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-- Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War?
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| Originally posted by ogvh5150 Used without permission for non-commercial educational use only. All rights reserved. |
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| Another UN position of the Ghanaian battalion in the area of Marwahin in the western sector was also directly hit by one mortar round from the Hezbollah side last night. The round did not explode, and there were no casualties or material damage. Another 5 incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side were reported yesterday. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Alma ash Shab, Tibnin, Brashit, and At Tiri. All UNIFIL positions remain occupied and maintained by the troops. |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo from UNIFIL's own recent report. trust me, you wont here this stuff in the MSM press. >>UNIFIL report (PDF)<< |
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| Originally posted by Demoted Makes me wonder why the American press isn't covering this alleged attack by Hezbollah on the U.N. as it's strong lean toward Israel's side. |
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| Originally posted by jonSun Yep i was wondering the same thing. |
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| Originally posted by psychosomatica Actually.. I don't think it's that inconceivable. If Washington walks away, they're pretty much screwed. I believe the American people understood more about their relationship with Israel, there might be a public backlash. I'm not talking about Israel's contentious actions either. Israel gets about 3B usd of aid per year from the US (no strings attached, a condition which does not exist in any other aid agreement). I think it's been estimated that Israel has received 140B from the US since its inception. As a practical godless citizen, I would ask myself why my government gives $10 of my money to these guys I don't even know. Now, of course, there are those who are considered part of the 'Israel Lobby' or whatever you want to call it. But many of these are politicians which would have to change their stance if the perception of the American public changed (which I don't believe is too far away given the amount of information available today). All those vetoes and money would disappear in a flash. The argument that Israel is the ally of the United States blah blah blah spreading democracy... all makes no sense. They're not even there to spread the American agenda. They can't do anything for America... unlike say China.. or Pakistan or India. And remember, this is ALL from a practical point of view.. no religious, political or economic biases. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer you would think for a race that has been through holocaust would know much better then this.I guess some never learn. I have a feeling that this current situation could be the end for Israel. |
with each passing day things just get worse 
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Israel 'using chemical weapons' From: Reuters From correspondents in Beirut July 27, 2006 LEBANON is investigating reports from doctors that Israel has used weapons in its 15-day-old bombardment of southern Lebanon that have caused wounds they have never seen before. \"We are sending off samples tomorrow, but we have no confirmation yet that illegal weapons have been used,\" Health Minister Mohammed Khalife said. The Israeli army said it had used only conventional weapons and ammunition in attacks aimed at Hezbollah guerrillas and nothing contravening international law. Blackened bodies have been showing up at hospitals in southern Lebanon two weeks into the war between Israel and Hezbollah guerrillas that has seen at least 418 people, mostly civilians, killed in Lebanon and at least 42 Israelis. Killed by Israeli air raids, the Lebanese dead are charred in a way local doctors, who have lived through years of civil war and Israeli occupation, say they have not seen before. Bachir Cham, a Belgian-Lebanese doctor at the Southern Medical Centre in Sidon, received eight bodies after an Israeli air raid on nearby Rmeili which he said exhibited such wounds. He has taken 24 samples from the bodies to test what killed them. He believes it is a chemical. Dr Cham said the bodies of some victims were \"black as shoes, so they are definitely using chemical weapons. They are all black but their hair and skin is intact so they are not really burnt. It is something else\". \"If you burnt someone with petrol their hair would burn and their skin would burn down to the bone. The Israelis are 100 per cent using chemical weapons.