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-- The end of Lightning Records...
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quote:

Originally posted by tommie It's confirmed, statement by Jurgen Leyers avail here, http://trance.nu/v3/news_show.php?id=1508 Congrats mp3 rippers, you just fucked up one of our scenes most respectable label.

Tommie- tell me you never downloaded any music file of any kind...

Idiot!

If it weren't for mp3s I wouldn't own half as many of the vinyls from lightning records (and their sub-labels)as I do. I think this great, great loss is down to bad management rather than mp3. Just because mp3s exist doesn't mean all these downloads would translate directly into sales. In my case, I download a lot of music. And I buy all the best stuff on vinyl. So if anything it means I spend more cash on vinyl... not less!

lateRZ,

barryfigiel

quote:

Originally posted by tommie It's confirmed, statement by Jurgen Leyers avail here, http://trance.nu/v3/news_show.php?id=1508 Congrats mp3 rippers, you just fucked up one of our scenes most respectable label.

That was a really really dumb comment, labels do not go down cause of mp3's being spread, as has been said in many posts its bad management that fucked up lightning not the mp3 scene.

Fucking fool

this is sad news
guess the rumours were true
but i dont think we have to worry that much
producers like dj fire, l-vee and certainly mike will eventualy get signed by other labels. cant imagine there will be no labels that want such producers?

quote:

Originally posted by Nige| That was a really really dumb comment, labels do not go down cause of mp3's being spread, as has been said in many posts its bad management that fucked up lightning not the mp3 scene. Fucking fool

i think youve got to understand that mp3s have played their part against this company when it suffered from one its main artists (Airwave) having his whole album ripped to mp3 and distributed before it had even seen light of day within the company, let alone before release. you cant say this was a justified promotional benefit.

i agree that its silly to say mp3s were the sole cause of lightnings problems but it definitely played some part in a way that is affecting all labels. its a stripping of any controlled strategy that the label has in promoting a track, records are promoted and released in a certain way for a reason that is rewarding to both artist and label and is therefore vitally important in the perpetuation of that music.

You cant ignore the fact that many of the biggest artists in this scene are actively speaking out against some aspects of mp3 distribution and i think its something you should not dismiss so easily. Or leap to justify mp3 rips so quickly....

this isnt a snipe at you nige, just using your comments as a basis mate

fuck!

tears in my eyes

Lightening records forever!

fuck!

tears in my eyes

Lightening records forever!

quote:

Originally posted by barryfigiel Tommie- tell me you never downloaded any music file of any kind... Idiot! If it weren't for mp3s I wouldn't own half as many of the vinyls from lightning records (and their sub-labels)as I do. I think this great, great loss is down to bad management rather than mp3. Just because mp3s exist doesn't mean all these downloads would translate directly into sales. In my case, I download a lot of music. And I buy all the best stuff on vinyl. So if anything it means I spend more cash on vinyl... not less! lateRZ, barryfigiel

quote:

Originally posted by Nige| That was a really really dumb comment, labels do not go down cause of mp3's being spread, as has been said in many posts its bad management that fucked up lightning not the mp3 scene. Fucking fool

Wake up and smell the reality. It's obvious that both of you guys is completely without insight in the label business. Sure, some parts might have been bad management, but the majority of the problems regarding Lightning was financial income.

Like someone pointed out earlier, Airwaves album was ripped and "released" on the net before it was even finished. And sure, it's a nice utopia that you actually belive that people will buy cd's. But trust me, they don't.

The largest income for labels used to be compilations, get one of your signed artists onto a well known compilation and that month economy is take care of. Today, no one buys compilations, why? Well, we buy vinyls or download gems of the net.

The situation today is more or less "I Like this artists therefor i will support him by buying his/hers album/vinly", and yes, that works, but it's a extremely small amount of money involved in those releases (exempt if you name is Tijs Verwest and produces under the guise 'Dj Tiesto'). Before mp3 it was "Oh, i need some new tunes, i better buy this new compilation from -insert your favorite label-".

So, is the solution to start buying compilations, probably not since this has been going on for to long time now. The future of trance? Well, worst case scenario is that more and more labels disappears and less quality is releases, why? Simple, no one will be able to live from musical income, at least not within our scene.

So whats left if multi-sized-labels with artists such as Britney Spears and Backstreet boys.

horray.

Sad day(s) for the music industry, but blaming everything on:

a. 99% of your audience which is not part of the mp3 scene
b. 1% of your audience which is part of the mp3 scene in some way (ripping, leeching...)

is simply... dangerous. You could miss something IMO.

There are several points I'd like to bring to the discussion:

1. I think compilations have also been suffering (at least here in Switzerland) of the crazy number of releases on the market... Here we've got a compilation for each big event, and since a compilation is priced between 15 and 20 �... economy not going so well -> people stopped buying them, it's really difficult for record companies, labels AND for party organizers to survive the crisis.

