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-- Cyrus, AZ, Nalin, Ahamalek, Tranceaholic
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edit: sorry double post
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| Originally posted by Izzy excuse me for being a bit arrogant but there isnt much evidence showing that the refugees were forced to leave or done so under threats. furthermore i tend to belive a steady, free, open, and accountable government, more so then the word of a group of people, especially ones with a motive behind their gripe. thats why, imho, i think its more like this: (A)--->THE TRUTH<-------------------(B) ps. i wouldnt call it a 'jewish' government. although the majority of the parliment is jewish there are non-jews in it. call it the 'israeli' goverenment. just as i wouldnt call the american government a 'christian' government. |
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| Originally posted by occrider Well I semi-agree with you in this respects. I do think the there is enough evidence to support possible claims that the massacres at deir yassin did occur. Instead of A) and B) beign the refugee problem I should have labelled them Israel's side and Palestinian side. |
Izzy, i have a non-sexual crush on you!
Love your posts!
As always, they have something relavent to offer to the debate.
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| Originally posted by Izzy true, although there might be enough evidence to support a claim that the massacres at deir yassin occurred, it is the single and only argument that is constantly given. i belive in order to charactarize an entire movement, such as the threating and forceful expulsion of palestinians, there must be multiple points and proofs to come about. if at dier yassin 1000 refugees (im not sure of the figures) had been wrongly handled what about the 471,000 other refugees? one isolated case should not ruin the reality of the whole. |
"The precise number of victims of the massacre is unknown. The International Committee of the Red Cross counted 2,750. Israeli figures, based on IDF intelligence, cite a figure of 700-800, a similar figure being brought by the Lebanese authorities and most Western sources, and occasional reports go from as little as 300 to as much as 3,000."
I was wondering why Ariel Sharon was never tried for these crimes against humanity. 
The things that you people say about what happened to the Arabs. This is DISGRACEFUL. You people have nothing to be fucking proud about. And to you Melech Mike and your wonderful IDF that you are so proud of ....
READ.
"Near a south Lebanese village occupied by Israeli troops, Lieutenant Daniel Pinto, the acting commander of an Israeli infantry company, strangled four Lebanese peasants whose bodies, tied hand and foot, wre later found in a well. Another Israeli officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Arye Sadeh, ordered the execution of one of his battalions prisoners during the first days of the advance into Lebanon. Pinto was court-martialled for his atrocity but the Israeli chief of staff, General Rafael Eitan, reduced the sentence to two years and then ordered Pintos release. Sadeh received two and a half years imprisonment and reduction in rank to major, a sentence that was later raised by an appeals court to five years and reduction to private. Eitan restored the original sentence. His specific orders to the Israeli army in 'Operation Litani' were 'to annihilate the terrorists and their infrastructure"
From page 132 of Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. A book which anyone who wants to know about the middle east would find edifying reading. The author has been witness to a lot of atrocities of which Israel has committed MORE than its fair share.
In 1948-1949 the Jews deliberately decided to ethnically cleanse the Arabs. NO IFS NO BUTS NO FUCKING MAYBES.
You want proof Rabin specifically talks about it in his biography. He was an army commander who ethnically cleansed the town of Lydda (or it could be Ramle)
For original source material, Righteous Victims by Benny Morris provides quote, after quote, after quote, after quote from Jewish leaders during the wars saying EXACTLY what their intentions are.
You people cant hide what you did any more than the Turks can hide what they did to the Armenians.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cyrus, AZ, Nalin, Ahamalek, Tranceaholic
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| Originally posted by ZinG go back to school dude |
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| Originally posted by ZinG That's called Zionist brainwash interpretation now go back to school |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike Israel was proclaimed a country on May 14th, 1948 you stupid fuck!!! WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU COME FROM? Does anyone else have a problem with this bullshit? Hahaha, you kill me bud.... how the fuck did you get to religion from all that we've posted? Your're a fuckin weirdo  |
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| Originally posted by occrider Certainly not to account for the other 471,000 refugees. I'm a firm believer that many simply evacuated to clear the way for an Arab invasion. But you can't discount that the spread of word of mouth about the incident served to frighten and confirm the premature beliefs of the existing population that they needed to escape to save their lives. |
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| Originally posted by rupert The things that you people say about what happened to the Arabs. This is DISGRACEFUL. You people have nothing to be fucking proud about. And to you Melech Mike and your wonderful IDF that you are so proud of .... READ. "Near a south Lebanese village occupied by Israeli troops, Lieutenant Daniel Pinto, the acting commander of an Israeli infantry company, strangled four Lebanese peasants whose bodies, tied hand and foot, wre later found in a well. Another Israeli officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Arye Sadeh, ordered the execution of one of his battalions prisoners during the first days of the advance into Lebanon. Pinto was court-martialled for his atrocity but the Israeli chief of staff, General Rafael Eitan, reduced the sentence to two years and then ordered Pintos release. Sadeh received two and a half years imprisonment and reduction in rank to major, a sentence that was later raised by an appeals court to five years and reduction to private. Eitan restored the original sentence. His specific orders to the Israeli army in 'Operation Litani' were 'to annihilate the terrorists and their infrastructure". From page 132 of Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. A book which anyone who wants to know about the middle east would find edifying reading. The author has been witness to a lot of atrocities of which Israel has committed MORE than its fair share. |