\" Lebanese President Emile Lahoud has repeatedly accused Israel of using phosphorus bombs in its offensive. Human Rights Watch, which has accused the Israeli army of using cluster bombs in populated areas of southern Lebanon, said it had not verified claims that Israel had used phosphorus. \"We are investigating but we haven't confirmed anything yet. We have seen phosphorus used before and we have seen it in the artillery stocks of the Israeli army in the north,\" said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch. \"Phosphorus shells do have a legitimate use in illuminating the battlefield at night. The offensive use of phosphorus would be a violation of international conventions.\" Television footage shows some bodies, such as those of 20 civilians killed when an Israeli missile hit the van in which they were fleeing the border village of Marwaheen, blackened in the way Dr Cham describes. No one knows what killed them. \"We are seeing abnormal burns, different from wars we've seen in the past. The corpses of these victims are shrinking to half their normal size. You think it is the corpse of a child at first but it turns out to be a grown man,\" said Raed Salman Zeinedine, director of Tyre Government Hospital. \"We've never seen anything like it but what the causes are I don't want to speculate. We have no scientific answer.\" The Israel Army said it did not target civilians at all. \"We use only weapons and ammunition which will best hit our targets and cause least collateral damage,\" said army spokesman Captain Jacob Dallal. \"It could be that a body is burned from fire or the force of an explosion, but between that and suggesting we do something illegal under international law are two different things.\" |
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| Originally posted by Purple These are after the invasion, I am asking for any terrorist incident before the arrest and invasion of Lebanon. . |
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| Around 3 p.m. (8 a.m. ET), Hezbollah fighters began firing Katyusha rockets, mortars and machine guns into several Israeli towns and villages. Hezbollah rockets also hit an army base near the Israel-Lebanon border, the Israeli army said. An Israeli soldier was moderately wounded when a Hezbollah sniper fired at a group of soldiers in Kibbutz Manara on the Israel-Lebanon border, according to the IDF |
Im only going to post one argument, and then maybe some other stuff after (doubtful though).
Israel cannot destroy Hizballah with military force, military pressure, scare tactics, threat of invasion, or any such nonsense. Hizballah is part of the Lebanese government, Hizballah is stronger than the Lebanese military, and Lebanon itself is on a tight leash because of outside interests. (IE: Syria/Iran) Hizballah is also, quite simply, too well dug in and Israel simply will not defeat them from the Air/Sea/Ground, they will sustain too many losses and eventually just get their troops out of there and just try to bomb stuff.
In my opinion, Israel is pushing it's luck. By doing these things in Lebanon they are begging Iran to get involved, note I didnt mention Syria as Syria is being bullied into the corner by the big nasty Americans and Europeans at the moment. Iran however, is a badass and will pretty much do anything to defy anyone, nevermind the fact that Iran has 10 times the population of Israel, and a huge military. For the time being however, I believe Iran will fight its battle against Israel through Hizballah, which doesnt bode well for Israel either.
My post isnt regarding the outside interests/military standpoints, its more regarding the Lebanese people and the suffering they must endure because of Israel's OVERENTHUSIASTIC reaction. All the Israelis/Jews in this board can call me out on this, I dont care, I firmly believe that Israel could have been just as effective using other means to target Hizballah, they are doing what they're doing to send a message and to insight fear and EVEN MORE instability into southern Lebanon, if Israel were as smart as they think they are, they'd realize that more instability in the region poses an even greater threat to their Northern cities, and while the Israeli politicians get on infront of the cameras and state things like "We are for peace and stability in this region" they are dooming themselves to hypocricy right then and there. Bombing roads, bridges, airports and making life difficult for rescue operations is just causing more and more CHAOS and INSTABILITY.
CHAOS
AND
IN-STA-BIL-ITY!
THIS IS THE LAST THING ISRAEL WANTS, AND THIS IS THE FIRST THING THE OUTSIDE INTERESTS IN HIZBALLAH WANT!
Iran is smarter than Israel, Iran has opened its history book, and looked next door in Iraq to see that instability and "seemingly" out of control militant groups can wreak unspeakable havoc upon any opponent. In Iraq fighting men, (US and Iraqi soldiers) are getting blown up daily, what will happen when Israel claims to have quelled Hizballah? I predict suicide attacks on Northern Israeli cities, aswell as suicide attacks in Southern Israel by Hamas and other Palestinian groups. ISRAEL IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO LOSE CONTROL OF THIS SITUATION, and not even the USA, or Europe will be able to help Israel pick up the pieces.
