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-- this should put some perspectives on track!
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yea... i highly doubt the figure is correct - 7000?

Shlomo Hamalech take at look at these #'s if u get a second. http://www.embajada-israel.es/israel/basic-01.html
Not the exact time u stated but its close.

quote:

this 'jewish academic' tried to disprove the holocaust? and now joan peters book? well if u look at her book, it has REAPS of sources, and there are many universites around the world that have historians that can answer your questions.

well a quick search of Google gives you

http://www.ukar.org/fahel01.shtml

http://rittenhouse.blogspot.com/200...se_archive.html

http://desip.igc.org/CburnOnFinkelstein.html

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Beauty/lies.htm

Sadly a search of EBSCOhost(academic database) doesnt bring up anything useful, presumably because the scandal occured before the advent of the internet.

quote:

hahhhahaah rupert is full of crap!!! this is so not historically true its unbelievable!! Some of the roman or crusades stuff may be true, but lets do a blood test of arabs living in israel, and jews. Find it identical!!!

When I wrote about blood testing arabs and jews I was just making an assumption based on common sense. However low and behold researchers have done exactly that, done DNA tests on jews and arabs, and no they werent identical but very very close:

http://www.resist.com/war_on_race/part1.htm

quote:

but lets do a blood test of arabs living in israel, and jews. Find it identical!!!

Too bad for you that DNA is independent of religion.

Gielen was the shit and it's nice to be back on a dsl line! Anyway back to my reply to Rupert's post:

quote:

Once they realised what happened at Deir Yassin and other massacres the arabs fled before they too were massacred. When the majority of arabs fled,(although some stayed because they were too isolated to be of any interest to the settlers or because they willingly collaborated with the Jews.) for the most part their homes were destroyed so they would have nothing to come back to. Soon after independance Israel passed a law which said that if the arabs didnt return they lost title to there property in Israel. Obviously few chose to accept Israels generosity.

Yes the Deir Yassin massacre did convince some Arabs to leave but it was more or less an isolated incident rather than widespread policy by Israel to force Arabs to leave. Melech is correct in that many Arabs left voluntarily. They were in fact encouraged to leave not by Israel, but by jordan, syria, egypt, etc. so that the area can be cleared for the arab invasion afterwhich they could come back to reclaim their homes. Also it seems like you're faulting Israel for passing a law saying that if arabs fail to return they lose their property rights. It's commendable that they passed a law in the first place respecting Arab property rights if they so chose to reclaim it. What happens if you have land now and you more or less abandon it? You fail to pay property taxes then what eventually happens is that the government seizes and reclaims the land ... you can't come back 50 years later to assert your property rights.

quote:

When the Romans destroyed the temple and exiled the Jews the land didnt get depopulated. Plenty of Jews, Romans, Greeks whatever stayed in the land. These people converted to Christianity and then for the most part converted to Islam when the Caliph captured it from the Byzantines. Sor from then on it is has been Muslim land save for a short period in the Middle Ages. The Palestinians have always lived there because they are you. The Palestinians are the Jews that decided not to leave in the exile.

Yes you can say that that the area wasn't completely depopulated by the Romans, but in the same regard you can turn the Palestinian argument around and apply it to this scenario. The romans continually persecuted Jews in this region which eventually drove the Jews to migrate to other areas such as Europe. So in that sense you can claim that they were forced out. Personally I think that the whole "I was here first/No you weren't" argument is a silly reason to validate the Jewish/Palestinians right to authority over that land. If we went by that argument then Egypt owns all of north africa, turkey owns the middle east, Italy owns all of Europe, etc.

quote:

Every single attempt by Europeans to colonise another country and disposses its occupants in the last one hundred years has in the long run failed.

I gave America as an example where Europeans successfully colonized another country and dispossessed its inhabitants, but if you want to look back to the past 100 years as you stated, there are very few cases where a country's objective is to colonize and dispossess occupants. Imperialism was more about setting up colonies and friendly governments that would send natural resources back to the home country and purchase the finished products that were produced. Their objective was trade rather than land. However I can think of 2 examples in the past century where colonization and dispossession was involved. One is the Dutch and English Boer farmers who went to south africa at the turn of the century. It seems that they were relatively successful in colonizing and dispossessing inhabitants of south africa. And the other is Hitler ... and he came pretty damn close to achieving his objective of lebensraum.

ok..

