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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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quote:

HERO OF 9/11 WON'T STOP SPEAKING OUT AGAINST BUSH Date : 02.12.06 One minute he was going about his business, the next he was looking at a vision from the depths of hell. Still reeling from a blast which rocked the World Trade Center, William Rodriguez could hardly believe what he was seeing."A man came running into the office shouting 'explosion, explosion!'" Mr Rodriguez soon saw a third of his body had been badly burnt by the blast. "When I realised, I started screaming. I looked at his face and it was missing parts." It was the start of a day that transformed Mr Rodriguez from a maintenance man to the hero of 9/11. He ran back into the crumbling tower three times, and helped save hundreds of people. In the months that followed, his role would change again, from the "face" of the rescue effort to an outspoken critic of the government. For Mr Rodriguez, a native of Puerto Rico, swears his ordeal began before the first plane hit the Twin Towers. He claims that the White House failed to act, and accuses the government of being involved in "sponsored terrorism" in a bid to find a motive to invade Iraq. He brought his argument to a Westcountry audience on Wednesday, when he spoke in Torquay as part of the Global Truth movement. Before America's trade epicentre was reduced to rubble, Mr Rodriguez routinely ate breakfast at the Windows of the World restaurant, on the top floor of the North Tower, where his friends would feed him free of charge. On 9/11, he was running late, so he skipped the treat. It was while he was in basements of the North Tower that Mr Rodriguez says he felt an explosion from below. "It was so hard that it shook the foundations of the building and the walls cracked," he said. "The ceiling fell on top of us." Mr Rodriguez, 45, had worked in the building for 20 years, and survived the 1993 bomb blast. As the sprinkler system came on, he was mentally transported back. It was only then that he claims he heard the sound of the first plane hitting the tower, at 8.46am. "It came from far away - all the way at the top of the building," he said. The handyman's thoughts immediately raced to the plight of his friends on the top floor, and he spent the rest of the ordeal battling his way through the building, trying to reach them. Mr Rodriguez, one of only five people to hold a master key which opened the doors to an escape route, repeatedly encountered people in need of help. He saved scores from the crumbling tower, including two who were stuck in a lift shaft that was filling with water from the sprinklers. "I could hear them shouting 'we're going to drown'," he said. "I was always an agnostic, but in that moment, I prayed." He suddenly remembered where ladders were stored, and found the longest one unlocked, so he was able to drop it down the shaft and escort two workers out to waiting ambulances. Mr Rodriguez dived back into the building to try to reach his friends, but again he encountered a casualty in need, this time on the 34th floor. "There was a blonde woman, lying on the floor shaking. I told her she had to get out, but she was new and she didn't know where to go." Mr Rodriguez helped her down the stairs, and ran back into the building on his third trip. This time, he played a role in helping a man in a wheelchair to the waiting ambulance crew. "It was like a scene from The Towering Inferno," he said. "Pieces of rock kept falling all over us and hitting us. I said to the man in the wheelchair 'when we get out we will go for a drink'. His face was just a dust mask." Mr Rodriguez was set to make a fourth trip up the stairs when he heard police outside ordering him not to look back. "Of course, when they tell you not to look back you always do," he said. "It was the worst memory I ever had." The blonde woman he had helped save lay dead, just outside the exit of the building, her body mangled by falling debris. "I looked around, and saw all the bodies of people who had jumped out of the windows, and they looked as if they had melted into the ground," he said. Mesmerised by the apocalyptic vision, Mr Rodriguez realised the ground was trembling. To cries of "run", he dived under a nearby fire engine as the huge building tumbled down. "I thought I was going to die from asphyxia," he said. "I thought 'God, please don't let my mother see my body cut in half'." But the media saw Mr Rodriguez dive, and soon rescue workers were hauling him free. Today, Mr Rodriguez is grateful to be alive, but he said: "I never found my friends. I saved hundreds of people, but the reason I do what I can to get the word out is that I lost 200 friends who have no way of claiming justice." In the aftermath, Mr Rodriguez was hailed a hero, and felt he was playing a big role in the 9/11 Commission. "I thought they were going to do the right thing," he said. But Mr Rodriguez soon felt his evidence was being covered up, when he became the only person to be interviewed behind closed doors. And his account was omitted from the final report. He claims evidence he collected from scores of other witnesses was overlooked. The final straw came when he was asked to give a public address on why Iraq should be invaded. "I said no - 9/11 was nothing to do with Iraq. I helped organise the families, and we voted against the President using us for his political motive. That's when the thrust changed, and the invasion suddenly became about weapons of mass destruction." These days, Mr Rodriguez fears for his life - and says his plight is relevant in the wake of the death of Alexander Litvinenko, the ex-KGB spy many believe was poisoned by the Russians. But Mr Rodriguez continues to speak out. Once a prominent magician, he said: "The 9/11 attacks are just an illusion. It never happened in the way they say. It's all manufactured to give the impression that it happened like that."

