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Forget it, I HATE BPM counters... you should learn to beatmatch by ear, not by some stupid bpm counter

do it by ear!

yes!

if u want to use bpm counters then use them, if u want to use ur ear use ur ear then, if u wanna use both then do so, if u dont want to use the ear or the bpm counter then dont, if u have ur own way of doing it then do it, case closed! i hope that helps a bit. i use bpm counters , who cares if people think its stupid, just do it ur way, thats all that matters. its like cds vs vinyl for eg.

quote:

its like cds vs vinyl

No its not. I mean, what if someday, you get the chance to play in a club or something where they have a mixer that doesn't have a BPM counter... What are you gonna do then? You'll suck.

Besides, BPM counters make it VERY easy to DJ. Fire the DJ! Computers can do his work and match the songs. Wouldn't that be stupid?

And, BPM counters take away all the fun of DJ'ing.
(just my opinion)

i know pioneer dj-j 600 is good mixer i realy love its effect block

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger777 No its not. I mean, what if someday, you get the chance to play in a club or something where they have a mixer that doesn't have a BPM counter... What are you gonna do then? You'll suck. Besides, BPM counters make it VERY easy to DJ. Fire the DJ! Computers can do his work and match the songs. Wouldn't that be stupid? And, BPM counters take away all the fun of DJ'ing. (just my opinion)

shit so true, i forgot about that. nvm wat i said.

Lovely!

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger777 No its not. I mean, what if someday, you get the chance to play in a club or something where they have a mixer that doesn't have a BPM counter... What are you gonna do then? You'll suck. Besides, BPM counters make it VERY easy to DJ. Fire the DJ! Computers can do his work and match the songs. Wouldn't that be stupid? And, BPM counters take away all the fun of DJ'ing. (just my opinion)

I disagree whole heartedly! BPM counters can NEVER teach you how to beatmatch. There are three cases at best. 1) The BPM counters beatmatch FOR you, and you never learn--but here you need something like a beat synchronizer like on the Pioneer CMX-3000 dual cd player. 2) You use the BPM counters to TRY to beatmatch and since you don't have a beat-synch tool, you fail miserably! 3) You use the BPM counters as tools to HELP you beatmatch and eventually your ears will train themselves to learn how to fine tune the beatmatching that the BPM counters helped you get CLOSE to synching.

I will repost one of my old threads here on BPM counters:

Personally, I don't know why everyone has a huge gripe about BPM counters. It doesn't make you any more or less of a Dj if you do or don't use one. The main point is that BPM counters are ment to do just that, count the beats per minute so that you can have a freakin clue to which track is faster or slower and by about how much.

BPM counters will help you beatmatch, they will NOT beatmatch for you, and by the semi-angry and frustrated tones of those above who hate and swear at them, they were the ones that were expecting the BPM counter to actually beatmatch their song for them!

A BPM counter is a tool, and as a Dj, if you don't know how to use the tools around you, or don't use the tools around you, you will be at a disadvantage to those that do have this knowledge. As I have already stated, a BPM counter is ment to give you an approximate idea of how fast your track is so that you can take 3 seconds of time to get the beats close to the same speed. You can do the same thing without a beat counter, but it takes many seconds longer to do the same thing. That is the purpose of this tool--reduction of time, because time is not on a Dj's side during a mix.

Think of it this way, I can ignore the beat counter and listen to the track and say, hey, that is way to slow (let's say the cue is at 120 and I'm spinning at 140). Then I will adjust the pitch accordingly until it becomes a bit faster etc. Then I've got to go back to my cue point, press play and start that over again until the two tracks are beatmatched. If the initial difference between the two tracks is 20 BPM, then it will take me longer than if the initial difference is between 1-2 BPM (about the accuracy range of a BPM). So instead of spending maybe 30-60 seconds trying to slide the pitch fader 20BPM, I'll look at the BPM counter and slide it up to that 1-2 BPM range and start there.

Beatmatching is being able to repeat the cycle of pressing play on the first beat, adjusting the jog wheel to synch the beat for one or two beats, adjusting the pitch accordingly to make the beats more in synch, then repeating the cycle until your tracks are beatmatched. It stands to reason that the fewer number of times that you have to do this, the quicker you can beatmatch two tracks. This is exactly what the BPM counter's function is--to let you reduce the number of the above cycles it takes for you to beatmatch two tracks. Again, let me state that it will not help you in any degree to actually have the ability to seamlessly beatmatch, it just gives you more time to try!

