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-- Is It Just Me Or...
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quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike PS 2 every TA - I'm not racist!!!!! I just dislike stupid, ignorant people!! You could take that to the bank!

anyone can easily say they arent a racist but proove to me that your not.. and stop spreading arab hate propoganda


also istead of calling people idiots and morons try to rebuttle in a more civilized way.. haha you complain about the iraqis being uncivilized and wanting for them to change their flag.. you are acting like a primate with your rebutles.. cant you at least control your temper.. its not like the letters on the screen are going to come out and hit you


have some decency and respect for all PEOPLE

and watch your mouth when it comes to generalizing.. because it gets racial very easily and i from what i read from your posts that appears to be your intention

For whatever reason you choose, I respect your wishes not to participate in Mike's debates ... But how can you expect him to not open with bias? He has to show his stand, would you like him to contradict his own saying? I would not expect anyone in here to start a debate completely neautral since we have our opinions and this is where we show them.

About racism, I'll have to disagree about banning someone if he is presenting racist points while obeying manner-codes ... Just as in real life, you should not be punished for being racist unless you act on it. If someone presents points as to why all ... Latin speaking countries are less intelligent/ are parasites/ can't run their own affairs I will let him be. Once he starts flaming is where I would draw the line.

If his racism is offensive to others than I think that they should be banned. But like I said before if they articulate their views in an intelligent manner I don't think they should be banned. I don't think the goal is to eliminate perspectives, I think the goal should be to eliminate disruptions.

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori About racism, I'll have to disagree about banning someone if he is presenting racist points while obeying manner-codes ... Just as in real life, you should not be punished for being racist unless you act on it. If someone presents points as to why all ... Latin speaking countries are less intelligent/ are parasites/ can't run their own affairs I will let him be. Once he starts flaming is where I would draw the line.

Where do I start with this... you are so wrong, your words caution what has put some guy named Adolf Hitler in power not so long ago.

Wow!

Have a nice day!

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek Where do I start with this... you are so wrong, your words caution what has put some guy named Adolf Hitler in power not so long ago. Wow! Have a nice day!

Agreed!

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek Where do I start with this... you are so wrong, your words caution what has put some guy named Adolf Hitler in power not so long ago. Wow! Have a nice day!

Heir Hitler didn't make it to the top himself, he had support.

If someone would post racist points in here he would quickly be faced with and someone would probably prove him wrong... If not, then our ignorance alone, IMO means that we do not care enough for someone to read his post and get convinced... Hence we deserve it.

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Heir Hitler didn't make it to the top himself, he had support. If someone would post racist points in here he would quickly be faced with and someone would probably prove him wrong... If not, then our ignorance alone, IMO means that we do not care enough for someone to read his post and get convinced... Hence we deserve it.

racism doesnt need to BE PROVEN wrong

it is wrong in the first place odori.. i understand where you comming from saying that everyone has their own opinion about things

but people are individuals.. racism is a general remark made towards a race based on a stereotype

eg all arabs are terrorists, all jews are cheap etc etc.. THOSE are racist remarks and are intolerable so YES someone should be banned for making racist comments


and im surprised that you are agreeing with this melech because you're the reason why i am mentioning racism in the first place.. could it be that you've turned over a new leaf?

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit and im surprised that you are agreeing with this melech because you're the reason why i am mentioning racism in the first place.. could it be that you've turned over a new leaf?

This is the same leaf i've always been! whatever thats suppoed to mean.

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike This is the same leaf i've always been! whatever thats suppoed to mean.

its suppose to mean that youve change your idealist attitude towards these issues.. posting one sided propoganda mainly

arabs arent that bad.. I still love you for who you are haha

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Heir Hitler didn't make it to the top himself, he had support. If someone would post racist points in here he would quickly be faced with and someone would probably prove him wrong... If not, then our ignorance alone, IMO means that we do not care enough for someone to read his post and get convinced... Hence we deserve it.

I agree. If we are so impotent that we cannot allow someone to voice their opinion merely because we strongly disagree, then we ought to ask ourselves why. It is the manner in which those opinions are expressed that ought to be the sole and exclusive domain of the moderators.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter I agree. If we are so impotent that we cannot allow someone to voice their opinion merely because we strongly disagree, then we ought to ask ourselves why. It is the manner in which those opinions are expressed that ought to be the sole and exclusive domain of the moderators.

dude cut the crap, racist comments aren't welcome over here. It isn't subject to debate.

when there's something even close to a racist comment toward jews, everyone says "anti-semite".

When it concerns others (arabs in this case), its subject to debate. Bravo!