quote:

These days, Mr Rodriguez fears for his life - and says his plight is relevant in the wake of the death of Alexander Litvinenko, the ex-KGB spy many believe was poisoned by the Russians.

somebody gives themselves delusions of grandeur

No.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN somebody gives themselves delusions of grandeur

+1

Ah NO! lol.

pkcRAISTLIN nice post!

And U2 dude we're supposed to believe a handyman's
investigation over thousands of expert investigators
and the 911 commision? How bout no.

If you were a first hand eyewitness would you like to be discredited? I think not. Besides he's no ordinary handyman just like you would like to believe you're an extra-ordinary soldier.

Lest not forget we were sold the idea that the Hussein regime had weapons of mass destruction. Those facts came from the government filled with your so called investigators and experts. Now if you still believe those weapons are still around to be found then go ahead and plop down in Iraq and go find them.

Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter
African Proverb

US closes book on Iraq WMD hunt

Iraq WMD Hunt ' Has Been Exhausted ', Search For Saddam's Arsenal ...

CIA gives up search and interrogation on Iraq WMDs - Wikinews

CNN.com - U.S. study: Iraq likely didn't ship WMD to Syria - Apr ...

2900+ military dead
49000+ civilians dead
0 Weapons of mass destruction

I witnessed it with my very own eyes. And so did
thousands, just because one handyman with a limited
education swears something else must have been up
doesn't make him special and right. You find one story
about one guy who was there who thinks it's a US conspiracy
isn't proof in my eyes or sway me to that sideways point
of view.

As for WMDs we found Sarin rockets. Sarin
is still Sarin and a WMD. 8 YEARS he defied
UN Weapon Inspectors so his 'destruction' of
his WMDs were nvr verified. It's saddam's fault
for not complying not Bush and I'm a MARINE not
a soldier friend.

And it wasn't the only reason for war with Saddam's
regime so people need to stop hanging onto the WMD crap.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC I witnessed it with my very own eyes. And so did thousands, just because one handyman with a limited education swears something else must have been up doesn't make him special and right. You find one story about one guy who was there who thinks it's a US conspiracy isn't proof in my eyes or sway me to that sideways point of view. As for WMDs we found Sarin rockets. Sarin is still Sarin and a WMD. 8 YEARS he defied UN Weapon Inspectors so his 'destruction' of his WMDs were nvr verified. It's saddam's fault for not complying not Bush and I'm a MARINE not a soldier friend. And it wasn't the only reason for war with Saddam's regime so people need to stop hanging onto the WMD crap.

They brainwashed you good boy didn't them. Of course it doesn't matter if the commander in chief lied in order to invade another country, i mean those are just things that come with the job amirite? Of courses, old degraded Sarin is reason enough to invade a country and mess it up more than it already was. Of course, you're not supposed to think critically either, you have superiors that do that for you. Although i agree with your argument on the collapse of the towers, there is absolutely no logic to justify the invasion of Iraq, so please spare us your propaganda.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC I witnessed it with my very own eyes. And so did thousands, just because one handyman with a limited education swears something else must have been up doesn't make him special and right. You find one story about one guy who was there who thinks it's a US conspiracy isn't proof in my eyes or sway me to that sideways point of view. As for WMDs we found Sarin rockets. Sarin is still Sarin and a WMD. 8 YEARS he defied UN Weapon Inspectors so his 'destruction' of his WMDs were nvr verified. It's saddam's fault for not complying not Bush and I'm a MARINE not a soldier friend. And it wasn't the only reason for war with Saddam's regime so people need to stop hanging onto the WMD crap.

The only reason for that war is oil.
Bush killed more people than Sadam did when he had a power.