If you want me to dig deeper into my conspiracy theory chest that I store for a rainy day, I predict that Iran is using this situation to divert attention away from their nuclear ambitions, Iran will eventually emerge with a nuclear weapon and tell Israel to move back to the original line, Israel will be forced to do this because it will not want to wage war against a country that A) Has a nuclear weapon B) has 10 times the population and C) wont be attacked by Americans/Europeans for the same reason as A). You cannot attack a country that has nukes with your military, because eventually someone will launch them and game over for earth.
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r You must be joking. We all know this has situation has been building since Syria left Lebanon to rot with the Hizbullah aka Iranian Guard dogs, so lets put down the bong and get off our high horse for a second. It's the Hizbullah that dragged everyone into this, that point is incontestable and they're to blame for being this upon the Lebanese people. Why is this so hard to understand?  |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer Hezbullah this Hezbullah that. |
The world will learn once again, that conventional "modern" warfare simply doesn't work.
"Smart" bombs, and surgical strikes do nothing but demolish infrastructure and hurt innocent civilians.
Dug in guerilla fighters are immune to this kind of bombing campaign.
The only way to strike fear into the hearts of enemies and TRUELY irradiate them is through brutal nuclear bombardment.
When the dust clears. And they look at a huge fucking crater. THEN. ONLY THEN. Will people get that it's a lot better to try to get along (or give up), then it is to get a �nuclear fuck attack� dropped on them. They will quickly learn that if they keep on fighting, even if they win--- what will they have to show for it? A fat crater that was once the very homes they were defending.
But the world is too wimpy to use nuclear weapons. Pandora's box was opened long ago, and there's no way the beautiful evil of nuclear weapons can be put back in the box.
Why not use them. Why not show some balls.
The US and Israel are constantly getting fucked over by pulling out just before they come. These sorts of tactics only encourage would-be terrorists. It gives them hope to keep fighting-- that they MIGHT actually win.
Whether you�re on Israel�s side or against them, you can�t deny the beauty that nuclear weapons hold as the most destructive negotiator ever created.
*sigh*
But take everything I say with a big grain of salt. I�m kind of a nuclear bug. To be honest, all this loss of innocent life is very tragic, on both sides. But this long drawn out pain and suffering could be ended with the brutal force of nuclear weapons.
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| Originally posted by DJFreaq To be honest, all this loss of innocent life is very tragic, on both sides. But this long drawn out pain and suffering could be ended with the brutal force of nuclear weapons. |
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| Originally posted by ronk yeah. good solution d00d. |
I'm historically very sympathetic to Israel. But this whole war is completely at odds with what common sense tells me. I think it's alienating moderation in the middle east ... Lebanon being one of the leaders for moderation. FFS they've held massive rallies that resulted in the eviction of Syria from the Lebanese government. Lebanon has been one of the shining examples that the US has used as an example of progress in the middle east. Where the fuck are they now? What do you think is happneing now that Syria is Lebanon's best friend? I understand that Israel needs to halt Hizbollah rocket attacks against Israel. And the if a cease fire does not accomplish this than the cease fire should be violated by Israel. But seriously let the other side do the polictical faux pas ... this is a war of reputation that Israel cannot win.