I am willing to forget about joan peters as a source since there is some vocal support against her work. so forget about her as a source.

instead, look here:
myths and facts: A guide to israel & arab conflict
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...08129?vi=glance

it has over 100 pages of historical docs and maps so it is super informative.

also check out
www.fortruthssake.com its not so big now, but its getting a fresh update soon I'v been told.

once again about deir yassin:
"The Arab Higher Committee hoped exaggerated reports about a "massacre" at Deir Yassin would shock the population of the Arab countries into bringing pressure on their governments to intervene in Palestine. Instead, the immediate impact was to stimulate a new Palestinian exodus.
- from Deir Yassin, by Mitchell Bard of JSOURCE


I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story. He said, "We must make the most of this". So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped. All sorts of atrocities.
- Hazen Nusseibeh, an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service's Arabic news in 1948, was interviewed for the BBC television series "Israel and the Arabs: the 50-year conflict." He describes an encounter with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi, the secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem's Old City.


...for a clearer picture on the Dir Yassin scene I suggest that you read the new detailed research by Uri Milstein which proves quite convincingly that the "Massacre" in DY was a fiction of the Hagana in order to smear the Irgun & Lehi. The Number of 254 of killed is a complete fiction which was very convenient to everyone (Hagana, Irgun,Arabs [to perpetrate anger and unite the Arabs] and British] The real number is 110.
Most of the horror stories from a scene was fabricated by an Hagana officer Meir Pail(pilavsky) which was not in the scene, but tried to manufacture a horrid version of the story. [He was one of the most vigoros anti-Irgun officers and did nothing to hide it].

All this information and a lot more [about Palmach's part in the conquest of the village and the lack of any evidence for sexual abuse in the bodies by the Hagana and Red Cross although Pail claimed that he saw sexual abuse] can be read in Milstein's history book:

"History of the Independence War Volume 4: From Crisis came Decision" by Uri Milstein.

A very interesting newpaper article is "There was no Massacre there" by Yerach Tal Ha'Aretz 8.9.91 Page B3 which reviews the Milstein research with reactions which are quite unconvincing from Pail and others.

Another article which views the Arab side "Massacre was done there" by Dani Rubinstein Ha'Aretz 11.9.91 Page B2 states that in a new Bir-Zeit research of the affair the number of killed was estimated at 107. The claims were much exagerrated by Arab media and hearsay while the Jews did nothing to reveal the truth from propaganda and internal considerations reasons.

All these sources had vested interest in exasgerating the truth. Irgun: To frighten the Arabs. Hagana: To frighten the Arabs, to throw mud on the Irgun. British: To throw mud on the Jews (and praticularly Irgun). Arabs: to unify and envigorate Arab anger against the Jews and indeed this resulted in the Hadassa masscare of 78 Jewish doctors and nurses. This also created a by-product effect not desired by Arabs of enormous fear from the Jews."

so there is 1 source from http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/deiryassin.html

about the refugees...

tons of info here!
also from www.yahoodi.com

The British had wrestled Palestine away from the Ottoman Turks in 1917, and they occupied Palestine until 1947, and shortly thereafter, the United Nations voted to divide western Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab areas. The Jews accepted this plan, and the Arabs rejected it. Not only did they reject the UN partition plan, but 7 Arab nations decided to attack the fledgeling Jewish microstate with public proclamations of Jewish extermination. It was surrounding these events that the Palestinian Arab refugee problem was born:

"According to official records of the League of Nations and Arab census figure 539,000 Arabs left Israel at the urging of 7 converging Arab armies so that they would not be in the way of their attack. They promised the fleeing Arabs they would return and move into the Jews' houses after the anticipated successful annihilation of the Jews.
"We know that 850,000 Jews were ejected from the Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years. This included successful people whose property and assets, including community assets were immediately confiscated. 750,000 penniless Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel.

"This was a virtual exchange of population. The Jewish refugees were immediately accepted by the new State of Israel. They were provided with shelter (albeit temporary tents) food and clothing.