You will have to train your ears on what to listen for. Most of the time Djs will keep trying to listen to the bass beats to try to distinguish if the track is too fast or too slow. But as your brain quickly becomes frustrated that it is very difficult to do this, it will unconsciously search for another way to find this distinction. To cut to the chase, I will tell you what to listen for so that it will be a little easier for you to learn how to train your ear.

As I said, the bass beats are very hard to tell apart because most techno beats use very similar if not the same type of drum. So instead of listening to bass, try listening to the hi hat, or the other higher pitched instruments that are much easier to distinguish from track to track. And in doing this, try to use two tracks that have very different highs. Silverblue is a great artist with very distinct high pitch instruments. Try mixing in a Silverblue track with something else that is pretty simple compared to that. Most importantly, once you learn how to beatmatch two track, be aware that this will be only the first in many lessons to come. You will still have to learn about phrase matching and in-phrase transitioning, effects, timing, volumes, gain structure and many many other things. Djing is complicated and beatmatching is probably one of the first and most necessary lessons. Learn this well before you go onto other things, but don't ever forget that there ARE in fact lots of other things that you will need to learn after this!

In my opinion : If you want to use the BPM counter , use it before mixing . Measure the BPM's of the tracks , write it down on the cover or next to the title of the track and it will help you at the beginning to set the pitch , because you'll know approximately how much the difference is between the songs . After a while you wont even look at that . Don't use the BPM counter during / while mixing , it will slow down or even stop the process of learning to beatmatch . Peace , A.P.X.

=)

Great forum.. thank you very much for the links... i appreciate it very much... helps a lot!

http://www.nem0nic.com/DJs.htm
Lots of good information..

es

quote:

Besides, BPM counters make it VERY easy to DJ. Fire the DJ! Computers can do his work and match the songs. Wouldn't that be stupid?

Being a DJ means more than beatmatching. That's the bedroom DJ's point of view. It's about reading the crowd and interacting with them. It's not about how much fun you're having, but how much fun they're having. At the end of the day, all that matters is whether or not your audience enjoyed themselves. Not how many trainwrecks, or whether he spun from cd, vinyl or computer.

If you're trying to learn to DJ, NEVER rely on beat counters. Rely only on your ears and the grooves of the record because when you eventually spin out, that's all you'll have.

ALSO, once you've got beat matching down, try correcting without touching the platter. Only use the pitch control. This makes your tempo correction less noticeable. I'm sure we've all heard a mix where the DJ corrects by scraping the platter or pulling the vinyl... it's a nice melody and then suddenly it goes horribly of key for just a split second.

As well, once you get accustomed to using just the pitch control, you can correct two decks simultaneously.

For timing, you can pretty much be confident that the beat drops every 8 and 16 bars.

Always watch your levels. Some vinyl pressings aren't at equal volumes. Use the gain control to even them out. Some mixers have individual VU meters for each channel and you can measure it that way... or, just listen in the headphones.

I'm far from knowing all things DJ, but if you have any questions, PM me

gemini626i

Anybody with expereince wit the Gemini 626i mixer as a starter mixer?
Heard the Xfader goes quick.

gemini626i

Anybody with expereince wit the Gemini 626i mixer as a starter mixer?
Heard the Xfader goes quick.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Flesch The main point is that BPM counters are ment to do just that, count the beats per minute so that you can have a freakin clue to which track is faster or slower and by about how much.

I couldnt have put it any better. I actually never even heard people getting pissed off at such a stupid thing. I agree, someone needs to learn how to beatmatch using their ear and not their eyes.

I started Dj-ing with a crappy ass mixer that of course did not have bpm counters. So I learned the hard way, using my ears (and I bet I'm the only dj youll ever meet thats legally deaf). But after a year of using that shitty ass mixer I bought one that did have a bpm counter but truth is, the only time I ever even look at it is when I first put on a record... just to see if its slower or faster to give me a little starting point.

You give me any turntable, mixer and 2 records and I'll beatmatch em for you, I dont need a bpm counter. It just eliminates a little time by telling you whether to speed up or slow down, do the rest with your ears.

