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-- Keyed tunes for Harmonic mixers
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quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin is there a link to this theory?

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...fo&userid=22345

Yea I was under the assumption I could only mix to thing next to what I was at on the wheel.

i.e, "To select a compatible key from any origin keycode, choose a keycode within one number of your original keycode. THAT'S IT! If you are in keycode 9, you can select an 8, 9 or 10. If you are in keycode 4, you can select a 3, 4 or 5. If you are in keycode 12, you can select an 11, 12 or 1."

Yeah but you can try so many things, and read so many different things about harmonic mixing, but it all comes down to what sounds good really.. even some of the big dj/producers mix off key sometimes but they do it in a way that they know will sound good probably because of their musical knowledge and stuff.

Plus lets face it, creativity is what we all want to hear in dj sets.. a whole set of +1 -1 etc would be boring as hell, wouldn't go anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Plus lets face it, creativity is what we all want to hear in dj sets.. a whole set of +1 -1 etc would be boring as hell, wouldn't go anywhere.

Tell that to any musician and he may scoff at you. Music in key is harmonic.....if its not then its discordant simple as that.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Plus lets face it, creativity is what we all want to hear in dj sets.. a whole set of +1 -1 etc would be boring as hell, wouldn't go anywhere.

I don't think all sets like this owuld be boring.

They could be boring, buty you can listen sets like this that are truly amazing.

Im talking about sets without ANY of those key lift type mixes +7 & +2 etc

996vtwin.. thats my opinion, dont be so sensitive ,maybe i should have said "I" not "we all" but w/e

quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin Tell that to any musician and he may scoff at you. Music in key is harmonic.....if its not then its discordant simple as that.

Plus your not understanding what im saying.. a harmonicly programed set does not have to abide by the +1 -1 mixing all the way through. If that's what you think then your sadly mistaken.

Guys,

Not worth argueing about, you are both right and wrong.

Yes a set would be boring if it was all -1 +1 but tune selection plays a big part so you could change the mood by track types too. But overall would not carry as much energy as a varied set.

The word Harmonic is somewhat incorrectly applied to this type of mixing if you think of it in music theory terms. Root Note mixing would be more appropriate but sounds crap.

When you think of musicans, they are often playing chords or notes in a scale. You have all sorts of rules like pitch axis theory and things that can sound intentionally clangerous (Like Slayer and Kerry King guitar solos).
What a DJ does is very different as he takes the finished package and mixes it where as a musician has more freedom as he can decide each individual note to be played. (Captain obvious statement of the day but hey). What ever way you look at it it's not the same as DJing.

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And now for something completely different.
If you have ever wondered if the elite understand this then you will find that they are as confused about it as the rest of us.

Eddie Halliwell in his second Bosh CD for Mixmag is quoted as saying that he does key changes etc. The problem is that he actually mixes key change tracks as if they actually work together. The result is quite minging!

As a side note, I'm not sure if you guys have heard any young Hard House DJs? You will often find them a poor example of using keys as they will always drop down a key. Great for bringing a crowd down and sapping their energy.

Cheers
Nem

Can people post what kind of strategies they use in creating mixes/playing in venues in terms of what key they use?

I know that bmp is very important and you should work on raising and lowering those to change the mood/speed but does they key slowly build up the whole night?

Personally it all depends for me. For example Armin ASOT2006 album it sounds all in key and it sounds damn good. Listen to Airwave Trilogique, again all in key . The albums sound like one long song.

Recently I have been paying attention to some local Dj's play trance out of key and it just dosent flow IMO the way I would like it to. But thats just my opinion. Of course you can change key here and there but to go all over the place may change the mood and break the feeling. Trance should be a higher state or hypnotism if you will. Not only one song should do that but the whole set/album should. In a club I guess it matters less where the energy is already high and people only want big toons.

quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin Personally it all depends for me. For example Armin ASOT2006 album it sounds all in key and it sounds damn good. Listen to Airwave Trilogique, again all in key . The albums sound like one long song. Recently I have been paying attention to some local Dj's play trance out of key and it just dosent flow IMO the way I would like it to. But thats just my opinion. Of course you can change key here and there but to go all over the place may change the mood and break the feeling. Trance should be a higher state or hypnotism if you will. Not only one song should do that but the whole set/album should. In a club I guess it matters less where the energy is already high and people only want big toons.

I agree with you on this.