2. People want new stuff. We begin to see here many people turning to DVD. And I think many labels/majors didn't see the opportunity to bring what people are waiting for. I speak for the global market. Music industry didn't follow the trends... one of the only example I can think of is the way ID and T handles his massive raves compilations such as Trance Energy or Rank1 CDs (bundled with DVD) !

3. Again... thinking that mp3 killed the compilations market is not something I can imagine. Label compilations in Switzerland don't exist, mp3 scene in Switzerland does not exist as it does in other countries such as The Netherlands or United Kingdom, and sales dropped dramatically. Don't blame it on Kazaa!...

Cheers,

Romain / tekkno.cc

Let's put it this way tommie. If mp3's did not exist, where would armin, tiesto, ferry, sander kleinenberg, mike and lolo be in north america. It's nice that you put the blame 100% on mp3's which is totally false. Mp3's may have had something to do with it but afterall, the ppl who buy vinyl are going to continue to buy vinyl and I sense that it was more bad business decisions adding to the mix. Let's see, fire and ice, mike and lolo always sold well but it was the other releases that hurt them because hardly anyone wanted to buy them. Keep going on about mp3's....maybe someone might listen to you. What about your buddy airbase, if mp3's did not exist he would not be where he is today?. Same problem is with the big labels because they spend so much time fighting piracy, they forget to correctly market and promote their releases. Did Lightning realize that their target market changed...did they do anything to correct change their market strategy...i better stop now....this is all probably over your head.

I think imo there is 2 sides to it

Yes, artists have gained more recognition from mp3s, and a lot of people without them would be stuck listening to the cd's put out by the 'big' companies full of manufactured shite

BUT - Like Airwaves album, maybe hewas foolish for it to get out how it did, im not sure on full circumstances, but it seems that artists who in the past praised mp3 for helping them, and now turning their back on them, for example, Airbase tommie, Jezper, would not be who he is without mp3, and a lot of other artists, maybe flutlicht, shokk etc

When i first got the net, a lot were unheard of, but some compilations were ok, now they're full of shit and not worth buying most of them.

As for labels, its upsetting to see them go, but maybe they have planned badly financially, and are using the mp3 angle as a scapegoat, I guess we'll never know, but one thing is that labels had a chance 4 or 5 years ago to utilise mp3s themselves, and if they had distributed them for small fees, like 1 Euro/Dollar per mp3, I'd be happy to pay if i knew the money went back to the artists, and not to the label executives.

Then you have the RIAA who seem to do everything in their power to help themselves to huge profits, but where are they helping smaller labels, its like a monopoly, and an unfair one at that, and maybe this needs to be broken down to reduce their power, and to make things easier, esp for the remaining dance labels

the problem is they have been doing too many releases, turning themselves into an industry that has to generate superior amounts of return from investment , , more releases = more thing to buy but seeing the overall purchase of vinyl has not gone up they cannot possibly be financially fulfilled

...law of nature -- Survival of the Fittest. To do so, one (in this case, a label) must adapt to the changing environment. You want to run a business? You need to assess various factors to get to the bottom line -- PROFIT. Blaming it on MP3s, when they are giving the labels free exposure, without the need for RADIOS, is just plain retarded. People WILL pay to hear music...they have in the past and they will in the future. Thinking of ways that the people may enjoy the music is where the money is to be had. Bleh...whatever


R I P -- Lightning Records

quote:

Originally posted by tranceman78 that's so sad, but it reflects the state of the industry.

it's a good possibility

One of my all-time favorite label is gone. This is a sad day for me.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance Let's put it this way tommie. If mp3's did not exist, where would armin, tiesto, ferry, sander kleinenberg, mike and lolo be in north america. It's nice that you put the blame 100% on mp3's which is totally false. Mp3's may have had something to do with it but afterall, the ppl who buy vinyl are going to continue to buy vinyl and I sense that it was more bad business decisions adding to the mix. Let's see, fire and ice, mike and lolo always sold well but it was the other releases that hurt them because hardly anyone wanted to buy them. Keep going on about mp3's....maybe someone might listen to you. What about your buddy airbase, if mp3's did not exist he would not be where he is today?. Same problem is with the big labels because they spend so much time fighting piracy, they forget to correctly market and promote their releases. Did Lightning realize that their target market changed...did they do anything to correct change their market strategy...i better stop now....this is all probably over your head.

theres so many holes in this arguement. dont start critisizing labels, majors, indies or lightning about how they promote or market their product in these times where i can assure you that even the biggest trance releases are not selling well. the european market is a lot different from north america and canada so what knowledge/experience do you have of it?

I'm in business...so I'm more than qualified to say that because I understand far better than others. My problem is that you place the blame squarly on 1 thing when it was probably one of the many problems. Music Industry as a whole does not want to change and get with the times and that's one of the things that is hurting them. Markets change over yrs and you need to keep current and other factors change that you need to be aware of.

OMFG, WTF!? labels close all the time, the artists will find instant new homes, its not the end of the world. and toronto, you appear to be babbling the same line over and over. more than qualified? dosent sound like it mate, waht is your supposed position in the business? or did you mean business as in business studies not the industry itself?!

