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-- Keyed tunes for Harmonic mixers
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hey pinokio,

i plan on updating the mixshare.com site soon to allow adding songs over the net again. i got busy making improvements to the rapid evolution client and have put it off for too long!

quote:

Originally posted by qualia hey pinokio, i plan on updating the mixshare.com site soon to allow adding songs over the net again. i got busy making improvements to the rapid evolution client and have put it off for too long!

Thanks Qualia, I know you work hard on that

Your help is appreciated

Thanks =)

I need key or number for armin van buuren feat. racoon - love you more (vocal mix). Mixed in key tells me 4b and mix share's website tells me 1A, which should i trust?

quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin I need key or number for armin van buuren feat. racoon - love you more (vocal mix). Mixed in key tells me 4b and mix share's website tells me 1A, which should i trust?

mix it with both a 1A track and a 4A track, you should be able to hear the key from there, thats what i do and it works perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy mix it with both a 1A track and a 4A track, you should be able to hear the key from there, thats what i do and it works perfect.

I actually mixed it with both and they bothed sounded pretty good. No discordance but then again not sure what im looking for. Neither of them clased and I mixed it with both 1's and 4's and all sounded good. Maybe the song is just easy to mix but I want it to be perfect in key cause its a battle thing and it must be perfect

quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin I need key or number for armin van buuren feat. racoon - love you more (vocal mix). Mixed in key tells me 4b and mix share's website tells me 1A, which should i trust?

your ears. just listened to a sample. it was a tricky one but id say 4B.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN your ears. just listened to a sample. it was a tricky one but id say 4B.

thanks

can anyone give me the key on 4 strings - take me away - purple haze remix

thx

F#m 11A per mixshare

Was thinkin' today whilst listening to some tunes and it crossed my mind that if you say that when you pitch a track up 3% it goes up or down a key (think that's what was said) then in theory could you not mix any two tracks together if they were pitched correctly?

And if this is true could anybody tell me how you would work out how much percent your pitching in Ableton without me having to get the calculator out. Would I be then able to pitch a track to a key I desired?

EDIT/

Also just remmeber that I forgot to ask wether anyone who uses Ableton knows wether if you warp a track in 'Complex' mode, if that will eliminate the problem of key change, on increase/decrease of BPM?

When you pitch a track up or down 6% you change by "one key," which is actually called a "semi-tone" or a "half step." This is similar to the next note on a keyboard, or going from "A-Flat Minor" to "A-Minor." Moving only 3% leaves you midway between adjacent notes, which is called a "hemi-tone." Moving up or down 12% takes you up or down two notes. Moving 18% takes you up or down three notes, etc.

When songs are pitched correctly, they may be mixed into compatible keys as illustrated in our Easymix Circle. Melodies may NOT be harmonically mixed with other melodies that are a half-step up or down. A half-step move on a keyboard is a shift of SEVEN keycodes in our Easymix Circle.

So if you have a track which is in key 1A for example would you be able to pitch it up or down to a key of your choice, within reason, so that essentially a track could be whatever key you desired, obviously sensibly or it will sound weird. I was only thinkin' this because I notice that Paul van Dyk tends to mix Kuffdam & Plant - Summerdream (Paul van Dyk Remix) into Crush (Vandit Mix) but their keys don't match, I'm assuming they've both been repitched to compatiable keys or maybe they were keyed up wrong I don't know, just wonderin' if any of yo could shed some light upon this.

Yes, you could pitch it up or down to any compatible key, but limitations include:

- In the DJ context, "pitch" usually means changes in speed where a songs key and BPM are normally linked. Changing BPM by 6% normally changes a key by one semitone. With key controllers, you may adjust speed and key independently. You could theoretically adjust the key of a song up or down six semitones to any point around the Easymix Circle. This would be like moving up or down six keys on a piano keyboard.

- Adjusting with key controllers creates distortion, with the worst distortion happening the more you adjust the key. Moving only a few percent may have minimal side effects, while larger shifts will sound worse. This depends on the audio quality of the key controller.

- Pitch adjustment without key controllers moves BPM and key together, in a lockstep. While you avoid key controller distortion, these shifts may produce chipmunk or Darth Vader vocal effects when done to excess. You can pitch shift instrumental tracks much more easily than vocal tracks because there are few "normal" instrumental sounds aside from percussion.

Anyone in here use the key lock feature on the cdj1000? how usefull is it, do you keep it on at all times? i spin vinyl and its becoming kind of frustrating figuring out what key my tunes are when they're pitched up or down. If anyone uses this feature maybe you can shed some light on the advantages and disadvantages etc, thanks.

Hi, so the higher the number is the more climax i get outta dat song? for instance if i want my set to be building from slow to fast..shoud i place my songs from 1A---3a----12a(end of the set?

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Camelot_Sound Melodies may NOT be harmonically mixed with other melodies that are a half-step up or down.Easymix Circle.

