TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- The same hate?
Pages (3): « 1 2 [3]

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Yes they are really defending themselves when they blow up busses full of school children . Gimme a break if you wanna defend yourself at least target military or political institutions. And the difference is that Israel TARGETS military or political institutions its methods leave a LOT to be desired however, that's not the point. Terrorism targets innocent civilians. There is a huge distinction.

so the isreali armny killing civilians in palestine is good act i figure???? demolishing towns in palestine is a good thing too?


why would anyone in their right mind go up to a guy with a gun and/or in a tank and try to blow themselves up???? How would you make a statment by getting youself killed before you kill some enimes



The point i was trying to make was:

Isreal has an ARMY, NUKES and the SUPPORT OF THE US

Palestine has its "terriorists", they have no army to fight for them!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King In fact, there was a resistance movement against the Chinese government in Tibet. Therefore, Yoepus was incorrect in his assessment that suffereing does not necessarily cause a reaction of violence. http://www.tibetnews.com/bulletin/99Issue1/page23.html

your own source says this:

"They [tibet] never managed to establish a proper resistance army inside Tibet"

So ok, you have a few hundred people running around with guns in the mountains - people do that everywhere, even when their countries aren't under suffering.

Furthermore the orginal Tibetian resistances movments were not resistant movements to invasion, not occupation. During occupation no real resistance movement grew there.

As a last point, even assuming you were correct and lets say the Tibetians used suicide bombers, this one case does not dis-validate my point. Yes suffering sometimes cause violence, and many times it re-inforces and encourages. But that would not contradict from the many time that suffering does not lead to violence.

quote:

Originally posted by Taub The point i was trying to make was: Isreal has an ARMY, NUKES and the SUPPORT OF THE US Palestine has its "terriorists", they have no army to fight for them!!!!!!!!!!!

Well its a bad point; as the truth reads like this.

Israel has an army, nukes, and the support of the US

Palestinians have terrorists, a police force, propoganda, military rule, and the SUPPORT OF THE ENTIRE MID-EAST, ALL MUSLIMS ACROSS THE WORLD, AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES ACROSS THE WORLD

Furthermore if we look at history;

Israel barely had an army, no nukes, and no US support
At this same time the;
Palestinians had large armies, terrorists, and Soviet and Arab Support

So what is your point? Just because the Palestinian army is gone and they have no nukes they have to be evil SOBs? What sense does this make?

In WWII the Jews had no army, no support, no terrorist, no nukes
The germans had, a large army, the support of many nations across Europe and the Middle East, no terrorist, and many gas chambers.

The Jews could have had terrorist then.. but they didn't.... hmm

quote:

Originally posted by Taub so the isreali armny killing civilians in palestine is good act i figure???? demolishing towns in palestine is a good thing too? why would anyone in their right mind go up to a guy with a gun and try to blow themselves up???? How would you make a statment by getting youself killed before you kill some enimes The point i was trying to make was: Isreal has an ARMY, NUKES and the SUPPORT OF THE US Palestine has its "terriorists", they have no army to fight for them!!!!!!!!!!!

Does Israel go into Palestinian territories with the goal to kill civilians??? Does it say on their agenda to demolish 5 towns in retribution for Paliestian attacks???

If I kick your ass does that mean that you have a right to come up to my 12 year old brother or my 50 year old mother and beat them down just because they are "weaker"??? Your fight is with ME not them. I respect the lack of involvement of your family in OUR matters therefore you respect the lack of involvemnt of my family. It's pathetic ... the palestinan suicide bombers thrive on their ability to inflict civilian casualties on the Israelis and yet they claim IMMUNITY to responsive actions that result in the ACCIDENTAL deaths of Palestinian civilians. THERE ARE NO JUSTIFICATIONS FOR TERRORISM!

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Yes they are really defending themselves when they blow up busses full of school children . Gimme a break if you wanna defend yourself at least target military or political institutions.

You speak as if every terrorist attack is on civilians. Are you forgetting the many times, military outposts and targets were attacked? And yes, i beleive that in their eyes, they are defending themselves... they have nothing to loose... and coupled with corrupt leaders like Hamas, who brainwash these people with religious fanatacism, you are thus bearing terrorist activity. Remember, these people are born in occupation... they are raised oppresed and poor working as slave labour in Israel, a nation that is continuously occupying more and more land. Wouldnt you be mad if you were in the shoes of a palestinian? Wouldnt you feel like getting revenge on that nation? I know if i were in those shoes, i certainly wouldnt look at Israel as a "moral" place.

quote:

And the difference is that Israel TARGETS military or political institutions its methods leave a LOT to be desired however, that's not the point. Terrorism targets innocent civilians. There is a huge distinction.

Innocent people have been shot throwing rocks. The Israeli military sees everything as a TARGET.

