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Originally posted by fr0st Ok for the female circumsisions.....women in muslim culture are not meant to have pleasure during sex, a womens sole purpose is to please the husband...i think also they dry the vagina out soo it has more friction....i forgot what they used but it is extremely painful for the women.. and makes most women not want sex at all...India is the exact oposite..they do some freaky shit with beads sooo they can please the women better, but thats a whole nother story.. And now on to male circumsisions its true it is a Jewish tradion, but it is also for sanitary reasons most children when they are younger can't or dont clean them selves properly, thus causing infections.....I'm not saying most people dont clean them selves properly, im just saying the facts. If you have it done its just less of a chance plain and simple.

its not muslim culture, it perhaps their countries culture, i am a muslim, and in islam, it says that both the man and women should pleasure from sex. different cultures go to extremes about this thing, but as for what the religion says, ti says both should have pleasure from sex. and those arent the facts, thats some bullshit, no offense to you

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Originally posted by biznology and who is sounding immature and 'retarded' now? if you know the facts, just correct them. no need to bash, ok?|

i agree with you, i corrected them as well

Most of the positive things said about circumcision are lies. There are something like 15 or so square inches of nerves in the foreskin (in fact, 90% or so percent of the fine touch, encapsulated nerve ending are located in the foreskin). The foreskin helps provides a sliding mechanism for intercourse. Foreskin does not reduce the number of illnesses you'll get growing up or as an adult (actually, circumcision often produces several hundred fold more complications than simply being uncut). Having foreskin creates pheromones. Lack of foreskin can often lead to dryness and chafing of the glans. It is also done on infants without any anaestesia and takes nearly 2 weeks to fully heal, during which the wound is open. Circumcision to primates has also caused permanent sexual behaviour change.

Keep in mind we've not been circumcising for x thousand number of years and we've been fine.

Phimosis, another reason given for circumcision (tightening of the foreskin so it can't be retracted), can usually be corrected with steroidal creams or manual stretching, and only 10% or so probably need surgical correction, and alternatives are cheaper and have less incidence of complications than circumcision.

The only positive, scientific thing which one could point out for circumcision would be that it protects against HIV. Why? Because there are certain receptors the HIV locks onto located in the foreskin, which increases your incidence of infection.

And, no, it doesn't taste bad if you're uncut.

All in all, though, I don't think circumcision can be justified.

(Yes, this is true, I had to do a paper on it...)

for u euros who r wondering its like getin a haircut. j/k

flame away

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Originally posted by DJ Nuclear And, no, it doesn't taste bad if you're uncut.

Wtf does it taste like?

I'm curious to know.

Geeeeezuss!!
Please tell me part of your report didn't include you tasting it! or finding out how it "tastes"! LOL!!!!

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Originally posted by Provitex Geeeeezuss!! Please tell me part of your report didn't include you tasting it! or finding out how it "tastes"! LOL!!!!

Who said that was part of the report? *snerk*

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Wtf does it taste like?

Ask Az. He'd know. *dodge*

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Originally posted by ali92 Such as??? You give no examples. I'm one of the people on here (I'm sure there are others on this board) who wonder exactly WHAT do you mean and what countries are involved. My uncle Ali's from Tehran, Iran and he never told me that anything like that before happens or has happened in Iran at some point in time.

i believe the practice she was refering to, female circumsision is not middle eastern but done in africa on girls. ive seen shows on it here and it truly is barbaric...

btw....i had my son circumsised..it was a choice they dont do it automaticly. they did use anastetic and its not a tramatic event for babies. my son didnt even cry...infact he slept through it.

They don't normally use anaesthetics, at least not in the past (maybe they do now..). Didn't for my brothers. Still, I think it should be up to the person whether or not they have a surgery with permanently alters their body without a definite medical cause...After all, you can also get it later, but you can't just recall it once it's been done.

Not to say you did the wrong thing or anything... I'm sure you only want what's best for your kid...this is an issue like religion...

How are you supposed to ask a six-week old whether they want a circumcision or not!? Lol. If it's done when they're old enough to decide, they'd have to go through all that discomfort.

Since I winced at that sentence about likening it to having the clitoris rubbing on the clothes all the time... FUCK OW.

it was a topical anastetic..

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Originally posted by White_Raven360 How are you supposed to ask a six-week old

its not done at six weeks...its done in the hospital after birth. or the day after...

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Originally posted by White_Raven360 How are you supposed to ask a six-week old whether they want a circumcision or not!? Lol. If it's done when they're old enough to decide, they'd have to go through all that discomfort. Since I winced at that sentence about likening it to having the clitoris rubbing on the clothes all the time... FUCK OW.

It's hard to say how it affects them initially as well...there's always great debate about whether or not stuff done to kids when they're newborn is remembered or not. It's hard to say, really. I've seen evidence pointing both ways...

I think we'll eventually push beyond this as a society, but it's been pretty well established as a tradition and it's stubborn to change.

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Originally posted by Sugarbean its not done at six weeks...its done in the hospital after birth. or the day after...

Well, whatever. How are you supposed to ask a baby if it wants a circumcision?

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Originally posted by White_Raven360 Well, whatever. How are you supposed to ask a baby if it wants a circumcision?

Exactly. You can't. That's why babies shouldn't be forced to undergo any irreversible physical procedures. It is just as uncomfortable for a baby as it is for a full-grown man. Only difference is a man knows what he's going in for and can choose whether to do it or not. A baby can't. While circumcision under anaesthesia is not painful, it does become highly uncomfortable after the anaesthetic wears of and the glans begins to rub against the baby's diapers etc. as he moves around. Apart from religious reasons, which no-one can really argue against, I can think of little justification for forcing a child to undergo this unnecessary procedure.