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek dude cut the crap, racist comments aren't welcome over here. It isn't subject to debate. when there's something even close to a racist comment toward jews, everyone says "anti-semite". When it concerns others (arabs in this case), its subject to debate. Bravo!

Your argument right here proves that racism should not be a platform for banning people. I can say right now, that with the argument that you give you are being racist (I don't think so but go with me for a second). You're saying that when somebody says something that is NOT racist towards jews but could be misconstrued as being racist then "everyone" on this forum jumps to the conlcusion that that statement is anti-semetic. But when somebody says the same thing except for it being about Arabs then it is NOT considered racism on these forums. Aren't you "generalizing" and being "racist" right there? By going through your words EXACTLY you're essentially saying that these forums are pro-Israeli and anti-Arab. That's why I think that racism is NOT a good factor in banning people since it's SO subjective. Unless it's BLATANTLY obvious to everybody, the racism card is subject to bias and partiality and is not a good factor in determining whether a person has a right to post here or not.

well I was sarcastic for one.

But even if I wasn't, my comments are generalizations, but do not in any case even come close to being racist. I'm surprised there by your remarks. And even if this board is anti-arab and pro-jewish or vice-ver�a where do you see racism? If let say more members favor the Jewish cause than the Arabic one, well its only proportions, and you can conclude that a side is bigger than the other.

but when the same persons post the same kind of info (i.e. propaganda) over and over to incite hatred toward a race, those you can call racist and yes should be banned (after many warnings mind you!).

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek It isn't subject to debate.

In other words, you declare victory.

Learn to argue, then come back. What's not welcome here is your attitude.

I do not declare victory, those are the rules on this forum. If you don't like them, well there's plenty of other forums you can go to.

Have a nice day,

Malek

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek well I was sarcastic for one. But even if I wasn't, my comments are generalizations, but do not in any case even come close to being racist. I'm surprised there by your remarks. And even if this board is anti-arab and pro-jewish or vice-ver�a where do you see racism? If let say more members favor the Jewish cause than the Arabic one, well its only proportions, and you can conclude that a side is bigger than the other. but when the same persons post the same kind of info (i.e. propaganda) over and over to incite hatred toward a race, those you can call racist and yes should be banned (after many warnings mind you!).

Ahlamalek, I wasn't actually SAYING that you were racist in any way whatsover!!! I was speaking hypothetically. Read what I wrote in my parentheis hehe. I'm saying that arguments can be easily MISCONSTRUED as being racist when that is not the csae. Did I not come to a valid conclusion that your remarks were racist based upon what you wrote ALONE without taking anything else into consideration? I'm merely trying to describe the difficulties in pinpointing what "racism" is and why it's a poor factor in coming to the determination that somebody should be banned.

There have been a lot of people that have said something offensive about America and generalizing about the american people as a whole that I would consider racist but I don' think that's a good reason to ban them. It's their perogative to express their views ... as long as it's done in a civilized manner.

well if you go back to page 4 to this post by oDrori and read all the posts made up to my comments, you will understand how what I wrote fit.

quote:

For whatever reason you choose, I respect your wishes not to participate in Mike's debates ... But how can you expect him to not open with bias? He has to show his stand, would you like him to contradict his own saying? I would not expect anyone in here to start a debate completely neautral since we have our opinions and this is where we show them. About racism, I'll have to disagree about banning someone if he is presenting racist points while obeying manner-codes ... Just as in real life, you should not be punished for being racist unless you act on it. If someone presents points as to why all ... Latin speaking countries are less intelligent/ are parasites/ can't run their own affairs I will let him be. Once he starts flaming is where I would draw the line.

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek well if you go back to page 4 to this post by oDrori and read all the posts made up to my comments, you will understand how what I wrote fit.

Hehe are you directing your statment to me? Can't tell ... At any rate don't get me wrong ... I hate racism as much as any other person. I just believe that somebody who supports the kkk has as right to voice their own opinion in this country as somebody who supports ghandi.

accorded, I will not judge your values (that I don't share btw). But let say if that same person who voices his racist comments start getting flammed all the time and his threads are just filled with hatred by him/them and by the opposing side. Is this what you wannt to see on this board? If I were a mod, I would ban him/them.

We need intelligent debate, not people who can flame better than the others.

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek I do not declare victory, those are the rules on this forum. If you don't like them, well there's plenty of other forums you can go to.

This forum provides a location for member of tranceaddict.com to discuss intellectual issues related to politics and/or philosophy. It would be contradictory to the function of this forum to preclude individuals from voicing opinions merely because you or others disagree with them.

