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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN these issues have been examined and debunked time and time again. which you would know if you EVER read anything from the other side of the fence. but you dont; you just ignore everything like you did when i hammered you over the WTC7 building collapse. youre a paranoid conspiracy lover and i see no point in trying to reason with you.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Argumentum ad verecundiam. Ad hominems don't impress me eigther.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ignore the trolls bait ogvh5150 & Magnetonium. Don't feed the troll.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z It's the most unconvings nonsense I've ever read on the subject. Sorry. I would have elaborate on that before, but like I said, I'm not fond of going in circles.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ad hominems don't impress me eigther.

now- the former comment didnt really leave me much room to comment, thus me resorting to the latter. if you mentioned anything of consequence perhaps i wouldnt have. i know youre not fond of going in circles but on the other hand i think the amount of faith youre willing to put into "your" experts (like non-expert steven jones) is extraordinary when compared to what those that contradict him. ie, i dont understand why you would take a physics professor's word about the nature of an explosion/collapse over those that set industry standards for explosives and demolitions.

as for attacking magnetonium, cant say i care. he's obsessively concerned with weird paranoid delusions and i mock him as such. im sorry if this makes me a bad person.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN these issues have been examined and debunked time and time again. which you would know if you EVER read anything from the other side of the fence. but you dont; you just ignore everything like you did when i hammered you over the WTC7 building collapse. youre a paranoid conspiracy lover and i see no point in trying to reason with you.

Unlike the demolition/collapse, which is debatable so I wont bother arguing, my points above mentioned are not debatable, they're acknowledged, on the record, FACTS. You cant DEBUNK that while terrorists attacked on 9/11 and 7/11, government agencies were doing terrorist drills precisely at the same time. Are you saying that was a lie?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Unlike the demolition/collapse, which is debatable so I wont bother arguing, my points above mentioned are not debatable, they're acknowledged, on the record, FACTS. You cant DEBUNK that while terrorists attacked on 9/11 and 7/11, government agencies were doing terrorist drills precisely at the same time. Are you saying that was a lie?

no, what im saying is that you guys seem to put an AWFUL lot of weight to coincidental occurences that dont prove ANYTHING. i simply cannot follow the trains of thought (and leaps of illogical faith) some people on here make.

i think its simply ludicrous that such outlandish claims can be believed when supported by virtually NO real, hard, convincing evidence. if coincidences and interpretations is all you have after 5+ years of investigation...

im more than happy to be convinced otherwise of the 9/11 events, but the more ridiculous the claim (ie "no plane hit the pentagon") the evidence supporting such a claim should be correspondingly larger.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, what im saying is that you guys seem to put an AWFUL lot of weight to coincidental occurences that dont prove ANYTHING. i simply cannot follow the trains of thought (and leaps of illogical faith) some people on here make. i think its simply ludicrous that such outlandish claims can be believed when supported by virtually NO real, hard, convincing evidence. if coincidences and interpretations is all you have after 5+ years of investigation... im more than happy to be convinced otherwise of the 9/11 events, but the more ridiculous the claim (ie "no plane hit the pentagon") the evidence supporting such a claim should be correspondingly larger.

On 9/11, Pentagon/CIA had their first terrorist drills in years. And the same time SAME PLACE terrorist hit (the drill involved planes hitting Pentagon, WTC ...) and on 7/7 government agencies ran drills ON THE SAME subway stations AT THE SAME TIME that the alleged terrorists hit. And that was the first terrorist drill in subways they had in over 10 years. WOW, WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF TWO, 2! COINCIDENCES RELATING THE SAME EVENT even the SAME CLICHE NAMES (9/11, 7/7) SAME PLACES ... oh, my ... and you still cant clue in. Those f-cking coincidences, eh, once in a lifetime kind? Eh?

Watch the videos:

7-7 attacks had drills going on at the same time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B5Jltzcimc

9/11 attacks had drills going on at the same time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNjLt3vVwg

Haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ65NwtbQic

Full radio transcript for the same 7/7 attacks by a guy who clearly identifies himself as former British intelligence agent now working for some shady security company.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPafvtJ9GU

quote:

i think its simply ludicrous that such outlandish claims can be believed when supported by virtually NO real, hard, convincing evidence. if coincidences and interpretations is all you have after 5+ years of investigation...

9/11 Drills?

http://www.boston.com/news/packages...ne_exercise.htm

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...litaryExercises

Odds that the exact same terror drills (hijacked planes crashing into buildings) occurred the very same day has a probability of ZERO PERCENT.

Coincidences on 9/11 actually help to really show the truth of the events of that day. They become more of the missing pieces to bind it all together and are not coincidences after all.

quote:

im more than happy to be convinced otherwise of the 9/11 events, but the more ridiculous the claim (ie "no plane hit the pentagon") the evidence supporting such a claim should be correspondingly larger.

After 5+ years where is the footage of the plane that did crash then? It should be recorded and probably is by the many security cameras at the worlds most guarded building.