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Originally posted by SgtFoo For the non jews, probably done because of cleanliness reasons or jsut family traditions....meh. But as for the jewish religion.... There once was a prophet in the desert with Moses. I'm not sure who told him or why (ask a rabbi)(heheh that rhymed) but he was told to cut off his foreskin. All those of his children and tribe thereon did the same I believe. By the way, he was an old man at the time of the cutting, so he was surely in dying pain. OUCH!!!!!!!! But yea..apparently most girls like it better cut.

that . . . . and also because god told him to do it to his children because it was the ultimate way of identifying true followers of their god.

i think all jews and most catholics do this. . . .

i remember when i learned about circumcisions :0

it wasn't in school, from friends or parents

it was when Al Bundy got on on Married With Children, wanted one ever since

Both Jews and Muslims practice circumcisions.... as part of religous requirments.... and some christians are also required....

Many other ppl do it too....out of tradition and choice...
there are some obvious pro's like cleanliness and some con's like risks of a poorly done circumcision.....
some parents find it inhumane!..... and find it uneccessary for their kid to go thru the pain (that he won't even remember!)....

Regardless....
There are no significant advantages/disadvantages to favor one side over the other.... so....it really doesn't matter!

Well if it's good enough for porn stars it's good enough for me!

Here's a recent ABC article about female circumcision if you're interested:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/worl.../fgm030312.html

Parts of it make me shudder.

imo it has nothing to do with cleanliness, unless you are lazy and dirty at the same time

i blame jews

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Originally posted by White_Raven360 Well, whatever. How are you supposed to ask a baby if it wants a circumcision?

obviously you cant ask a baby if it wants a circumsision...you missed the point. its a choice of the mothers of these children. i didnt want to ask him. its my choice whether or not I want my son to be circumsised. who in their right mind would want to have it done when their older. how many people do you come across who had a circumsision at 20 or whatever age...

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Originally posted by astroboy While circumcision under anaesthesia is not painful, it does become highly uncomfortable after the anaesthetic wears of and the glans begins to rub against the baby's diapers etc. as he moves around..

you obviously dont know anything about newborns. newborns barely move by themselves, some dont even open their eyes all the way..if at all till the second or third day of life... and spend 18 to 22 hours a day sleeping. it only takes a few days for it to completly heal and their is no discomfort when you use the ointment provided by the hospitals...the cut is less than 2 millimeters in length if that...looks like a papercut..

*ignores the jew comment*

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Originally posted by Sugarbean obviously you cant ask a baby if it wants a circumsision...you missed the point. its a choice of the mothers of these children. i didnt want to ask him. its my choice whether or not I want my son to be circumsised. who in their right mind would want to have it done when their older. how many people do you come across who had a circumsision at 20 or whatever age...

That's the point. Very few older men would choose to have a circumcision, because its an uncomfortable and unnecessary procedure. If they think that they're really missing out on something (?) by being uncircumcised they can decide whether the discomfort and risk is worth it. The point is most uncircumcised people think it is pointless to have this unnecessary procedure and that's why "no person in their right mind" would do it. The only difference is that babies can't express themselves and tell you that they'd rather not have it. The problem is mother's don't see their babies as "people". Hence you can see that no person in their right mind would have a circumcision while they can express their opinions, but babies who can't tell you that they don;t need a circumcision are seen to be consenting by their silence.

Let me ask you a (admittedly hypothetical) question:
How would you like your parents to have given you irreversible tattoos or genital piercings (i know neither of these things are irreversible in real life, but imagine they were) because they thought it looked cool. No parent in their right mind would do it and not doctor in their right mind would perform it right? Essentially its the same as a circumcision - just as invasive, just as pointless and just as non-consensual. The only difference is society has, due to historical reasons, accepted this form of non-consensual, irreversible, unjustifiable form of child-mutilation.

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you obviously dont know anything about newborns. newborns barely move by themselves, some dont even open their eyes all the way..if at all till the second or third day of life... and spend 18 to 22 hours a day sleeping. it only takes a few days for it to completly heal and their is no discomfort when you use the ointment provided by the hospitals... *ignores the jew comment*

They may not have very good control of their motor functions and require a lot of sleep, but they're still people and they still feel discomfort and pain. Medical studies have been done and they prove that babies cry more than average after anaesthetic wears off following surgical procedures including circumcisions. Further discomfort/pain is caused by the newly exposed glans of the penis chafing against the diapers/bandages. and even with anaesthetic ointments you have permanently altered your childs genitalia without his consent. Would you like it if your clitoris were made less sensitive without your consent? Of course not, but if it was done while you were a baby you wouldn;t know what you were missing out on.

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the cut is less than 2 millimeters in length if that...looks like a papercut..

you must mean width because less than two millimetres would be the distance between these two dots> .. and no normal foreskin is attached to the penis by that small an area, the incision should go all the way around the circumference and through the "webbing" (don't know the anatomical term) at the bottom.

The point is, minus the discomfort and pain... it is a surgical procedure (something people consider a last resort even when they're having serious medical problems). And people are putting their children through it because they "want it to look like dad's".


P.S. I share your sentiments regarding the ant-semitic remark (perhaps it was an "attempt" at humour ).

Well, whatever the rest of you are debating about..
i havn't had the snip, still got the full 13.42 inches..

if the male circumstision is done in a clean environment with all the anesthetics and correct clean equipment then that's fine.

the female type's 1 of the most barbaric things i've ever heard of.

i'm quite chuffed with my foreskin fun to play with when bored

hope that rumor about the remainder bein used to make doggy food aint true!

neways, just thought i'd add my views to the post!!

happy Paddy's wkend to ye all!
i cant wait to sunday night
take her handy folks!

Davo

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