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-- 25 keys keyboard, and more importantly, a motor vehicle transmission debate
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quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Where did you read that bullshit? I'm sure you're not telling the whole story. 99% of the cars in Europe are manual (including Eurasia) and there isn't any tendency to change that. Whole Africa drives manual and the middle east as well. Most of Latin America drives manual. Not sure for Asia, but I think a part from Japan there is 50/50.

For fucks sake man, are you that dense? I even put a link in the post to one such site stating these facts. It's even called 5 myths about manual transmissions lol.

Do learn to read before falsely calling bullshit.

Secondly, re-read my post. I also said new cars made. Not cars in existence, hence why dying breed.

I named one of the biggest American Auto Makers and One of the Biggest Asian manufacturers, both of which now have more fuel efficient autos than they do manuals.

So answer to your nonsense filled rant, there is apparently a "tendency to change that".

You drive manuals because you get reamed on petrol and taxes on cars, and that extra 500 in actual cost to get the auto option means a lot more on the sticker price, and then factor in the myth that they are still more fuel efficient, and muppets like you still believe the past is true.

In second and third world countries, of course they drive manuals, because they don't buy or drive new cars and when they do, they are going for the cheapest option possible, which is manual. I went to Egypt about 6 years ago. Apart from when I visited a fancy hotel one afternoon or seeing government vehicles, there wasn't a single car newer than 1970. I'm not exaggerating. All old Peugeots and Renaults being kept alive with like 1m miles on the locks and counting.

Is it really little surprise people in poor countries don't drive teslas. Not rocket science.

Please quote me the exact paragraph where it states that data is referring to the whole world and not specifically to the usa.

Come on you lying bitch!

Keep coming super muppet.

click me because TranceFlatulation is too dense to search

Manual is on the deathbed globally, not just in the USA.

Farari have completely abandoned manual ("it just doesn't work well") as are Porsche and Jaguar, so soon even sportscars won't have them as an option. Electric cars are the final nail in that coffin.

I love driving manual on vintage cars - wouldn't have it any other way - but all the reasons (which are the main points you keep avoiding) just don't apply as of a few years ago.

get with it. I'm thinking you drive one of these, right?

quote:

According to Edmunds.com, the online automotive research company in Santa Monica, Calif., manual or stick shift transmissions comprised roughly seven percent of new car sales in the first quarter of 2012. 1 By August 2013, the new cars sold in the U.S. with manual transmissions had dropped to 3.9 percent. Twenty-seven years ago, 29 percent of new cars sold in the United States were equipped with manual transmissions.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Please quote me the exact paragraph where it states that data is referring to the whole world and not specifically to the usa.

automatics are affront to driving. even though new MT cars are still the vast majority in the UK and EU, it seems the MT box is an outgoing technology - to make way for "trends". i.e. double clutch transmission, as there are things you can do with it that a manual box just cannot achieve... it is coming from high end car manufacturers, as they don't want to be left behind in the arms race, but you can be sure that will trickle down to shitty runaround cars, which will give them the latest USP that your average drive doesn't need to help flog their motors.

i will be driving a MT until it becomes unviable, as i like to control my car. be it long or short shifts, or shifting in blocks. autos put another obstacle between the driver and the car, and that is unacceptable for any enthusiast... you need to remember that most people buying high end cars - ferraris etc - are not enthusiasts... just rich douchebags eager to show off their latest car brimmed with the latest technology. there's a reason why you see many mangled supercars in the papers - it's not because they have too much power to handle, it's because these douchebags can't drive!

Switched to auto for my current car, would never go back to manual!!! (17 years driving a manual)

it's a soccer mom type wagon though, right?

quote:

Originally posted by rubez it's a soccer mom type wagon though, right?

not even close

what then? is it a performance car?

a significant part of the joy of driving is managing the gears. i know autos have a kick down but what if the bastard shifts back up when you don't want it to?

you gotta be in the right gear, at the right revs to spool your turbo as much as you need so that when you plant your foot you vanish in a cloud of smoke... especially if you have a very specific power band.

plus there are numerous benefits to being able to dip the clutch at will. i can safely say i will not drive an automatic as long as i am able bodied and MT motor cars are on this earth.