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| Originally posted by Shakka It is virtually unaniumously acknowledged that Hezbollah instigated this. What is your point? Do you want to argue the stance of proportionality? The argument there is that Israel has been shunned, persecuted and attacked for decades. Hezbollah is nothing more than a state sponsored terrorist organization. Their ultimate elimination will be a boon for the entire world. Israel does not intend to leave the job unfinished this time as it would only leave open the door for Hezbollah to regroup and instigate another day. |
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| Originally posted by Purple Coudnt find any link to any recent terrorist act by Hizbollah ? The point I want to make is that Hezbollah is not Al-Qaida, Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation. They are the name for South Lebanon's Army. They have been resonsible for maintaining law and order there, forming govt, building infrastructure like school, hospitals etc in South Lebanon. They have 14 seats in Lebanon�s Parliament. They fought Israeli occupation and got Lebanon free from them in year 2000. Hezbollah has provided military defense of the area acting as the area's army. Despite no official declaration, the stated policy of the Lebanese Government has supported Hezbollah as the army of South Lebanon. People in Lebanon respect them and look upto them. They are neither hated like Taliban was (by some people) in Afaghanistan. Only FOUR countries in this ENTIRE world have listed Hezbollah as a 'terrorist' organisation, two of them US and Israel. Other than few clashes between Hezbollah and Israeli forces at border, albeit at a relatively low level, in the years following 2000, they have not participated in any 'terrorist' act. These kind of clashes at border level happen between a lot of countries with slightest border dispute. Its call border skermishes; not terrorism, not terrorist act. The point I want to make it, stop calling everyone 'terrorist' and terrorising other people lives at the same hand. Israel is a terrorist nation. |
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| Originally posted by Purple Israel is a terrorist nation. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer Hezbullah this Hezbullah that. I cant believe how one sided you are on this.For the love of god get some brain and look close and see who is really to blame here.Hezbullah will be bigger and more powerful then even thanks to Isreal.I can asure that this whole situation will back fire on Israel big time. |
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Canadian Killed Complained U.N. Position Was Shielding Hezbollah IMRA reports (via colleague Grayson Levy): "...the tragic loss of a soldier yesterday who I happen to know and I think probably is from my Regiment. We've received e-mails from him a few days ago and he described the fact that he was taking within - in one case -- three meters of his position "for tactical necessity - not being targeted". Now that's veiled speech in the military and what he was telling us was Hezbullah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were (sic) targeting them and that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it." Retired Canadian Major General Lewis MacKenzie interviewed on CBC Toronto radio 26 July 2006 For recording: http://cbc.ca/metromorning/media/20060726LMCJUL26.ram |
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A Reminder Of Hezbollah's Track Record Some still consider Israel's decision to respond with a limited war to Hezbollah's invasion, which killed eight and saw two IDF soldiers abducted by the terrorists, an unreasonable reaction to the scale of the provocation. People have forgotten that Hezbollah has not sat quietly in Lebanon and acted as a political party during the six years after Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon. Just eight months ago, Hezbollah fired off rockets at Israel: Rocket Attacks Don't Dent Sharon By Martin Sieff Dec 29, 2005 WASHINGTON, The latest wave of Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israel suggest an ambitious tactical political agenda on the part of the attackers. With Israel deep in the throes of probably its most crucial general election in almost 29 years, terrorist groups are trying to directly influence the political process. The attacks certainly fulfill the warning of Israeli security chiefs that hostile Islamist groups would seek to follow up the unilateral Israeli withdrawal Gaza earlier this year with a new wave of terror attacks. And certainly so far, the guerrillas still do not appear to be anywhere near reclaiming the capability they enjoyed for years in the Second Intifada of massacring dozens of Israeli civilians, including women and children, almost per week in suicide bomb attacks. The attacks by Hezbollah from the north are clearly backed by the new hard-line regime in Iran where the new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has called for Israel to be wiped off the map and questioned the historical accuracy of the Holocaust. As tensions mount between Israel and an Iran rapidly driving to acquire a formidable nuclear strike capability, Iran is clearly showing no hesitation in playing the Hezbollah card. And in May 2005, this report from Isracast reminds us that Hezbollah showered northern Israel with rockets for three days in September 2004. This came as Ariel Sharon considered the Gaza withdrawal, and led Sharon to forswear a new war in Lebanon at that time -- when Rafik Hariri's assassination forced the Syrians to withdraw from Lebanon themselves: Along the Lebanese frontier, Hezbollah launched a series of cross border shellings of Israeli civilian and military targets. There were no Israeli casualties but some damage. The IDF responded with limited air strikes and tank fire. