it just for the sake of making it as loud as possible. they'll make it an acceptable volume but they'll preserve the dynamics and pass the song through some nice pricey hardware. the hardware is just my preference, i'm not saying that software is inferior for mastering because a good master is dependent upon the engineer first and foremost. but i prefer the sound of a song that was passed through valves over a song that was passed through a plugin.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Dizzy i mix my own songs and i used to master them but recently i've stopped mastering my songs. the more reading and practice i put into mastering, the more i realized how i was getting really far away from the joy of music-making. so a few months ago i started sending my songs off to get professionally mastered and was so happy with the results that i decided i don't want to master any of my songs anymore. there are alot of mastering engineers out there, so you want to be sure you're getting a good one. i prefer to send to someone a little more "old school" in their techniques... meaning they're using hardware instead of software and they're not going to squash it just for the sake of making it as loud as possible. they'll make it an acceptable volume but they'll preserve the dynamics and pass the song through some nice pricey hardware. the hardware is just my preference, i'm not saying that software is inferior for mastering because a good master is dependent upon the engineer first and foremost. but i prefer the sound of a song that was passed through valves over a song that was passed through a plugin.

seems you did find the right guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Dizzy there are alot of mastering engineers out there, so you want to be sure you're getting a good one. i prefer to send to someone a little more "old school" in their techniques... meaning they're using hardware instead of software and they're not going to squash it just for the sake of making it as loud as possible. they'll make it an acceptable volume but they'll preserve the dynamics and pass the song through some nice pricey hardware. the hardware is just my preference, i'm not saying that software is inferior for mastering because a good master is dependent upon the engineer first and foremost. but i prefer the sound of a song that was passed through valves over a song that was passed through a plugin.

I agree and, just generally speaking, I also think that the old school hardware MEs probably tend to be a little more detail-oriented in their approach, spend more time, have better listening systems and environments, etc., whereas I think you're probably more likely to get more of a "fast food" approach with the ITB guys. Again, that's just my general impression, and it surely doesn't apply across the board.

i mix a little as i go but that is it because i have not got a clue

quote:

Originally posted by LoveHate what happened to clooney ?

Bad things

Rjen

I took a look at that Tomy Declerque mastering vid and noticed he 'masters' early on in a tracks life which was always my preferred method but lots of people said not to do it but this reminded me of why I felt it was a good idea to do it as you go because if you leave it all to the end the mastering process can then reveal many issues such as an over compressed kick sample.

UA - anyone happen to know if you need a dongle or any hardware to run UA plug - ins?

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler UA - anyone happen to know if you need a dongle or any hardware to run UA plug - ins?

i dont speak from experience but as far as I know, yeah u do need hardware for their plugins. not a dongle per say, but u need either their uad-2 or apollo interface to run their plugins. their software seems reasonably priced imo but their required hardware is what makes them expensive or "overpriced" in alot of ppl's opinions.

i looked into wanting to demo some of their plugins awhile back but read that I need one of their hardware interfaces to even demo a plugin. so that kinda rules out the point of demo'ing a product. the only way their demos make sense is if u already own a uad plugin and the hardware, then u can demo their other plugins no probm but if you're not already an existing uad customer then u can't really demo their stuff for free.

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