can you imagine automatic transmissions in motorsport?!

quote:

Originally posted by rubez automatics are affront to driving. even though new MT cars are still the vast majority in the UK and EU, it seems the MT box is an outgoing technology - to make way for "trends". i.e. double clutch transmission, as there are things you can do with it that a manual box just cannot achieve... it is coming from high end car manufacturers, as they don't want to be left behind in the arms race, but you can be sure that will trickle down to shitty runaround cars, which will give them the latest USP that your average drive doesn't need to help flog their motors. i will be driving a MT until it becomes unviable, as i like to control my car. be it long or short shifts, or shifting in blocks. autos put another obstacle between the driver and the car, and that is unacceptable for any enthusiast... you need to remember that most people buying high end cars - ferraris etc - are not enthusiasts... just rich douchebags eager to show off their latest car brimmed with the latest technology. there's a reason why you see many mangled supercars in the papers - it's not because they have too much power to handle, it's because these douchebags can't drive!

Wow, the ignorance is stunning Rubez.

This new fangled double clutch trend was actually developed in the early 70's and used extensively on trucks/lorries for years now.

The reason things like this are now becoming popular is that as engine technology becomes more and more efficient, the need for manual transmission is being heavily negated; auto transmissions are no longer these inefficient, petrol killing wasteboxes - they're now the efficient option, with as I said before, up to 9 speeds, double clutches even constant variable transmissions are the most fuel efficient thing out there.

It's "trickling down to run around cars" because to the average person, fuel efficiency is a big deal, and now manuals are not as fuel efficient as other transmissions.

It's not a trend for some arms race low - it's supply and demand. People want more fuel efficient cars so manuals are dying. get used to it.

You're talking rubbish about it "putting another obstacle" in the way of driving - it's one less thing to do, and let's remember that all decent auto's allow you do select the gear you're in. This is standard on Audi, Merc, BMW, VW, Porsche, Lexus, Subaru etc etc etc.

I'm beginning to realize you haven't driven a recent mid or luxury or sportscar, and you're just hanging on to outdated assumptions.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez can you imagine automatic transmissions in motorsport?!

Oh snap. My last sentence confirmed. When exactly was the last time you saw a gearstick or clutch pedal in an F1 or Le Mans car?

FTR, I've owned many manuals, but now I drive and prefer my automatic Lexus. Probably not the most manly vehicle on the road, but who the fuck cares? It's a fucking car/money pit that gets me from point A to point B, not my identity. Anybody who judges a person by the type of car they drive is a complete moron.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Oh snap. My last sentence confirmed. When exactly was the last time you saw a gearstick or clutch pedal in an F1 or Le Mans car?

I know fuck all about cars or motorsports but I am quite sure they press buttons to switch gears. Wouldn't that technically qualify as being manual? Human interaction is required after all. Just asking

I like the topic title too.

Is this a fuckin episode of trailer park boys?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Wow, the ignorance is stunning Rubez. This new fangled double clutch trend was actually developed in the early 70's and used extensively on trucks/lorries for years now. The reason things like this are now becoming popular is that as engine technology becomes more and more efficient, the need for manual transmission is being heavily negated; auto transmissions are no longer these inefficient, petrol killing wasteboxes - they're now the efficient option, with as I said before, up to 9 speeds, double clutches even constant variable transmissions are the most fuel efficient thing out there. It's "trickling down to run around cars" because to the average person, fuel efficiency is a big deal, and now manuals are not as fuel efficient as other transmissions. It's not a trend for some arms race low - it's supply and demand. People want more fuel efficient cars so manuals are dying. get used to it. You're talking rubbish about it "putting another obstacle" in the way of driving - it's one less thing to do, and let's remember that all decent auto's allow you do select the gear you're in. This is standard on Audi, Merc, BMW, VW, Porsche, Lexus, Subaru etc etc etc. I'm beginning to realize you haven't driven a recent mid or luxury or sportscar, and you're just hanging on to outdated assumptions. Oh snap. My last sentence confirmed. When exactly was the last time you saw a gearstick or clutch pedal in an F1 or Le Mans car?