I have seen Israeli guards with writings like "BORN TO KILL" on their helmuts, what does that tell you.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You speak as if every terrorist attack is on civilians. Are you forgetting the many times, military outposts and targets were attacked? And yes, i beleive that in their eyes, they are defending themselves... they have nothing to loose... and coupled with corrupt leaders like Hamas, who brainwash these people with religious fanatacism, you are thus bearing terrorist activity. Remember, these people are born in occupation... they are raised oppresed and poor working as slave labour in Israel, a nation that is continuously occupying more and more land. Wouldnt you be mad if you were in the shoes of a palestinian? Wouldnt you feel like getting revenge on that nation? I know if i were in those shoes, i certainly wouldnt look at Israel as a "moral" place. Innocent people have been shot throwing rocks. The Israeli military sees everything as a TARGET. I have seen Israeli guards with writings like "BORN TO KILL" on their helmuts, what does that tell you.

Cyrus, I'm not condemning the people who are brought up to hate and are brainwashed into thinking this way. I'm critisizing the education system where these people are instructed that the ONLY option available to them to achieve change is through violence. And not only mere violence but violence against innocent civlians. And I hate Israelis that are ultra extremists that like to kill innocnet civilians. I would condemn them as much as I would condemn terrorists. But what I'm trying to get at is that that type of behaviour is discouraged by the Israeli army whereas among the Palestinians it seems that suicide bombongs is encouraged.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider

quote:

I'm critisizing the education system where these people are instructed that the ONLY option available to them to achieve change is through violence.

Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians...the land that belonged to you is taken away and given to some people after wwII. The land does not belong to the Jews...it belongs to the palestinians. How would you feel if the half the house you were living in was giving to soemone you hate? wonderful right?

There would be and end to the palestinian terriorsts if Isreal just leave their land and stop trying to gain more land and bulding settlements. How is that right? Israel just keep on taking land whenever they feel like. Do you see palestinian tanks or army in ISrael? no!! only thing you can say is that they have terriorists.

Since Israel withdrew from the Sinai On 25 April 1982 iseral has had no problem with egypt.

Since isreal withdrew from parts of jordan on 26 October 1994, isreal has no problem with jordan

Since isreal withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, israel has no problem with lebanon.

Now isreal jsut needs to withdraw from West Bank and Gaza Strip so they will no longer have any problems with Syria and Palestine.

Israel is achieving change through violence, so why shouldnt the palestininas do the same? Should the just sit back and say "take my land and destroy my home"

quote:

And I hate Israelis that are ultra extremists that like to kill innocnet civilians.

those Israelis that are ultra extremists = Isreali Army. who else from israel is killing palestinians?

quote:

But what I'm trying to get at is that that type of behaviour is discouraged by the Israeli army whereas among the Palestinians it seems that suicide bombongs is encouraged.

what other ways could they voice thier anger against what isreal is doing? If israel didnt have an army i am sure there would be Israeli terriorists

quote:

Originally posted by Taub Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians...the land that belonged to you is taken away and given to some people after wwII. The land does not belong to the Jews...it belongs to the palestinians. How would you feel if the half the house you were living in was giving to soemone you hate? wonderful right? There would be and end to the palestinian terriorsts if Isreal just leave their land and stop trying to gain more land and bulding settlements. How is that right? Israel just keep on taking land whenever they feel like. Do you see palestinian tanks or army in ISrael? no!! only thing you can say is that they have terriorists. Since Israel withdrew from the Sinai On 25 April 1982 iseral has had no problem with egypt. Since isreal withdrew from parts of jordan on 26 October 1994, isreal has no problem with jordan Since isreal withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, israel has no problem with lebanon. Now isreal jsut needs to withdraw from West Bank and Gaza Strip so they will no longer have any problems with Syria and Palestine.

Are you certain? I'm critical of the extremist Palestinian movement because much of it isn't dependant on removing Israel from the occupied territories, it's dependant on removing ALL of Israel from the middle east. I think that there is a certain upbringing of racial intolerance that is pervasive among the west bank and the gaza strip. How long would an Israeli survive if he was living peacefully in the west bank? Yes we can see examples of Israelis who are just as extreme however, their social upbringing isn't centered around cultivating this sense of hatred and violence. I do think that Israel should abandon the west bank and the gaza strip however, I feel that that attacks will continue despite the concession.

quote:

Israel is achieving change through violence, so why shouldnt the palestininas do the same? Should the just sit back and say "take my land and destroy my home" those Israelis that are ultra extremists = Isreali Army. who else from israel is killing palestinians? what other ways could they voice thier anger against what isreal is doing? If israel didnt have an army i am sure there would be Israeli terriorists

So everybody in the IDF is an ultra extremist? Doesn't that mean every Israeli is an ultra extremist because there is compulsory military service? Would Israel still use violence if all the Palestinian bombings were to halt? If they did that would bring about world outrage at unprovoked attacks. There are plenty of other ways Palestinians can voice their anger and disapproval. The Palestinians cannot win with their terrorist attacks. The attacks do not really harm Israel, and they merely generate sympathy for the Israelis when bombs go off in market places and public places. Then they are provided with some justification for conducting operations in occupied territories that result in civlian deaths.