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller The only reason for that war is oil. Bush killed more people than Sadam did when he had a power.

lol right. Oil. Our prices have gone higher not lower.
And if he did that soley for oil, then he was kind enough
to do it for the whole world since oil prices are a constant
around the world. The U.S. didn't do it for cheap gas at the
pump

===========================================================

Iraq, hmmm. Bush lied? Well let's see, truth is the CIA
like the U.n., China, Russia, Britain, France, you name
it, all their intelligence services believed he had WMDs.
Bush didn't know for a fact that they 'didn't' and then
tell us he did know for a fact Iraq had WMDs. Everyone
believed Saddam did and after 8 years someone had to do
something. Better to not take the chance than go another
eight years writing stupid UN Resoultions over & over.

Also Iraq wasn't on the 'State Sponsors of Terrorism' List
for years (that's right before Bush ) for nothing.

Also do you believe he was a Saint? Mass graves are still
being discovered. People got to vote for Saddam Yes or No.
He even got 100% yes right before that war. Now the people
can vote and have their own elected government who are
accountable to the people. And Coalition Forces are trying
to stop Iraqi on Iraqi killing inflamed by Iranian and Syrian
support and fighters.

Sad the current state of affairs. Small group of Iraqi extremists
have decided to not tolerate people of other faiths especially
other muslims (Sunni/Shia) and resorted to violence. I expected
better of these people but Al Quaeda succedded inflaming sectarian
tensions with the massive bombing of the Shia mosque months ago.

The Prime Minister doesn't want to rein in and disarm illegal
militias because he would lose their political support... Sad
state of affairs. If they can't or won't put the effort into
cleaning the place up and taking more responsibility then we
should threaten to leave. Just to prod them to do MORE and take
the hard decisions neccesary to ensure a stable atmosphere. It's
on them to set things right and make a better life for themselves.

Anyway you may agree or disagree, no sense going back and forth.
The great thing about our free societies is we can discuss and
debate without fear of prosecution. There's plenty of examples
of people being locked up just for writing something on their blog
critical of thier government. It's important for this young democracy
and Afganistan's to flourish in a part of the world where freedom
and tolerance are rare.

Freedom isn't free because there's better people than you out there
preserving your freedom with blood, which must be spilt from time
to time otherwise evil forces will take it from you.

"If you can read this message thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English of your own free will THANK A SOLDIER!"

They would have gone even higher if he hasn't invaded the Iraq.
They are going higher now only because he fucked up in Iraq.
Bush thought it would be an easy trip to make this war over, but he was mistaken.

In my opinion, he should be hanged together with Sadam on the same row.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC I witnessed it with my very own eyes. And so did thousands, just because one handyman with a limited education swears something else must have been up doesn't make him special and right. You find one story about one guy who was there who thinks it's a US conspiracy isn't proof in my eyes or sway me to that sideways point of view.

He isn't alone.

quote:

As for WMDs we found Sarin rockets. Sarin is still Sarin and a WMD. 8 YEARS he defied UN Weapon Inspectors so his 'destruction' of his WMDs were nvr verified. It's saddam's fault for not complying not Bush and I'm a MARINE not a soldier friend.

Marine, soldier, whatever. Being in a collective has it's shortcomings, like not thinking for ones' self. But enough about you. You're only told what you're needed to be told. If anyone has any delusions is people that pop off at the mouth resorting to name calling and childish remarks when faced with the facts; there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Here we are three years later and people still salivate when they hear that particular bell ring.

quote:

And it wasn't the only reason for war with Saddam's regime so people need to stop hanging onto the WMD crap.

The initial reason was that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and there was and imminent threat that they were going to be used. That was the primary objective while we are about number four on the list of reasons why we should still be there.

Reasons why the US has to be in Iraq (in chronological order):

1) WMD "crap". Yeah let's forget your fellow soldiers dying for "crap" that don't exist.

2) Establish a stable government

3) Quell an insurgency

4) End sectarian violence <<<< You are here

You would be familiar with this list had you actually browsed the newspapers.

While you were in country people, as you know, were "detained" for various unknown reasons. The inteligence gathered did not reveal the existence of any WMDs nor Osama bin Ladin (I am not linking the two just stating these were two whole seperate reasons for detainment).

Then again what is so good about intelligence if it never garners any truth or facts? Because intelligence is gathered to make war not stop it.

Remember humans have a short attention span and memory by nature. So it should come as no surprise when they capitalize on it. Kind of like when people give a rat's ass about a sporting event when their brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt and other loved ones or friends go off to war for nothing that exists. You did that and look at how much you're looking to wrestle with the demons you have about where've you been.

You can ask anyone here or look around, I've always stated that there were no weapons to be found. If there are satellites that can find people hiding underground then those satellites can confirm just where any hiddens weapons of mass destruction are. But why should anyone not tell you this? Because it's to keep you in line, you should know; you're in line now and will deny it.


