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-- Is it Worth it?
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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why dont you show us those pictures!

if I find them, sure I'll post them.
But are you are questioning the fact that hundreds of thousands of people, including children, were murdered or died because of Saddam?

Not just during the war with Iran, or strikes against the Kurds, - but also during his regular "political tenure"?

If so, you are deeply misinformed.....

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek hahaha very easy, those children are deformed because uranium depleted shells were used in the first gulf war (also in serbia) and I don't see any reasons why they wouldn't be used in this war. [/url]

Yesterday the CBC radio news coverage said that it was also because of the toxins left over from the burning oil fields. OH ya deformed babies are born all the time in every animal on earth so dont let this hype everything all to hell.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why dont you show us those pictures!

Right; as if you don't know full well that those picture's exist and aer all over the net if you just open your eye's.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene if I find them, sure I'll post them. But are you are questioning the fact that hundreds of thousands of people, including children, were murdered or died because of Saddam? Not just during the war with Iran, strikes against the Kurds, - but also during his regular "political tenure"? If so, you are deeply misinformed.....

Where are you getting the humber "hundreds of thousands" from...i beleive with respect to rape and political murder its in the thousands... stop exagerrating.

I am with you that Saddam is a horible man, including his sons.... and they need to be removed... but i dont think that it is the US's priority... they only make it sound like thats their priority

The world is angry at your nation right now... yes YOUR NATION.... and i see many bad things happening to it in the near future. Your monkey president has pissed off BILLIONS of people... that isnt good

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Right; as if you don't know full well that those picture's exist and aer all over the net if you just open your eye's.

Please shoe them to me if you strongly beleive they exist.... i havent seen any so far...

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Where are you getting the humber "hundreds of thousands" from...i beleive with respect to rape and political murder its in the thousands... stop exagerrating.

All I can say is, DAYMN!
You're either in denial, or have lived in a cave!
Even your friends JohnSmith and fastmp3 will confirm the figure - I repeat - "hundreds of thousands" - during Hussein's reign, including the 1980s and his disastrous war in Iran, and the 1988 slaughter of thousands of Kurds with chemical weapons.

quote:

The world is angry at your nation right now... yes YOUR NATION.... and i see many bad things happening to it in the near future. Your monkey president has pissed off BILLIONS of people... that isnt good

It's called "changing the subject"

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene All I can say is, DAYMN! You're either in denial, or have lived in a cave! Even your friends JohnSmith and fastmp3 will confirm the figure - I repeat - "hundreds of thousands" - during Hussein's reign, including the 1980s and his disastrous war in Iran, and the 1988 slaughter of thousands of Kurds with chemical weapons. It's called "changing the subject"

Eugene would u please explain to me why the stock market rose 200 points after the war started..How come the gas prices are down? how come bush is gaining popularity all of a sudden..u are all talking about how sadam should be removed and stuff but no one is payin attension that this is not the REAL MOTIVE for the war..the country has succeeded in pulling away the attension out of the real reasons for the war..i would say SAVING THE IRAQI PEOPLE is only 10% why bush started war. the other 90% can be summed up to him gaining popularity,every president must leave a legacy and thats his maybe it will help him to get reelected,boom in the economy and securing oil.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic SAVING THE IRAQI PEOPLE is only 10% why bush started war.

IT aint over till the fat lady sings. If the US/UN reforms the Iraq gov and gets trade and commerce flowing again then its a win win situation for all. Regardless of legacys and other BS political agendas. If it doesnt then thats a difrent story altogether. DONT JUMP THE GUN.

@ tranceaholic

quote:

why dont u make useful comment on the discussion in hand..

So, anyone who disagrees with the war-bashing going on here, and feels that the photo-propaganda of dead children is one-sided and therefore wrong, -- automatically makes "non-useful" posts?

quote:

Eugene would u please explain to me why the stock market rose 200 points after the war started..How come the gas prices are down? how come bush is gaining popularity all of a sudden..u are all talking about how sadam should be removed and stuff but no one is payin attension that this is not the REAL MOTIVE for the war..the country has succeeded in pulling away the attension out of the real reasons for the war..i would say SAVING THE IRAQI PEOPLE is only 10% why bush started war. the other 90% can be summed up to him gaining popularity,every president must leave a legacy and thats his maybe it will help him to get reelected,boom in the economy and securing oil.

I agree that saving the Iraqi people was not the main motive for starting the war. The main motive was preventing the threat of terrorism and WMD. And this motive became especially visible after 9/11. Previously, the world's perception of itself had been different. In this day and age, what a country does inside its borders -- developing chemical weapons, for example -- is no longer a matter of its national sovereignty. It's a matter of the international community, which must interfere. Keep in mind that chemical weapons had never been used after WWI (!), until the late 1980s when Saddam actually used them against the Kurds. That was overstepping all binding international laws. And after 9/11, the world can no longer overlook the danger of Saddam's regime.

I can see your point, though, how "saving the Iraqi people" as figuring among Bush's motives could be seen as somewhat hypocritical (why didn't you save them before?).