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says Israel has no intention of being drawn into a further escalation by the pro-Iranian Hezbollah. Hezbollah guerillas in south Lebanon shelled Israel for further three days running. Although Israeli aircraft and tanks fired back, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Israel has no interest in being drawn into a further escalation. * Sept.11th - Hezbollah fires Katyusha rocket at Western Galilee town of Shelomi - the rocket slams into the industrial zone causing damage but no casualties because the area was abandoned due to Independence Day. * Sept.12th - Hezbollah fires 2 rockets from south Lebanon at IDF position in Mount Dov area (Shaaba farms) of Syria. No Casualties or damage. Israeli forces return fire at Hezbollah positions in the area. * Sept.13th - Hezbollah fires 13 mortar bombs at IDF positions in Mount Dov, IDF fires back and hits 3 Hezbollah positions. One might ask what the UNIFIL forces did during this time. Apparently, not a lot. They didn't act as a deterrent, nor did they do much to stop it. That might come up for discussion at the UN Security Council very soon, because UNIFIL's mandate expires next Monday: According to Security Council resolutions 425 (1978) and 426 (1978) of 19 March 1978, UNIFIL was established to: * Confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon; * Restore international peace and security; * Assist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area. Most recently the mandate of UNIFIL was extended until 31 July 2006 by Security Council resolution 1655 (2006) of 31 January 2006. I doubt seriously that anyone will support its extension, given the complete failure of this mission to provide any sort of protection against terrorism in the region. (UNIFIL link via NZ Bear) |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r How about you do some reading and catch up on Hezbollah using women, children and THE U.N. as shields while they killed a Canadian U.N. soldier in the process? UNITED NATIONS INTERIM FORCE IN LEBANON (UNIFIL) Report >>Source<< How does the Hezbollah ever expect to gain sympathy from anyone with THAT brillant game plan? The Hezbollah's mandate is clear, the distruction of Isreal and nothing less and at any cost. >>Source<< |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer If these brutal hezbullah terrorists are that evil then why is it that almost all arab countries support them? |
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| you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized? |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized? |
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| When Arabs are winning they see no rationale for quitting because chaos is their goal. When they begin to lose they claim victimhood, knowing they can extract more from anxious Westerners who feel guilty. With Radical Arabs, everything is temporary until they regain, or perceive they have, the advantage. They never stop trying the door knobs in hope that they can enter and steal. Negotiate, cease fire, disproportionalism- all "garbage words" - simply play into the terrorist's hands because they demonstrate weakness, lack of resolve and willingness to crush them. And even if you crush them, the flames of their hatred born out of years of misguided education, feelings of inadequacy and historic mis-treatment remain burning embers capable of re-igniting. Radical Islamist terrorism is amoebic and difficult to kill but appeasement and flight are also not the answer. We are in for a very long struggle and the more we allow them to acheive weapon equivalency the more destruction and tragedy will be the dividends. If nothing else, Hezballah should prove that. We either stop Iran, N Korea, Syria et al now or we will have to do so later unless we are ready to surrender our freedom, which many seem willing to do not knowing what they are asking for. It is as simple and yet as complex as that and I don't know a damn thing like the vaulted political, military and diplomatic experts who got us here. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer If these brutal hezbullah terrorists are that evil then why is it that almost all arab countries support them?if they are that bad why isnt the whole world going after them? why is it that only Israel and the U.S wants them out? |
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you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized? |
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Almost everyone in the world aside from the U.S is saying that this war will bring no good to Israel and istead it will make Hezbullah more powerful and more popular in the region. |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r As Q5echo as eluded to, all the other arab countries are pretty quiet on this one or have out and out spoke of their displeasure with Hizbollah. |
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| I hope this is a rhetorical question because Israel's demands are quite clear to everyone else? |
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| While it's true Hizbollah is part of the parliment and such, their policies are anything but popular to everyone else in the region (minus Syria and Iran of course). |
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