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance I'm in business...so I'm more than qualified to say that because I understand far better than others. My problem is that you place the blame squarly on 1 thing when it was probably one of the many problems. Music Industry as a whole does not want to change and get with the times and that's one of the things that is hurting them. Markets change over yrs and you need to keep current and other factors change that you need to be aware of.

dont apply general business theories to the music industry my friend, its that sort of thinking that has contributed to its recent demise. too many loose cheque books and signings and releases based on sales figures rather than building talent. but i do agree that the blame should certainly not lie directly with mp3s, lots of factors contribute. mp3s is an easy target which has proven to be beneficial in spreading the word and detrimental in decreasing demand of saleable product. if there can be a way in which the two can work together then everyone would be happy.

lots of labels have 'got with the times' a long time back but what can you do about your product being given away for free? at least the labels and artists should be allowed the authority to control the free music, but no, generally people demand it right here, right now as if they have a right to it. the artist makes an amazing tune and makes a statement against its spreading on mp3 and the leecher says 'fine...but f*ck you, i have the right to listen to whatever i want. you have got enough promotion from mp3' this happens until there is no more music to mp3 and then they say 'thats that' and move onto to leech something else. its human nature to be selfish and greedy at times although you could say that the artist could live off PAs that are promoted through the spread of mp3s and just make his music for free....not sure about this.

i would hope that the lightning situation would make some people have a good long think about the knock on effects of mp3 even if it isnt directly the cause of their downfall. listen to what the artists are saying (marco v, mike, dj fire, steve helstrip) and take notice.

quote:

Originally posted by tommie It's confirmed, statement by Jurgen Leyers avail here, http://trance.nu/v3/news_show.php?id=1508 Congrats mp3 rippers, you just fucked up one of our scenes most respectable label.

haha, ive said it before and i'll say it again:

bonzai/lightining wud sell nowhere near as many records without mp3 that is a fact mate.

when was the last time u heard a bonzai tune on the radio and thought, "ill buy that"?

now think the same with mp3

case dismissed, dont bite the hand that feeds u

quote:

dont apply general business theories to the music industry my friend, its that sort of thinking that has contributed to its recent demise. too many loose cheque books and signings and releases based on sales figures rather than building talent. but i do agree that the blame should certainly not lie directly with mp3s, lots of factors contribute. mp3s is an easy target which has proven to be beneficial in spreading the word and detrimental in decreasing demand of saleable product. if there can be a way in which the two can work together then everyone would be happy.

actually business theories can apply and should apply to business situations but I'm using business knowledge..no fucking theories. Bottom line...they are bankrupt...what caused it...a number of factors...mp3's, bad mgt, not completely in tune with market and other shit. I do agree with you that people need to go out and buy cd's but I do understand that the price is hurting some ppl who want to buy more but can't. Now I'm not saying that is a reasonable excuse to download albums, personally I say go look in used cd stores. You find amazing albums all the time and normally your friends hear you play it in the car and someone's house and go out and buy it for themselves. Personally I don't download albums and I own too many cd's (space is running out...rofl)....i bought gu012 and gu018 on monday morning for 37 at some used cd store. Friend of mine liked gu012 so much..he went out and bought it himself. Support artists, buy cd's.

quote:

Originally posted by Dumonde Trancer haha, ive said it before and i'll say it again: bonzai/lightining wud sell nowhere near as many records without mp3 that is a fact mate. when was the last time u heard a bonzai tune on the radio and thought, "ill buy that"? now think the same with mp3 case dismissed, dont bite the hand that feeds u

pfffft. pure crap. bonzai has been going for 10 years, long before mp3 and i think that gives the authority to make judgements based on our sales figures, dont you? heh

quote:

Originally posted by demons pfffft. pure crap. bonzai has been going for 10 years, long before mp3 and i think that gives the authority to make judgements based on our sales figures, dont you? heh

yes i know but im making the point that mp3 would be more likely to increase sales rather than decrease... im not saying i knwo the actual sales figures, its all about sacrifcing peopel who would buy CD's for promotion thru mp3, altho beyond your control unless u go all RIAA

Oh yay!! Let's blame mp3s for all the problems in the world!!!

If u don't like mp3s and think they are ruining the industry try to come up with clever ways to compete with it.
Just don't sit on your asses and complain!
Mp3 is kinda like a "give n take" thing, it have done many great things for the industry and yes, it may have put down sales a couple of %!
But to blaim mp3 for the close down of a major record label...
No way!!!

A label that has been around for over 10 years don't go bankrupt just like that(?)! They must have had some kinda of buffer.
What happend to that?

If u run a supermarket and somebody else starts a supermarket with better products across the street that takes all your customers away from u. Do u just sit in your store and complain?

I'm just ranting...but I don't like this blaim mp3 talk.
Mp3s are here to stay! Period!!

LateRZ!

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