if fuel efficiency was paramount, you wouldn't see all these big-engined gas guzzlers around, the big mercs, bmws, audi etc. and i think you'll find autos are more efficient on average due to the average person not using a manual box in the most efficient way and over revving it. hell a new feature i've seen is your dashboard lights up when you are supposed to change gear - pathetic!

for most people a car is an A to B thing. so you may as well remove that obstacle... i think the new google car that drives itself may tickle your fancy. but for us drivers, a manual box is the only way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez if fuel efficiency was paramount, you wouldn't see all these big-engined gas guzzlers around, the big mercs, bmws, audi etc. and i think you'll find autos are more efficient on average due to the average person not using a manual box in the most efficient way and over revving it. hell a new feature i've seen is your dashboard lights up when you are supposed to change gear - pathetic! for most people a car is an A to B thing. so you may as well remove that obstacle... i think the new google car that drives itself may tickle your fancy. but for us drivers, a manual box is the only way to go.

Again, what the fuck are you on about? Between the various global, regional and national enviromental agencies, there has never been more pressure on car manufacturers to increase fuel economy, and the bigger the engine, the more pressure.

People buy big engined cars because they like the power and performance, but fuel economy isn't mutually exclusive form that; just look at what's happening with all the new supercars; they're all hybrids now. All the luxury cars are getting more powerful but efficiency doesn't just affect fuel

and no, autos aren't more efficient today because somehow everyone that owns one suddenly can't manage their own gearbox or engine revs. You're just grasping now.

As already mentioned, Autos are more efficient because they have more gears (in some cases they have 9 speed gearboxes, which is twice the resolution of a manual, and therefore much more efficient due to gear selecting based on demand, than you can ever be even if you were the stig), have become more efficient due to double clutch technology (again more efficient than you can manage with a single clutch) and finally autos have got better (through thousands of tiny incremental performance tweaks) at transferring power to the wheels.

I will hate the day that cars drive themselves, and I'll refuse to drive a vintage car that is an auto, but we lost the war on computer controlled, fly by wire cars in the 90's - when you press the accelerator in a modern car, it's not pulling a cable that opens a carburetor; it's a sensor which signal a computer to allow the digitally controlled injectors to release more fuel.

I'm saying you're living on myths that just don't hold any weight today. I spent more of my summer holiday last year driving an 1964 Austin Healey in the alps. That's a 3000cc truck engine with dual carbs and overdrive manual transmission in a tiny body. I love to drive manual when it matters, but I'm not dumb enough to think that manuals rule modern car technology because once upon a time they were more fuel efficient. Drive it because you like it. Ever other reason is fantasy.

This may well be the best thread ever.

quote:

Originally posted by deegee This may well be the best thread ever.

I couldn't let this kind of vitriol go astray, hence the thread title change.

Let's not let this become a normal thing though, mmkay?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I will hate the day that cars drive themselves

You know, I actually have no problem with that. I don't particularily enjoy driving and if I don't have to do that, all the better.

Plus I can get wasted without having to think who's going to drive the car home.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Plus I can get wasted without having to think who's going to drive the car home.

+1

Also, that's always a good time for a trip to McDonald's.

The carbonated corn syrup of my favorite soda slopping into my liquor-scented esophagus is like succulent nectar from Heaven.

quote:

Originally posted by McDonaldsBoy The carbonated corn syrup of my favorite soda slopping into my liquor-scented esophagus is like succulent nectar from Heaven.

Poetry.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN just look at what's happening with all the new supercars; they're all hybrids now.

stopped reading after this.

offtopic, i am noticing that you can randomly press the black keys and get something pretty good, any reason for this?

i figured out the innercity - good life / devilfish - man alive melody from this.

They form a pentatonjc scale. The scale lacks the 4 Ruth and 7th making it really hard to play what we consider dissonances over a passage in the same key. It also probsbly triggers that a similar warm feeling your dad got in his crotch when he would play my girl on the cassette machine and make you bob up and down on his lap. Temptation(s)

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery You know, I actually have no problem with that. I don't particularily enjoy driving and if I don't have to do that, all the better. Plus I can get wasted without having to think who's going to drive the car home.

Uber and postmates dude. Changed everything. Never drive anywhere you don't need to, and never worry about designated driver again.

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