They would stand to gain so much if they reverted to a completely peaceful movement and then the world would truly be outraged when they see palestinians protesting in a peaceful manner and being confronted with Israeli tanks.

quick reply as i got to be in class in 25 mins

quote:

Originally posted by Taub The land does not belong to the Jews

the majority of land given as israel by the partition plan by the UN after wwII was land sold by arabs to jews, no one stole any land. you can not complain and want land that you yourself sold up and gave up fairly.

quote:

Since Israel withdrew from the Sinai On 25 April 1982 iseral has had no problem with egypt.

1978 is the correct date (after camp david the first). israel gave back sinia, a land which was not theirs to begin with and so israel it was gained for military tatical reasons.

quote:

Since isreal withdrew from parts of jordan on 26 October 1994, isreal has no problem with jordan

jordan has had a good histroy in trying to end terrorism, both agianst israel and agianst its own country. such governments deserve to be awarded with true peace

quote:

Since isreal withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, israel has no problem with lebanon.

here you are completely wrong, even though israel withdrew from lebanon the hizbollah ROUTINELY fires mortars, shells, and bullets into israel proper (i dont have time to give you refernces, but TONS exsist)

quote:

Now isreal jsut needs to withdraw from West Bank and Gaza Strip so they will no longer have any problems with Syria and Palestine.

its not as easy as that, israel wants a guarantee that if they do there will be no terrorism agianst them or at least a full force trying to stop it. something that has not been proven yet to the people of israel.

quote:

Israel is achieving change through violence, so why shouldnt the palestininas do the same? Should the just sit back and say "take my land and destroy my home"

isreal has also achieved a great deal through peaceful negotiations.

quote:

If israel didnt have an army i am sure there would be Israeli terriorists

on what do you base this?

yea.... well, i know it won't be easy to solve the issue with Syria, over the Golan Heights... the Golan Heights is really important because it's a main source of water, and rich agricultural soil...
plus, it's also a military advantage....because of it's elevatation.

....anyway

quote:

Originally posted by Tranex02 yea.... well, i know it won't be easy to solve the issue with Syria, over the Golan Heights... the Golan Heights is really important because it's a main source of water, and rich agricultural soil... plus, it's also a military advantage....because of it's elevatation. ....anyway

ya i know, that one is going to be tricky and going to need a lot of creative diplomacy. its no secret that there have been many secret negotiations to settle a peace agreement with syria over the golan heights... all yeilded nothing. in general most israelis are willing to give up the majority of the Golan if not all of it, but the israelis would need security and water gaurantees. also something will have to be worked out for the very successful vinyards and cattle industry that the israelis have set up in the golan not to mention what should be done about the israeli's living there now (relocations funds and so forth). plus mt. hermon (the tallest mt in israel - golan) is a cool place to go skiing in the winter.... i really hope something can be worked out

quote:

Originally posted by Tranex02 yea.... well, i know it won't be easy to solve the issue with Syria, over the Golan Heights... the Golan Heights is really important because it's a main source of water, and rich agricultural soil... plus, it's also a military advantage....because of it's elevatation.

ya i know, that one is going to be tricky and going to need a lot of creative diplomacy. its no secret that there have been many secret negotiations to settle a peace agreement with syria over the golan heights... all yeilded nothing. in general most israelis are willing to give up the majority of the Golan if not all of it, but the israelis would need security and water gaurantees. also something will have to be worked out for the very successful vinyards and cattle industry that the israelis have set up in the golan not to mention what should be done about the israeli's living there now (relocations funds and so forth). plus mt. hermon (the tallest mt in israel - golan) is a cool place to go skiing in the winter.... i really hope something can be worked out

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy ya i know, that one is going to be tricky and going to need a lot of creative diplomacy. its no secret that there have been many secret negotiations to settle a peace agreement with syria over the golan heights... all yeilded nothing. in general most israelis are willing to give up the majority of the Golan if not all of it, but the israelis would need security and water gaurantees. also something will have to be worked out for the very successful vinyards and cattle industry that the israelis have set up in the golan not to mention what should be done about the israeli's living there now (relocations funds and so forth). plus mt. hermon (the tallest mt in israel - golan) is a cool place to go skiing in the winter.... i really hope something can be worked out

I hope so too!!!..... but to be honest with you... i'm not that optimistic.... atleast not now....
like you said

quote:

israelis would need security and water gaurantees. also something will have to be worked out for the very successful vinyards and cattle industry that the israelis have set up in the golan not to mention what should be done about the israeli's living there now

with all the things going on right now..... negotiations seem a little far-fetched.... it's really hard to tell what's gonna happen next....

about mt. hermon, it's got snow year round! i've seen it, but never been on it.... i've heard from ppl that it can get really windy!!!!

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.