If that is a rule on this forum, and I have not been told by any reliable source that it is, then it is a rule which by ought to be changed. I could go to another forum, but personally I prefer solving problems to running away from them. Obviously, you do not, because if you did then you would rather debate the racist and show him why he is wrong than hide from his opinions by refusing to allow him to express them at all.

everyone who signed to this forum accepted:

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

I agree with you that this forum should be a great place to discuss political and philosophical questions.

What I don't agree upon, is answering to blatant and evident racialy biased messages that will in turn fuel hatred and a discussion that has no meanings.

I don't believe that you can convert someone away from racism over the internet, and if *you* can, well my hat to you.

Personnaly, I chose not to try with these people because it is bound to fail. If that person was in front of me in flesh and bones then that's another story, I would do my best to prove him wrong.

The best method so far in my experience, is to completly ignore users that start racialy charged threads that will fuel hatred. The more attention you give to them, the more he will post such stupidities.

If everyone ignores that person, he will think twice about posting such shit in the future, because no one fueled his sensless debates.

Again, this is MY position with the experience I have on the various forums and I stand firmly by it.

I believe that the people that started this forum and myself think alike about this subject and thats why hatred comments are not welcome here.

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek actually no! That is a very biased question! if you look into your history book, people living in palestine (palestinians) never get colonialists off their back, before israel who? British! and before? Turks for centuries and before others... etc etc and even all these empires recognized that palestinians are distinct from the others thus having their own province called you guessed it, Palestine. This started with the Romans and onward. so when someone claims that they never asked for a country it's like implying that these guys never existed, or just living there like some tribes do in amazonia not knowing that others exist around them, which is completly false and disrespectful because palestinians have a history like other people. And sadly, they always been under the rule of some empire. That's what attracts furious and pointless debates to his threads. He chose to ignore historical facts. He always implies that before Israel, nothingness prevailed and thats why I chose not participate.

It depends on who wrote the history book.
If Ariel Sharon wrote a history book, it would be very different from one that Saeb Arakat (SP>?) would write.

Ahlamalek, let's settle on this:

If a racist is signed on the forums, and opens a thread discussing why X is a lesser race/state etc. etc. , he gives reasons and avoids swearing. Many users show why in their opinions as to why he is wrong and agian, no one gets furious and no flaming or stupid posts. Great thread so far IMO. Anyway, the thread kinda dies, but after a week or so the racist poster opens a new thread showing no new evidence to support his argument, or revives his thread for no apparent reason to gain any support or opposition, he will deserve having the thread closed and getting a warning (As I've said, I believe a few warnings ought to be worth a suspension). In cases where the new thread seems to fit the old one (guaranteed that the old one hasn't been innactive for too long), the Mod should merge the threads and notify the poster of that. Most of Mike's posts present new evidence or new aspects to look at why he thinks certain organizations or communities (Which are all of an Arab origin but don't necassarily represent the Arab race) should be stopped/ are anti-semite etc.
Some of them,I admit, should have recieved the Merge drill, another reason for opening this thread I guess

BTW, isn't banning someone from this forum an act of hate towards racists?

In any way, I find it quite debatable to decide whether a post detailing reasons for hate should be considered of hateful nature, just like a slogen of hate for example.

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori BTW, isn't banning someone from this forum an act of hate towards racists?

There is no excuse for racism.. it should not be permitted. i say one warning.. for a racist comment.. then after that banning

who wants to argue with a racist.. obviously their views are flawd and they'll just be spreading propoganda towards their cause

no one likes a racist since they havent a clue what they are talkign about

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit There is no excuse for racism.. it should not be permitted. i say one warning.. for a racist comment.. then after that banning

A racist comment ("Yes, because we know Jews are really contributing to the US" , but not "Yes, because we know Israel is really contributing to the US") - deserves a ban.
Backing up racist claims (It's a historical fact that X have never really developed beyond the use of wooden tools) - Does not deserve a ban.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit who wants to argue with a racist.. obviously their views are flawd and they'll just be spreading propoganda towards their cause

-Who wants to argue with a racist?
We'll see once we've hosted one in our little home, if no one wants to argue with him his comments will be ignored and his threads will quickly die

-OBVIOUSLY their views are flawd
Says who? What's so obvious?

-They'll just be spreading propaganda towards their cause
Isn't that what we all do? As long as they don't post anythink false or misleading, there's no harm in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit no one likes a racist since they havent a clue what they are talkign about

Or maybe it's US that have no idea... Can't you see that the way you are treating them is just as bad as they would want to treat "Lesser" groups?

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