Something did crash into the Pentagon, the onus is on the government to show the proper footage to the public. They do have the footage but it seems they have something to hide otherwise we would all of seen it by now.

What's the problem really? If they tell us a story where are the facts and most importantly the FOOTAGE to back it up, again it's only been 5+ years right?

idiots. and i am finally done with this thread.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN idiots.

Ad hominem.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and i am finally done with this thread.

That's nice, no more trolling huh ?

goddamn it shaolin, dont make me a liar!

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ad hominem.

i know, and i really dont care. ive argued patiently and logically with magnetonium before, and it didnt do any good coz he just wouldnt listen. i gave him so much evidencce re WTC7 but he just ignored it and made some ridiculous leaps of faith.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's nice, no more trolling huh ?

im not a troll. go back into the early days of this thread and you'll find posts from me asking ogv to give me sites & information & videos. but yeah, like you im sick of going in circles with people that are otherwise quite intelligent, but simply refuse to entertain alternate possibilities whilst believing the most outlandish claims backed by the flimsiest evidence.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN goddamn it shaolin, dont make me a liar!

Tehe .

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i know, and i really dont care. ive argued patiently and logically with magnetonium before, and it didnt do any good coz he just wouldnt listen. i gave him so much evidencce re WTC7 but he just ignored it and made some ridiculous leaps of faith.

They could say the exact same things about you. Does it really add any weight to their argument or yours .

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im not a troll. go back into the early days of this thread and you'll find posts from me asking ogv to give me sites & information & videos. but yeah, like you im sick of going in circles with people that are otherwise quite intelligent, but simply refuse to entertain alternate possibilities whilst believing the most outlandish claims backed by the flimsiest evidence.

Again, they would say the exact same things about you. I'm pretty sure we're all sick of going in circles. And no, I think we've all considered all sides and arguements. So it's a little unfair to make that assertion as an argument .

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ignore the trolls bait ogvh5150 & Magnetonium. Don't feed the troll.

Sometimes when people can't argue facts, they argue a lie. When they can't argue a lie they poke fun and name call believing they just debunked you. All along they respond to threads like "Russia bans gay marriage, what are your thoughts?", "More crop circles found in Antarctica", "Finland bans marijuana for medicinal use" or "Face on Mars winks an eye".

They flood those threads, then they come here trying to argue like their frigging post count amounts to something.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Man, we've already gone in circles countless number of times. Do you really anything would change (for any of us) if we did it once again?

It's about the allegory of the cave. People looking at shadows on the wall not stepping out of the cave to see the world for what it really is. This is all people like him know. Let him suffer in ignorance and not bother.

You just can't reach some sheeple, err I meant people.

Top google videos worldwide for as of Jan 31 2007

3) Loose Change, 109k views

4) America Freedom to facism, 98k

11) Terrorstorm, 56K

15) 9/11 Mysteries, 49k


300,000 views in one day!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z They could say the exact same things about you. Does it really add any weight to their argument or yours .

there is a BIG difference between saying "i remain unconvinced" by dot-to-dot assumptions regarding apparent anomalies and coincidences, and arguing (as magnetonium did) that the photo i provided for him of WTC7 burning like a mother****** was really just a pic of the dust-cloud from WTC1/2 its stuff like that that gets me annoyed. im more than happy to say "i dont know" to questions people raise if i dont think i have anything to offer; but to so blatantly ignore evidence (like the testimony of dozens of firefighters) just makes me wonder if people really ARE after the truth. you bring me a smoking gun shaolin and you know id change my tune in an instant

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Again, they would say the exact same things about you. I'm pretty sure we're all sick of going in circles. And no, I think we've all considered all sides and arguements. So it's a little unfair to make that assertion as an argument .

possibly. however my argument through all this has been that the more extreme a viewpoint, the more hard evidence should exist to support that view. HARD evidence mind you- not dot-to-dot leaps of faith regarding exactly what might be meant by war-games or terror drills on the day in question.

ridiculously stupid and ill-conceived comments like this:

quote:

Originally posted by culorut After 5+ years where is the footage of the plane that did crash then? It should be recorded and probably is by the many security cameras at the worlds most guarded building.

are also tiresome. that people cant see the huge logical problems with such viewpoints is simply sad.

as is

quote:

3) Loose Change, 109k views

if this is the standard of examination people are putting into their views on 9/11 then all of us non-believers should really stop wasting our time. nothing like a shitty high-school assignment to educate the masses

There was a security camera that caught the plane crashing into the Pentagon. Of course the pot heads said it looked like a missle......take a close look at the video. It's a plane. This video zooms the security cam in so that you can make out the plane. The pot head versions don't zoom in...because they want to believe there is a conspiracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

So where did they put the missing plane then? Area 51. That's what I heard. The passengers were taken hostage quickly after landing at Area 51 and their bodies are being used to manufacture oil.