Any recommendations for Danish DJ stores? I'm gonna need turntables, a mixer and required cables - I have amp/sound system + places to get them vinyls

new kicks

anyone know a good site besides Gemm.com, that sells almost every new and used vinals?

beyond noob

i wanna get a who set up and start venturing into the world of djing but what's with all this terminlogy on the TTs?
i went to panasonic's technic site and they have all this stuff like:

Type: manual
Drive System: Quartz Direct Drive
Wow and Flutter: 0.025% WRMS, �0.035% peak
Rumble: -76dB DIN B
Tonearm Type: Universal S-shaped low-mass with gimbal suspension
Disc Slip Mat: Yes
Aluminum Diecast Cabinet: Yes
Helicoid Tonearm Height Adjustment: Yes

It seems important, but what does this all mean???

I'm looking to get a set of technics, preferably the sl-1200m3d's
does anybody have any advice on what kind of mixer to get?
and how much would all this cost? (In Canadian funds?)
i do have some money saved over from work but i'm still not no millionaire

american dj isn't the only company that makes mixers with bpm counters... actually there are many of them... including some big hitters such as pioneer and vestax. there's also behringer and numark which also make mixers with bpm counters... also there are turntables that count the BPMs for you... vextax has one, numark has one also called the TTX1, and i have to say the numark one looks sleek as hell, but don't know about their reliability...

Which of these packages are the best?

Two Technics SL-1210MK2 turntables, one Numark PPD01 mixer

Two Technics SL-1210MK2 turntables, one Vestax PCV-275 mixer

Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Numark PPD01 mixer

Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Vestax PCV-275 mixer

Two Technics SL-1210MK2 turntables, one Rane TTM 54i mixer

Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Rane TTM 52i mixer

Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Rane TTM 54i mixer


Or... if you don't like any of the packages, list some nice set-up's that aren't TOO expensive.

I am wondering about the sequence of play of the tracks.

I played & recorded a set of tracks, in bpm order. I went from low to high bpm to build the energy and excitement, and to aid in beatmatching, and that works, although the energy of a track does not completely depend on bpm. The tracks were funky house, trance with vocals, and some remixes of popular club stuff. I'd do more trance but this sounds good and would be more accepted by the clubbers in my area.

So I ended up with a set where I'd get a more energetic track and then a less energetic one, and so on, with the bpm increasing with each track.

That sounds really good when I am just sitting around listening to the set, because you get a nice new sound with every track.

But when I play in a club (not a rave) should I be clumping the high energy tracks together, and then the low energy ones, to keep the dancers on the floor for several tracks at a time? For example 3 low energy tracks, then 3 higher energy, and so on? I could still do this so the bpm is increasing, in general.

you don't want to clump all of the high energy songs together, start with something mellow/chill, work up to a banger or two, go back to something a little bit lower in energy, you know give the people a chance to relax a little bit, but they're still in the groove, and then go back to another banger...and always always always, end with a banger, or a choon that you know the people absolutely love!!! i was nocturnal wonderland in august, and i remember BT playing "as the rush comes" and, like, the crowd (including me) went abso-fuckin'-lutely nuts... and then he played a couple of his remixes and his older songs, and he ended with godspeed, and that was sweet...

are you absolutely set on getting a set of technics? if not, then here's what i would get if i had all the money:

Two Numark TT-X1 turntables, one Behringer DJM700 / Vestax PCV-275 mixer.

or if you wanna spend even less money

Two Numark TT-500 turntables, one behringer DJM700 / Vestax PCv - 275 mixer.

a lot of people downplay the numarks. the truth is their lower line absolutely sucks, but their higher end models, like the TT-X1, the TT-500 and the TT-200 are all very good turntables. Technics are better because they have proven themselves to be very good. the numarks are relatively new, and their only drawback is just that, it's recent addition to a field dominated by one TT.

quote:

Originally posted by DJYaNiK Which of these packages are the best? Two Technics SL-1210MK2 turntables, one Numark PPD01 mixer Two Technics SL-1210MK2 turntables, one Vestax PCV-275 mixer Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Numark PPD01 mixer Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Vestax PCV-275 mixer Two Technics SL-1210MK2 turntables, one Rane TTM 54i mixer Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Rane TTM 52i mixer Two Technics SL-1200MK 3D turntables, one Rane TTM 54i mixer Or... if you don't like any of the packages, list some nice set-up's that aren't TOO expensive.

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