So are you saying that if i pitch up a track 3% it will not sound good with any other track regarless of its key?

Hey STARBOY

Not strictly true.

The statement should read that if there is a 3% difference between two tracks, then it wont sound that good. You will find exceptions though as with anything else.
If however you have two tracks that are playing a +3% then all should be fine and dandy.
If you do a quick bass change in a mix you will get a slight lift but in general a blend can sound a bit clangourous.


AHWAY26
No it doesn�t work like that, if you think about the way musical scales and octaves work you will realise that the theory is totally different.
The actual Camelot wheel has nothing to do with how your set should be played other than the fact that it gives you the compatible keys with a particular track.

In theory you can give a feeling of infinitely rising energy if you mix the following way.
A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G

It�s like a spiral that never ends. Of course with the above types of mixes you would have to do quick change key mixes as a blend would sound horrible but you would get a very good rise in energy.
But with regards to playing a set, it has as much to do with your understanding of your own music as it does what keys you mix. There is an art to knowing what a track does on the dance floor.
When you start playing out you will quickly find that tracks you think will rock the place actually bomb pretty badly and stuff you can�t stand the sound of will actually blow the roof of the place. In time you learn to understand what works on the dance floor and learn to think more in those lines.


IN GENERAL
Guys always remember, this is a tool not a solution. Whilst I believe that it will improve your mixing without question it is not the only thing to keep in mind when you are mixing.
The tunes character is as important as the key it�s in.

Cheers
Nem

Any word on warping tracks in Ableton and realtion to key changes or if it's possible to keep the same key when increasing/decreasing pitch.

You can change the key in Ableton and keep the pitch (Time Stretch type thingy).
However you need to be careful as to how much you do this as it can have a very strange effect on percussive sounds and the kick. Can make things sound like a bad mix even if it's one track playing.

This is also true for a lot of pitch correction software including CDJs1000 master pitch.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Hey STARBOY Not strictly true. The statement should read that if there is a 3% difference between two tracks, then it wont sound that good. You will find exceptions though as with anything else. If however you have two tracks that are playing a +3% then all should be fine and dandy. If you do a quick bass change in a mix you will get a slight lift but in general a blend can sound a bit clangourous. Cheers Nem

Ok i understand this, but lets say i have two tracks im trying to blend together harmonicly and the tempo i want to play at is around 136 bpm.

Track one is 12A and 136bpm original speed (this one stays zero pitch)

Track two is 6A and 130bpm original speed and needs to be piched up 4.65% to beatmatch with track one.

By increasing the pitch on track two that much it increases the its key enough to blend well with track one right? given that it makes it compatable +1 or -1

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Anyone in here use the key lock feature on the cdj1000? how usefull is it, do you keep it on at all times? i spin vinyl and its becoming kind of frustrating figuring out what key my tunes are when they're pitched up or down. If anyone uses this feature maybe you can shed some light on the advantages and disadvantages etc, thanks.

I have a CDJ-200 and I always use the Master Tempo (Key Lock).
When I play at clubs with the CDJ-1000 I always use it also.

but I tend not to go over 2.50 %, beacuse in most songs it will start to sound weird.

This means in the range of BPM that I mix 125 Bpm-145 Bpm, that I can only increase BPM or decrease bpm by 3 numbers.

for example
Song A: 130 BPM, I won't go below 127 BPM and won't go over 133 BPM.
Song B (Mixing track): This in general have to be 6 numbers from the playing song. in this case the lowest original bpm track I owuld play with song A, would be 124, and the higher would be 136 original Bpm.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Ok i understand this, but lets say i have two tracks im trying to blend together harmonicly and the tempo i want to play at is around 136 bpm. Track one is 12A and 136bpm original speed (this one stays zero pitch) Track two is 6A and 130bpm original speed and needs to be piched up 4.65% to beatmatch with track one. By increasing the pitch on track two that much it increases the its key enough to blend well with track one right? given that it makes it compatable +1 or -1

Yes, exactly! This is Advanced Technique #1: Region Shifting, as explained in our harmonic mixing website.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Ok i understand this, but lets say i have two tracks im trying to blend together harmonicly and the tempo i want to play at is around 136 bpm. Track one is 12A and 136bpm original speed (this one stays zero pitch) Track two is 6A and 130bpm original speed and needs to be piched up 4.65% to beatmatch with track one. By increasing the pitch on track two that much it increases the its key enough to blend well with track one right? given that it makes it compatable +1 or -1

Yup, if you pitch the slower track up by that much it should in theory make it a 1A.

A rule of thumb you can remember is that if you pitch something up by that much you can always add 7 and you will get the new key.

Cheers
Nem

hey nem, whats wrong with -4 & +3 mixes?

Same reason you don't do a -7. You are going backwards on the chromatic scale and you will create a drop in energy because the notes you are changing to are too close to the root note.

Cheers
Nem

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