"The Arab refugees who had migrated to various Arab nations were not similarly well received. They were regarded not as Arab brothers but as unwelcome migrants who were not to be trusted. Squalid refugee camps were set up as showpieces to induce the West's sympathy and kept that way. The UN through UNRWA (UN Relief Agency) provided assistance to the camps when the host country could not or would not. These camps became a training ground for terrorist youth to be targeted at Israel. The host country, like Syria, would provide training, weapons and explosives, but refused to absorb the Arab refugees as equal citizens. Keeping them in misery made them valuable and irreplaceable as angry front line terrorists attacking Israel as proxies for the Arab armies who lost to the Jews on the field of battle in declared wars. The Twin Pillars supporting Arab Muslim society are "Pride and Shame". Losing to the Jews on the battlefield time and again in 6 wars shattered the self perception of the Macho Man.

- Emanuel A. Winston, Middle East analyst & commentator


THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE:

"Even amidst the violent attacks launched against us for months past, we call upon the sons of the Arab people dwelling in Israel to keep the peace and to play their part in building the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its institutions, provisional and permanent.
"We extend the hand of peace and good-neighborliness to all the States around us and to their people, and we call upon them to cooperate in mutual helpfulness with the independent Jewish nation in its Land. The State of Israel is prepared to make its contribution in a concerted effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East."

- David Ben-Gurion, in Israel's Proclamation of Independence, read on May 14, 1948, moments before the 6 surrounding Arab armies, trained and armed by the British, invaded the day-old Jewish microstate, with the stated goal of extermination.


"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is regrettable".
- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, in March 1976


"The first group of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere. . . . At the first sign of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."
- Ash Shalab (Jaffa newspaper), January 30, 1948


"The Arab streets are curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."
- London Times, May 5, 1948


"The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the 'Zionist gangs' very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, in the Beirut newspaper Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948


"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."
- The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948


"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."
- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949


"This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country."
- Edward Atiyah (then Secretary of the Arab League Office in London) in The Arabs (London, 1955), p. 183


"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city...By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.".
- Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25


The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea.
- Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31


I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem, [Daily Telegraph, September 6, 19481
- Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, in the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph, September 6, 1948


The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.
- Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949


We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.
- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, quoted in Sir Am Nakbah ("The Secret Behind the Disaster") by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade. . . . He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean. . . Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down.
- Habib Issa, Secretary General of the Arab League (Azzam Pasha's successor), in the newspaper Al Hoda, June 8, 1951


Some of the Arab leaders and their ministers in Arab capitals . . . declared that they welcomed the immigration of Palestinian Arabs into the Arab countries until they saved Palestine. Many of the Palestinian Arabs were misled by their declarations.... It was natural for those Palestinian Arabs who felt impelled to leave their country to take refuge in Arab lands . . . and to stay in such adjacent places in order to maintain contact with their country so that to return to it would be easy when, according to the promises of many of those responsible in the Arab countries (promises which were given wastefully), the time was ripe. Many were of the opinion that such an opportunity would come in the hours between sunset and sunrise.
- Arab Higher Committee, in a memorandum to the Arab League, Cairo, 1952, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."
- from the Jordan daily Ad Difaa, September 6, 1954


"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."
- General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948


"The Arab exodus from other villages was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews"
- Yunes Ahmed Assad, refugee from the town of Deir Yassin, in Al Urdun, April 9, 1953


"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949


"Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe. [However] ...A large road convoy, escorted by [British] military . . . left Haifa for Beirut yesterday. . . . Evacuation by sea goes on steadily. ...[Two days later, the Jews were] still making every effort to persuade the Arab populace to remain and to settle back into their normal lives in the towns... [as for the Arabs,] another convoy left Tireh for Transjordan, and the evacuation by sea continues. The quays and harbor are still crowded with refugees and their household effects, all omitting no opportunity to get a place an one of the boats leaving Haifa.""
- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz


"The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."
- Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee, told to the United Nations Security Council, quoted in the UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14


"the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"
- The Arab National Committee of Haifa, told to the Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963


"...our city flourished and developed for the good of both Jewish and Arab residents ... Do not destroy your homes with your own hands; do not bring tragedy upon yourselves by unnecessary evacuation and self-imposed burdens. By moving out you will be overtaken by poverty and humiliation. But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life, and for peace, for you and your families."
The Haifa Workers' Council bulletin, 28 April 1948


"...the Jewish hagana asked (using loudspeakers) Arabs to remain at their homes but the most of the Arab population followed their leaders who asked them to leave the country."
The TIMES of London, reporting events of 22.4.48


" The existence of these refugees is a direct result of the Arab States' opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.
...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some thirty thousand people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

- Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948


"Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return."
- Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, (Beirut, 1973), Part 1, pp. 386-387


"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave... We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave... We have rendered them dispossessed... We have accustomed them to begging... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of political purposes..."
- Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war [note: same person as above]


"As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property."

- bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957

One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.
Commentary Magazine -- January 2000, http://www.commentarymagazine.com/0001/letters.html



HERE IS YET MORE INFO ABOUT THE REFUGEES SOME STATS!!

Estimates of the number of Arabs who fled the newly-created State of Israel in 1948 (i.e. from the area inside Israel's pre-1967 borders) vary from 430,000 to 957,000, depending on who you ask. The most reliable figure appears to be 539,000.
In the 1967 Six Day War, between 125,000 (Israeli estimate) and 250,000 (UNRWA estimate) Arabs fled from Judea, Samaria and Gaza, which came under Israeli administration. Of these, say some researchers, close on two-thirds were first-time refugees, the others were refugees from 1948 who fled once again.

According to the United Nations Relief Works Agency (UNRWA), in 1996 the number of refugees stood at 3.3 million, located as follows:

Jordan: In 10 camps - 242,922. Not in camps - 1.1 million

Judea and Samaria: In 20 camps - 147,302. Not in camps - 385,136

Gaza: In five camps - 378,279. Not in camps - 338,651

Lebanon: In 12 camps - 182,731. Not in camps - 169,937

Syria: In 10 camps - 89,472. Not in camps - 257, 919

TOTAL: In 57 camps - 1.04 million. Not in camps - 2.26 million.

- Middle East Digest - October 1998


The refugee problem was created in 1947-48, when the Palestinians and their Arab allies rejected United Nations Resolution 181 and tried to prevent by force implementation of the partition plan that called for the creation of a Jewish state alongside an Arab state in Palestine. During the fighting, 600,000 to 700,000 Arabs fled or were driven out of areas that eventually became the state of Israel. (There were also about 17,000 Jewish refugees who fled or were driven out of areas that came under Arab, i.e., Jordanian, control.) Israel's record in this chain of developments was far from spotless. But the major reason for the displacement of people was the war itself, which the Arabs imposed on Israel in an attempt to abort its birth.
The Palestinian refugees were but one example among many of the large-scale involuntary population displacements that took place during and after the First World War. Most of the other refugee problems, involving tens of millions of Karelian Finns, Sudeten Germans, and Muslims and Hindus in the Indian subcontinent, faded away as displaced populations were absorbed in countries of similar religious and/or national character. The one glaring exception was the Palestinian refugees, who found shelter but few civic or political rights in neighbouring Arab countries (Jordan being the main exception).

The refugee status of the Palestinians was perpetuated by the host countries and the Palestinian leadership, and by the international community, through the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the only UN body dedicated to a specific refugee group (all other refugees in the world are the responsibility of the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees). As a result, refugee status was passed down from father to son to grandson over 50 years, so that, today, they number three million to four million. That is why the Palestinians now account for about one-fourth of the world's refugees -- an impressive figure until one imagines how many refugees there would be if all the Finns and Germans and Indian Hindus and Muslims and European Jews who were made refugees after the Second World War (not to speak of the Greeks and Turks and Armenians who were made refugees during and after the First World War) were still considered refugees in the year 2000.

- Mark Heller, co-author of No Trumpets, No Drums: A Two-State Settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict


With regard to the Palestinian refugees today, according to the "Report of the Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East - 1 July 1997 - 30 June 1998" there were 3,521,130 refugees as of June 30, 1998 (Table 1). However, the report (available at www.unrwa.org) also states that:
UNRWA registration figures are based on information voluntarily supplied by refugees primarily for the purpose of obtaining access to Agency services, and hence cannot be considered statistically valid demographic data; the number of registered refugees present in the Agency's area of operations is almost certainly less that the population recorded.
Moreover, not only does the UN admit the figures are of doubtful accuracy, there being obvious reason for families to claim more members and thereby receive more aid, the UN also admits that the total includes 1,463,064 Jordanian citizens, who cannot by any stretch be considered refugees.
- Alexander Safian, PhD, CAMERA (The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America)



This is a joke!!!
Who qualifies for Palestinian refugee status?