Just as hip-hop may be one of the worst styles for harmonic mixing, trance may be one of the best styles for harmonic mixing. With consistent song structure and without competing vocals, harmonic mixing of trance allows virtually unlimited layering that can create new musical tapestries with minimal effort.

http://www.dancerecords.com/search.php

Can someone listen to this sample and confirm the key for me?

Freza & Dj Flash - Kalimba

Im thinking its iether Gm (6A) or Dm (7A)

Thanks.

Edit: just type in the quicksearch "Kalimba"

Will someone please take a listen, i need to record this in a set

I have that as an F#m. The Freza mix.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I have that as an F#m. The Freza mix.

Thank you.

Just wonderin' what's the ideal way to go around the wheel if you want to slowly build up energy....none of that quick mixing stuff with 4 keycodes up and all that. I mean am I right in thinkin' that clockwise would be uplifting or does it matter at all?

quote:

Originally posted by airmartin Just wonderin' what's the ideal way to go around the wheel if you want to slowly build up energy....none of that quick mixing stuff with 4 keycodes up and all that. I mean am I right in thinkin' that clockwise would be uplifting or does it matter at all?

That's not really a question of the mixes you do but the type of music you play.
Tune selection plays a much bigger part in that than the actual keys.

There is no particular way but have a go at going down the numbers, but think more about the music you are playing. This isn't the only way you can do it but you seriously have to be more focused on the music than that actual way in which you mix harmonically to do that.


Keep an open mind to what energy is as well as you will sometimes find that you feel a track just rocks, but you play it at the wrong time or to the wrong crowd and it will flop. Although it is important to understand what makes you feel less and more energetic first.

Cheers
Nem

I played a perfect harmonic set last night and crowd pretty much hated it. Oh well. I guess they only love the big TOONZ lol. Fuck them I say.

Anyway back to my question I have a track that could be either
A minor or A major. They sound so very close but how can i tell them apart. Also using the camelot system A minor is 8A and 11B since accordig to the wheel they are not compatible so is it really important to get it right or does A minor go with something that A major can too?

quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin I played a perfect harmonic set last night and crowd pretty much hated it. Oh well. I guess they only love the big TOONZ lol. Fuck them I say. Anyway back to my question I have a track that could be either A minor or A major. They sound so very close but how can i tell them apart. Also using the camelot system A minor is 8A and 11B since accordig to the wheel they are not compatible so is it really important to get it right or does A minor go with something that A major can too?

Some electronica tracks are so melodically challenged that they could be considered A-Minor or A-Major with equal validity. Such tracks usually have just one or two indentifiable tones, but no real melody. They have "no third," which is essential is distinguishing between an A-Major and an A-Minor.

When mixing tracks with actual melody, an A-Major and an A-Minor have different
mix regions. An A-Major, as a 4B, can mix into keycodes 3 to 5. An A-Minor, as an 8A, can mix into keycodes 7 through 9. They have no common ground.

BTW: With proper planning, a modulation mix is often useful between an A-Major and an A-Minor, for example. This advanced technique is covered in our basic harmonic mixing website.

thanks. so to distinguish whether it is A minor (8A) or A major (11B) I can use the piano lets say on rapid evolution software which is quite accurate and try to get to where the melody is and play an octave higher? Because the intro part with the base or kick both sound quite similiar.

quote:

Originally posted by 996vtwin thanks. so to distinguish whether it is A minor (8A) or A major (11B) I can use the piano lets say on rapid evolution software which is quite accurate and try to get to where the melody is and play an octave higher? Because the intro part with the base or kick both sound quite similiar.

You might wish to pose that question on the [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
website. Have you used key detection software?

hey everybody!

wow i can't believe this thread is STILL going ;-) but i'm glad to see so much interest in harmonic mixing...

just wanted to mention that i've been improving online harmonic/key database on mixshare.com so you can now add songs again over the web. there have been over 600,000 submissions to date, so there's a lot of info there!

feedback is appreciated (for best response please post on the mixshare forum).. one of my main focuses is cleaning up all the data and merging duplicate songs that people have entered in different ways, but it still should be a good way place for people to check for key info.

Hey Qualia I love your program and your harmonic mixing software has changed the way i listen and play music. Your program seems to have have the best key detection since I compare it to mixed in key. I did have a bit of problems installing it but after changing the .zip file to .jar all went well. There should be a tutorial on this since your newest version is not offered on the launcher link. Goodluck and thanks.

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