U.S. Army General Says Flight 77 Did Not Hit Pentagon

quote:

are also tiresome. that people cant see the huge logical problems with such viewpoints is simply sad.

No people who believe things which the mass media say without facts and proof is simply sad.

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So where did they put the missing plane then? Area 51. That's what I heard. The passengers were taken hostage quickly after landing at Area 51 and their bodies are being used to manufacture oil.

Who's smoking the pot?

If the so called plane (AA77) crashed into the pentagon then the government owes it to the public to release the footage, not some blurry frames leaving more unanswered questions.

If it was AA77 then where is it? Simple yet after 5+ years still nothing.....

hmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by culorut No people who believe things which the mass media say without facts and proof is simply sad. Who's smoking the pot? If the so called plane (AA77) crashed into the pentagon then the government owes it to the public to release the footage, not some blurry frames leaving more unanswered questions. If it was AA77 then where is it? Simple yet after 5+ years still nothing..... hmmmm

obviously you...since you are Canadian.

where was the plane in Pennsylvania? Wasn't one. No traces. The planes were selected with a lot of fuel for a reason.

Can you imagine the kind of theories we would have if there wasn't footage of the twin towers getting hit? I would go insane.

Re: U.S. Army General Says Flight 77 Did Not Hit Pentagon

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z

Typical.

No facts to back yourself up so attack the individual and not the information.

Trolls,

do

not

feed

them.

Re: U.S. Army General Says Flight 77 Did Not Hit Pentagon

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z

well, as compelling as that geriatric is come on shaolin. PLEASE dont tell me you think a missile hit the 'gon! and if so, you have to tell me where all the people from the flight went, where all the plane wreckage came from, why hundreds of witnesses are wrong when they saw the plane hit, what exactly knocked down the telegraph poles on the approach to the building. you cant possibly hold that old man up as a counter to what hundreds of people saw and investigated!

quote:

Originally posted by culorut No people who believe things which the mass media say without facts and proof is simply sad.

oh, here we go! typical response from the ignorant conspiracy hack. disagree with someone, gee i MUST have got all my info from the media. idiot. and youre a fucking noob anyway so how the fuck would you know what i base my opinions on?

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Who's smoking the pot? If the so called plane (AA77) crashed into the pentagon then the government owes it to the public to release the footage, not some blurry frames leaving more unanswered questions. If it was AA77 then where is it? Simple yet after 5+ years still nothing..... hmmmm

see, this is why i said goodbye to this thread (i blame you for bringing me back shaolin! )

firstly- who says there is ANY other footage of the plane hitting. i mean seriously, thats just your assumption. based on what? does the pentagon routinely have cameras aimed at the approach angle of the plane? we saw the footage of other planes hitting buildings. why the fuck is there some doubt here?

for those of us with actual brains, the fact that theres numerous wreckage parts from the plane and dead bodies from those on the flight is certainly enough to believe a plane hit. again, im amazed at what you people will swallow despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

pentagon investigation by those that dont wear tin-foil hats

Re: Re: U.S. Army General Says Flight 77 Did Not Hit Pentagon

quote:

Originally posted by xstalkrx

That's not an argument to say the least. Even assuming it is, why the hell would I want to believe that my own goverment is responsible for the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever? Apparently you don't consider logic to be an important aspect of an argument.

EDIT: Herem you might want to take a look at this before you consider forming an argument:

Logical fallacy

particularly this one:

quote:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.

On a happy note, I won my part of the argument, cementing my fellow TA supporters view of government involvement on 9/11, backed by the fact that government agencies were running terrorist drills first time in years same time same place as terrorist struck. Jackpott!!!

Either way, terrorists did it or not, government agencies worked along with terrorists had a hand in it throwing off the mighty NORAD to believe it was only a terrorist drill, and when they figured out otherwise, it all too late

Umm, so why would the government run terrorist drills at the same time? I'm not exactly sure how that ties into the conspiracy. Can anyone enlighten me?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Either way, terrorists did it or not, government agencies worked along with terrorists had a hand in it throwing off the mighty NORAD to believe it was only a terrorist drill, and when they figured out otherwise, it all too late

inappropriate laughter there.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's not an argument to say the least. Even assuming it is, why the hell would I want to believe that my own goverment is responsible for the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever? Apparently you don't consider logic to be an important aspect of an argument.

well, i do think youre more easily convinced by things that are negatively related to your government. which is fair enough most of the time coz the US has a sordid history in the world. i just think in this instance you've given them more credit than they are due

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail Umm, so why would the government run terrorist drills at the same time? I'm not exactly sure how that ties into the conspiracy. Can anyone enlighten me?

exactly. the argument i believe relates to added "camouflage" to aid the terrorists. or something like that obviously from people that have never read the NORAD converstaions and exactly how incompetent government departments can be at times.

its funny. if any of these CTers actually ever worked in a department they'd realise how its just not possible for them to pull off something of this scope (with the literally THOUSANDS of things that could go wrong) without getting caught.

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