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In 1948-1949 the Jews deliberately decided to ethnically cleanse the Arabs. NO IFS NO BUTS NO FUCKING MAYBES. |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike Lastly, and definitely most importantly, you came to compare me to an Arab suicide bomber... words can't even express what would happen to you if you ever gathered the balls to say this to my face. That was the most ignorant, rude, inappropriate comment ever made upon me. I can't explain to you how mindless that was! |
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| Originally posted by rupert In 1948-1949 the Jews deliberately decided to ethnically cleanse the Arabs. NO IFS NO BUTS NO FUCKING MAYBES. |
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| Originally posted by oDrori Yet that was exactly what you said to me when you first found out I'm a leftist ... Hopefully your oppinions have changed since? |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike Could you ever forgive me. Although i'm still very disturbed by your dicision of taking the leftist stance. The leftist stance is what get's us killed! |
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| Originally posted by oDrori No, no, you are again confusing between myself and my suicide-bomber colleagues... |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike NO i'm not!!! i understand your position. I dont agree with it. I feel that its this position of being soft that gets us killed in the greatest numbers! |
missed this, a thread in my honour, thanks shlomo, i mean baron, i mean mike
to answer you're questions as best and honestly as I can
If Israel is "occupying" territories today, who was occupying them until 1967?
the palestinians, you can call them arabs, but all it shows is your ignorance and contempt for them. They have been known as the palestinians for a lot longer than people were known as israeli's
If the West Bank and Gaza belong to "Palestinians", why were they under the control of Jordan and Egypt until June 5, 1967?
it's a sorry fact that the palestinians are not the most fortunate group, and have never been well liked within the arab nations, which is strange seeing as the rest of the middle east would like nothing more than a creation of palestine...how things change.....
If Arab "Palestinians" just want their own state, why didn't they ask for it before 1967?
Who says they didn't? I hardly think you're clued up on the finer points of palestinian history
Why is it, according to many articles written in 1967, that when the Arabs talked about "occupied territories", they meant all of Israel?
I'm guessing they didn't like the jews being there
it's a sad fact that throughout the ages, the jewish people have not been the most popular (bit like the palestinians eh?)
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| Originally posted by rupert The things that you people say about what happened to the Arabs. This is DISGRACEFUL. You people have nothing to be fucking proud about. And to you Melech Mike and your wonderful IDF that you are so proud of .... READ. "Near a south Lebanese village occupied by Israeli troops, Lieutenant Daniel Pinto, the acting commander of an Israeli infantry company, strangled four Lebanese peasants whose bodies, tied hand and foot, wre later found in a well. Another Israeli officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Arye Sadeh, ordered the execution of one of his battalions prisoners during the first days of the advance into Lebanon. Pinto was court-martialled for his atrocity but the Israeli chief of staff, General Rafael Eitan, reduced the sentence to two years and then ordered Pintos release. Sadeh received two and a half years imprisonment and reduction in rank to major, a sentence that was later raised by an appeals court to five years and reduction to private. Eitan restored the original sentence. His specific orders to the Israeli army in 'Operation Litani' were 'to annihilate the terrorists and their infrastructure" From page 132 of Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. A book which anyone who wants to know about the middle east would find edifying reading. The author has been witness to a lot of atrocities of which Israel has committed MORE than its fair share. In 1948-1949 the Jews deliberately decided to ethnically cleanse the Arabs. NO IFS NO BUTS NO FUCKING MAYBES. You want proof Rabin specifically talks about it in his biography. He was an army commander who ethnically cleansed the town of Lydda (or it could be Ramle) For original source material, Righteous Victims by Benny Morris provides quote, after quote, after quote, after quote from Jewish leaders during the wars saying EXACTLY what their intentions are. You people cant hide what you did any more than the Turks can hide what they did to the Armenians. |
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| Well, in 48-49, 67, 73, and yet in avrious other historic opportunities, the Muslims and otehr nice folks tried to ethnically cleanse the Jews didn't they? Add your but's, maybe's and if's below please. |
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| Originally posted by Az If Israel is "occupying" territories today, who was occupying them until 1967? the palestinians, you can call them arabs, but all it shows is your ignorance and contempt for them. They have been known as the palestinians for a lot longer than people were known as israeli's |
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| Originally posted by Az If the West Bank and Gaza belong to "Palestinians", why were they under the control of Jordan and Egypt until June 5, 1967? it's a sorry fact that the palestinians are not the most fortunate group, and have never been well liked within the arab nations, which is strange seeing as the rest of the middle east would like nothing more than a creation of palestine...how things change..... |
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| Originally posted by Az If Arab "Palestinians" just want their own state, why didn't they ask for it before 1967? Who says they didn't? I hardly think you're clued up on the finer points of palestinian history |