Iraq and weapons of mass destruction

DISARMING SADDAM-A CHRONOLOGY OF IRAQ AND UN WEAPONS INSPECTIONS FROM 2002-2003


If you want to reply use any one of my Iraq threads.

You're weird dude. Get a grip on reality. I like thou
you didn't answer and quote this:

Iraq, hmmm. Bush lied? Well let's see, truth is the CIA
like the U.n., China, Russia, Britain, France, you name
it, all their intelligence services believed he had WMDs.
Bush didn't know for a fact that they 'didn't' and then
tell us he did know for a fact Iraq had WMDs. Everyone
believed Saddam did and after 8 years someone had to do
something. Better to not take the chance than go another
eight years writing stupid UN Resoultions over & over.

=================

You keep hanging onto there were no WMDs and Bush knew it.
Our own CIA wasn't positive and that's where he got his
intel not his own secret something. And the entire world
believed it. Saddam had 8 years and the ultimatum date
to back down and claim he had nothing and prove it. You
should focus your anger at him not someone else.

That bastard could have nipped this in the butt but your
hatred of Bush has blinded you and your attitude... Well
there's no point in debating a delusional person so have
a good one.....

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC You're weird dude. Get a grip on reality. You keep hanging onto there were no WMDs and Bush knew it. Our own CIA wasn't positive and that's where he got his intel not his own secret something. And the entire world believed it. Saddam had 8 years and the ultimatum date to back down and claim he had nothing and prove it. You should focus your anger at him not someone else.

Double speak can be funny. Shut up and watch this child:



Now that it's gone out the other ear, go back to your frat house and join the other brainwashed retards.

Child? Easy for you to call people names over the
internet but if we met in RL it would be different...

Anywhooo, the country was for the war and Dems too.
He didn't know something that we all didn't or did
know there wasn't WMDs even when the CIA didn't too?
I'm confused in how you people are convinced he knew
there were no WMDs, who told him that? The CIA? Or
since you guys love conspiracies it must have been
the 'secret society' he was in when in college.

No thanks for some cheap propaganda video, you and
michael moore can keep them for yourselves. A video
with clips and sad music and dumb liberal views
isn't going to convince anyone with a straight head
on their shoulders.

You guys are a lost cause, too ignorant and so engulfed
by blind hatred for one man who you believe is responsible
for all the evils in the world. What you need to do is
actually see the world not stare at a computer screen
and find weird videos on youtube.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC Child? Easy for you to call people names over the internet but if we met in RL it would be different...

"Child" isn't profanity, and your considering it so only validates that you indeed are one. In "RL," if you dared lift a finger, you'd discover very quickly why it's not a good idea. Perhaps if you were a little wiser and secure in your manhood, you might make the painstaking effort of "thinking" (maybe even critically) before you bother opening your mouth. Unless, ofcourse, you enjoy making yourself look like an even bigger fool than you've already proven yourself to be.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC No thanks for some cheap propaganda video, you and michael moore can keep them for yourselves. A video with clips and sad music and dumb liberal views isn't going to convince anyone with a straight head on their shoulders.

It's a collection of interviews with CIA analysts, UN inspectors, intelligence agency veterans, some of who've been there for longer than you've probably been alive, experts, and others, many who were part of the establishment. It's a far cry from a movie by that idiot Micheal Moore, and it's certainly not propagating a "liberal point of view."

EDIT: But I suppose 56 minutes that will shred your world view into peices is rather indimidating for you.

Well all you've prob seen of the world is austin.
You need to get out more kid but "Ignorance is
Bliss", I see works for you.

EDIT: Actually debate is good. And questioning the
government is every citizen's duty. It's a freedom
our Armed Forces have preserved for us and one of
the reasons I chose to serve this great nation.

We can agree to disagree and sorry for letting my
temper get the best of me. We're Americans and that's
good enough for me.

We want peave and prosperity for the world, we just
have different views on how to make it come about.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC Well all you've prob seen of the world is austin. You need to get out more kid but "Ignorance is Bliss", I see works for you.

I wouldn't call five different states and three different countries "Austin."

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC Well all you've prob seen of the world is austin. You need to get out more kid but "Ignorance is Bliss", I see works for you. EDIT: Actually debate is good. And questioning the government is every citizen's duty. It's a freedom our Armed Forces have preserved for us and one of the reasons I chose to serve this great nation. We can agree to disagree and sorry for letting my temper get the best of me. We're Americans and that's good enough for me. We want peave and prosperity for the world, we just have different views on how to make it come about.