Any Arab who entered Israel up to two years prior to the rebirth of the Jewish state could claim to be a Palestinian refugee, even if he and his ancestors had lived elsewhere for generations before and he owned no land or property in Palestine. [Editor's note: the UNRWA collected information from 'refugees' on an 'honor basis' without checking even the above absurdly minimal requirements]
- Middle East Digest - October 1998

all that from : http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/refugees.html


that site... has all the info one would need it seems. From many unbiased sources!!!


SHLOMO ELIYAHU

Hardly unbiased since it only seems to tell things from the Israeli perspective. Also with regards to the book you posted here's one decent review that I read:

quote:

I found the title intriquing as I like to know the facts in a situation and I was curious about the conflict in the middle east. Unfortuately, I didn't realize the book was written soley from a Israeli viewpoint and funded by a powerful political lobby (AICE) It isn't that I don't have sympathy for the Israeli cause. It's just that I wanted a balanced account. This was so pro- Israeli that it lost crediability to me. I wanted to hear the Palestinian account also so I could make up my own mind and not have it made up for me. It should be re-titled, "Myths and Facts according to the Israelis" A much better read for me was "the palestine-israeli conflict" This was an EXCELLENT book co-written by an Israeli AND a Palestinian. One chapter is written by dan cohn-sherbok and the following chapter is written by dawoud el-alami etc. It is a point, counter-point discussion and very informative. If you have already made up your mind about the conflict and are pro-Israeli then Mythis and facts is the book for you. If you have an open-mind and just want to know more about the situation and hear BOTH viewpoints then the second book I mentioned is the one you should buy. More books should be written in this format.

I may go ahead and read the book she stated. It seems like I would learn about the region in general rather than just from the Israeli perspective. People seem to suffer from a misconception of what bias is. Just because a source is biased doesn't mean that what it is saying is false ... it simply means that it is only telling things from one perspective. HonestReporting will ALWAYS be biased because it was created by a pro-Israeli group and it seems to only report errors that are pro-Israeli. It doesn't mean that what it is saying is false ... it just means you should read what it says and take it with a grain of salt.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Hardly unbiased since it only seems to tell things from the Israeli perspective. Also with regards to the book you posted here's one decent review that I read: I may go ahead and read the book she stated. It seems like I would learn about the region in general rather than just from the Israeli perspective. People seem to suffer from a misconception of what bias is. Just because a source is biased doesn't mean that what it is saying is false ... it simply means that it is only telling things from one perspective. HonestReporting will ALWAYS be biased because it was created by a pro-Israeli group and it seems to only report errors that are pro-Israeli. It doesn't mean that what it is saying is false ... it just means you should read what it says and take it with a grain of salt.

yes your right about the being bias not being necessarily wrong.

you know... honestreporting was started by my friend here I learn with him everyday and I will see him tommorow morning i'll tell him what u said...

He is like 26 and from england... He says in a paraphrase, thats its not fair that the world reads their newspapers thinking they are getting the truth, someone needs to organize a voice to speak against the newspapers that want to write wrong articles...

and the first thing they wrote about have u seen it?? it was a totally wrong article, based on a picture of an american jew who was beaten by arabs, but the newspaper said it was a picture of an arab who was getting beaten by israeli police!!! the guy who was beaten in the picture actually wrote in himself and said that the newspaper was lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so like with us facing these problems, honestreporting is a blessing!!!

anyways i gotta go... just wanted to say, that the myths and fact book written by israeli sources whatever, means nothing if you want to know the truth, because it is using facts and presents it in the israeli way, and you have to know, atleast believe that israel doesn't want any war with the arabs, because if israel wanted war, they could of easily wiped out all the arabs around them in Israel... Israel wants peace, and there is no reason to think an israeli source is going to make stuff up cause ultimately the reason behind all israeli movements is to inform the world that seems to want to be involved, that there is a truth to the conflict, which is being distorted to cause whatever pain possible to the jews and Israel!

SHLOMO ELIYAHU

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