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| Originally posted by Az from odori Stick to the topic please dude, just because somemuslims and "nice folks" tried to do it to the jews, it doesn't give them the right to ethnically cleanse anyone!, you're trying to justify genocide! |
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| Originally posted by Az I find it ironic that for a race that has been persecuted thoughout history by right wing extremists, that the majority of israel voted for a right wing extremist with a history of persecuting the palestinians, but maybe thats just the kefia wearing anti semite in me |
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| Originally posted by oDrori For the record, many Europeans tend to write my nicname odori instead of odrori ... I would much prefer you not to have that typo in it, guess it's your Net-Accent |
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Now for the part that matters: I do not justify genocide, that post was just a turn around of another statement, I hope you have read it, as your own statement could be said for both sides : Just because some Israelis tried to ethnically cleanse the Palastinians, doesn't mean that all of them did and certainly doesn't give them the right to try do the same to the Israelis, now, does it? |
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Also, it bothers me to see that you insist on calling Melech Mike in names of other users ... Would you like me to call you Johnsmith (no offense to Johnsmith) just because you share similar opinions (Which is not surprising for Melech Mike and Shlomo)? |
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Such a shame indeed |
ok sorry if this is a bit off topic in the next pages. I'm on page 3 right now going through the thread and I thought it fair to point a critisim to the following point;
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| Originally posted by oDrori The 1920, 1921 and 1929 revolts were all arranged by Arab religous leaders and were solely based on hatred towards the Jews (Notice that these days it more anti-Zionism) and on the religous differences(!). Cities where Jews and Muslims leaved peacefully for centuries such as the now infamous city of Hebron were torn apart as hundreads of furious mobs murdered families of Jews in these revolts. They say terror is no way to achieve your goals these days... Some say it wasn't a way in those days either - Well then, how comes each of those revolts led to an official reduction of permitted Jew imigration licenses per-year on the British side? |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus ok sorry if this is a bit off topic in the next pages. I'm on page 3 right now going through the thread and I thought it fair to point a critisim to the following point; Although the British justified their reductioin of Jewish immigration due to Balfour (as Jews made less jobs for Arabs the claim badly went)- there was not attempt to close off illegal Arab migration, which was the primary cause for the growing Arab population in the mandate of Palestine - a growth rate of 120% as Izzy pointed out in a time span of 20 or so years is not natrual growth, yet primarly immigration. Infact when one analyizes why such immigration did take place ones sees the prime reason was usually due to the new economic opprotunities created by the many new advanced european settlers to the area - the Jews. |
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| Originally posted by Az I caught mike out in the tranceairwaves room, under his DJ Baron guise (would never have known it was him if it wasn't for random and unprovoked denials on the hub). When I entered the room, I said "hey mike" and he said hey back. Then went off on one about why Shlomo_Hamalech and Melech_Mike are not the same person, and eventually started talking as each of them in the 3rd person. I couldn't care less about the IP addresses being from different ISPs, he seems to protest the fact a little too much, as if he knows they're different because he makes sure they are. Not hard to do anyway, I post from 3 different IP's..... |
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| Originally posted by Izzy i agree with what you said. for me, any news about war in general would be enough to make me leave my home in search of safety. TheDemon: why are you here? have you got anything other then insults to add to this place? |
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| Originally posted by Az missed this, a thread in my honour, thanks shlomo, i mean baron, i mean mike to answer you're questions as best and honestly as I can If Israel is "occupying" territories today, who was occupying them until 1967? the palestinians, you can call them arabs, but all it shows is your ignorance and contempt for them. They have been known as the palestinians for a lot longer than people were known as israeli's If the West Bank and Gaza belong to "Palestinians", why were they under the control of Jordan and Egypt until June 5, 1967? it's a sorry fact that the palestinians are not the most fortunate group, and have never been well liked within the arab nations, which is strange seeing as the rest of the middle east would like nothing more than a creation of palestine...how things change..... If Arab "Palestinians" just want their own state, why didn't they ask for it before 1967? Who says they didn't? I hardly think you're clued up on the finer points of palestinian history Why is it, according to many articles written in 1967, that when the Arabs talked about "occupied territories", they meant all of Israel? I'm guessing they didn't like the jews being there it's a sad fact that throughout the ages, the jewish people have not been the most popular (bit like the palestinians eh?) top notch post from odori Stick to the topic please dude, just because somemuslims and "nice folks" tried to do it to the jews, it doesn't give them the right to ethnically cleanse anyone!, you're trying to justify genocide! now I do find this interesting that my name was in the top of this topic, I'd like to know why mike? it's not the israeli people I have a problem with Mike, it's right wing extremism. And I find it ironic that for a race that has been persecuted thoughout history by right wing extremists, that the majority of israel voted for a right wing extremist with a history of persecuting the palestinians, but maybe thats just the kefia wearing anti semite in me do fuck off mike, you're a fool |
, please post your answers.
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