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene @ tranceaholic So, anyone who disagrees with the war-bashing going on here, and feels that the photo-propaganda of dead children is one-sided and therefore wrong, -- automatically makes "non-useful" posts? I agree that saving the Iraqi people was not the main motive for starting the war. The main motive was preventing the threat of terrorism and WMD. And this motive became especially visible after 9/11. Previously, the world's perception of itself had been different. In this day and age, what a country does inside its borders -- developing chemical weapons, for example -- is no longer a matter of its national sovereignty. It's a matter of the international community, which must interfere. Keep in mind that chemical weapons had never been used after WWI (!), until the late 1980s when Saddam actually used them against the Kurds. That was overstepping all binding international laws. And after 9/11, the world can no longer overlook the danger of Saddam's regime. I can see your point, though, how "saving the Iraqi people" as figuring among Bush's motives could be seen as somewhat hypocritical (why didn't you save them before?).

was that so bad? thats why i am against this war cause u name it operation freedom iraq..while its the least of ur priorities.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene All I can say is, DAYMN! You're either in denial, or have lived in a cave! Even your friends JohnSmith and fastmp3 will confirm the figure - I repeat - "hundreds of thousands" - during Hussein's reign, including the 1980s and his disastrous war in Iran, and the 1988 slaughter of thousands of Kurds with chemical weapons. It's called "changing the subject"

I know he has killed hundreds ofd thousands of people.... but WITH RESPECT TO RAPE AND POLITICAL MURDER its not in the hundreds of thousands....

With respect to civilians and others etc... yes.. he is evil and has killed hundreds of thousands.

Whatever you do, bro, and whatever you think, don't defend Saddam...
And don't display his flag in your sig, like fastmp3 does...

that only reveals utter ignorance and stupidity...

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Whatever you do, bro, and whatever you think, don't defend Saddam... And don't display his flag in your sig, like fastmp3 does... that only reveals utter ignorance and stupidity...

Although i dont have the desire to place Iraq's flag under my sig, i dont think there is anything wrong with that. I hope you dont conjoin the Iraqi flag with supporting Saddam? In fact... throughout many of the protests ive seen on TV, many people of all races were carying Iraq's flag as a support for their people.... I think Fastmp3 is supporting the people as opposed to that crazy fuck Saddam.

Same with the American flag, many people carry the American flag around, but that doesnt mean they support that fuck head bush.

So Eugene you're telling me the B52 shower over Baghdad yesterday was accurate on military bases? are you telling me war is doing effect? so you rape the whole country to get to Saddam? that makes sense right?
So after raping the whole country, and barely few people left surviving, not to mention they will get an after effect of the war, the whole strategic point is to re-enter all sort of population from the west to settle in Iraq and abuse it in their own interests.
We made it clearer than possible that everybody wants Saddam out, but use your brains, does it makes sense to wipe the freakin Iraqi population?

Eugene please enjoy more atrocities

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Whatever you do, bro, and whatever you think, don't defend Saddam... And don't display his flag in your sig, like fastmp3 does... that only reveals utter ignorance and stupidity...

listen Eugene stop talking shit behind my back , you've got a problem with me ==>> PM me

as for ignorance and stupidity , i leave them to you , if you still don't realise that i show my support to irakis by waving their flag then fuck off and fuck off big time , this is the third time i explain it to you but you're still stubborn , besides it's none of your friggin' business.

this is my 2nd warning , and hopefully the last otherwise i'm gonna take other measures.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Keep in mind that chemical weapons had never been used after WWI (!), until the late 1980s when Saddam actually used them against the Kurds. That was overstepping all binding international laws. And after 9/11, the world can no longer overlook the danger of Saddam's regime.

You do know which countries supported Saddam when he did this during the 80's right? And who helped him develop the various chemical/biological weapons everybody is complaining?

Plus, I really do think that 9/11 didn't change a thing about Saddam's regime, he was a bastard before and he is a bastard now, but he had nothing to do with 9/11. I can't really prove that obviously but nobody seems to be able to prove that he had something to with it either.

And by the way, I've been wondering about a thing lately. I'm really not an weapons expert or anything but wouldn't Napalm classify as a chemical weapon?

Re: Is it Worth it?

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic well here is how i view things..now that thw war have started.. The US will not be able to get Sadam.. They will bomb iraq shitless.. Lots of taxpayers money will be lost on this war Lots of lives will be lost american and iraqi economic depression Forign relations destroyed IT will be come the most hated country ever.. Is this all worth it?

five of seven isn't so bad. i hate bumping old threads, but the recent figures on the expenditures has given me pause to think about what proponent and dectractors wrote when the war started. i think this post most closely expresses what i believed back then.

Yeah, reviving threads like this years later really shows how things have changed, and how funny/interesting some comments like these were at the time:

quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I will love to see what you guys post when you are proven wrong. I was against this war for a long time, but now, I know that the United States is doing the right thing.

LMAO

quote:

Originally posted by King_Mack wont the war cost american tax payers like 5 grand over ten years EACH..or something to that extent. It was a pretty high figure, I heard this on CNN. The figure might be a bit off.

^^ I never thought about that in 2003-2004. Its bigger now ;-)

I was just doing the same

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