Good but I don't think vacation spots count j/k

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC EDIT: Actually debate is good. And questioning the government is every citizen's duty. It's a freedom our Armed Forces have preserved for us and one of the reasons I chose to serve this great nation. We can agree to disagree and sorry for letting my temper get the best of me. We're Americans and that's good enough for me. We want peave and prosperity for the world, we just have different views on how to make it come about.

Fine, no problem. But provacations and disrespect should be avoided in civil discourse though .

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC You're weird dude. Get a grip on reality.

When the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law is against you, argue the facts. When both the facts and the law are against you, call the other person names! - Michael Rivero whatreallyhappened.com

quote:

I like thou you didn't answer and quote this: Iraq, hmmm. Bush lied? Well let's see, truth is the CIA like the U.n., China, Russia, Britain, France, you name it, all their intelligence services believed he had WMDs. Bush didn't know for a fact that they 'didn't' and then tell us he did know for a fact Iraq had WMDs. Everyone believed Saddam did and after 8 years someone had to do something. Better to not take the chance than go another eight years writing stupid UN Resoultions over & over.

The need for intelligence (i.e. CIA) is to find the facts. But if those facts are not found then the only other reason to have intelligence is to make lies. It can't get simpler than that.

If you believe that there still are wmds then go to the recruiter and tell him you want to re-up. Trying to brainwash me into thinking there are still any left is irresponsible to say the least. After all, the hunt for those wmd's are OFFICIALLY over. But somehow I'm reminded of those Japanese in the south Pacific that didn't know WWII was over.

=================

quote:

You keep hanging onto there were no WMDs and Bush knew it. Our own CIA wasn't positive and that's where he got his intel not his own secret something. And the entire world believed it. Saddam had 8 years and the ultimatum date to back down and claim he had nothing and prove it. You should focus your anger at him not someone else.

Rehashing the same thing, keep hanging on to there being any wmd's in Iraq.

quote:

That bastard could have nipped this in the butt but your hatred of Bush has blinded you and your attitude... Well there's no point in debating a delusional person so have a good one.....

Hatred of Bush? What have you've been near DU for too long? I don't hate anybody. They're all equally selfish. Bush, Kerry and whoever. What's at stake here is human life. If you want to go find those "crap" wmd's then be my guest. I'm not the one who's brainwashed here.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC You guys are a lost cause, too ignorant and so engulfed by blind hatred for one man who you believe is responsible for all the evils in the world. What you need to do is actually see the world not stare at a computer screen and find weird videos on youtube.

If my answers scare you then stop asking scary questions. In other words you can't argue politics and claim people have hatred. It's bad enough you're brainwashed into wearing a silly haircut.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Rehashing the same thing, keep hanging on to there being any wmd's in Iraq.

quote:

Iraq, hmmm. Bush lied? Well let's see, truth is the CIA like the U.n., China, Russia, Britain, France, you name it, all their intelligence services believed he had WMDs. Bush didn't know for a fact that they 'didn't' and then tell us he did know for a fact Iraq had WMDs. Everyone believed Saddam did and after 8 years someone had to do something. Better to not take the chance than go another eight years writing stupid UN Resoultions over & over.

You're still dodging the question ^. At the time everyone
in the world believed he had WMDs, and Bush didn't know
for a fact and purposely lied. Not saying 'there being
any wmd's in Iraq'. Thou you already dismissed the Sarin
they found...

So your arguement fails. You keep going 'NO WMDs OMG,
and he knew it yadayadayad!'. Well every intelligence
agency in the world thought he did. You must think the
CIA is uber that it knows all and Bush knew for a fact
all WMD programs were verifiably dismantled according
to UN resolutions huh? Shish lol. You give the CIA too
much credit.

dont bother devildog. there are certain people in the PDD that have a deep need to believe the 9/11 conspiracies. nothing you say will ever change that, anymore than saddam could convince the US he didn't have any WMDs.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC You're still dodging the question.

No, you're not bothering to read his responses. Several people have addressed this a million times in the last 3 years.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC At the time everyone in the world believed he had WMDs, and Bush didn't know for a fact and purposely lied.

That's the opposite of reality. Disproven over and over again, before the war even began.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC

Take this argument to these two threads of your choosing:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...528#post7102528

or

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=224487

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