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-- Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War?
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quote:

Originally posted by venomX Further proving the point that they regard themselves as being worth more than other people. Two soldiers for 400 civilians is ridiculous any way you spin it my friend. Keep erasing them villages, you're just feeding the fire.

You don't see the correct equation IMO. The IDF actions are not revenge, it never was 2 = 400.
the purpose of this action is to eliminate the immidiate threat that is posed by Hizbulla.
A bright day started with rockets shot at northen Israel, 2 soldiers kidnapped and 8 killed while attacked also with anti-tank rockets.
If Israel would have accpted it as is, what would prevent it from happening again and again?
This is the main cause of Israel's response, not revenge,
and not a death toll eqution!
Please believe me that 99% of Israelis feel really bad about innocent Lebaneese killed. However, success in current actions may prevent the deaths of much more people of both sides in the future, which may happen if this fanatic organiztion with brainwashed militants keeps to gather more and more power.

Maybe the military actions won't achieve this goal... but maybe it will actually save much lives in the future.

Israel and Lebanon truly can live in peace, you can see it by listening to current reactions in the Lebaneese goverment against the Hizbulla. The war is against Hizbulla and for a better future for peacful people, not a revenge.

quote:

Originally posted by Flotser the purpose of this action is to eliminate the immidiate threat that is posed by Hizbulla. Israel and Lebanon truly can live in peace, you can see it by listening to current reactions in the Lebaneese goverment against the Hizbulla. The war is against Hizbulla and for a better future for peacful people, not a revenge.

I agree to your point as a civilian, thats how it is made to look; that we are destroying Hizbollah, we are after Hizboolah...etc; but you have to admit that your govt. is not actually after Hizbollah, but took it as an excuse to destroy a prospering country back to 50 years back. Hizbollah is in South Lebanon. How would you justify total anihiliation of a country? Like this:

-55 out of 56 bridges destroyed
-international airport destroyed
-the whole south of beirut turned to rubble
-over 800,000 people displaced
-over 400 innocent civilians killed (over 30% children and two thirds of them familes)
-whole villages destroyed.
-Every single major road has been carpeted bombed
-major oil spil causing Enviromental catastrophe
-IDF bombed 40% of Lebanons oil supplies.
-every port bombed
-hospitals bombed
-every petrol station in the south bombed
-thousands of civilain homes destroyed
-red cross amblances bombed

The facts speak for themselves...For what? Hizboolah? The israelis have a lot to answer for. The first being war crimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple -55 out of 56 bridges destroyed

to make it more difficult for Hizbulla to recieve supply of more rockets and weapons. And in first days bridges were bombed to make it more difficult to carry away the kidnapped soldiers.

quote:

-international airport destroyed

same explanation as above.

quote:

-the whole south of beirut turned to rubble

exatcly, only south of Beirut. South of beirut is fully controlled by Hizbulla, their main offices are there and also Nasralla lives there.

quote:

-over 800,000 people displaced

How else you sugest fighting against Hizbulla?

Alot of people in Israel are displaced too. There are 5 more people in our appartment now beacsue our relitives from noth of Israel ran away from the Hizbulla rocket fires.

quote:

-over 400 innocent civilians killed (over 30% children and two thirds of them familes)

I realy don't think all 400 are innocent.

Anyway it is really sad. these are sad consequences of war.
And I don't know if the fact about 30% children is correct.

U.N. official that came to Lebanon said himself that Hizbulla are hiding behind innocent civillians, that is their main tactic.

quote:

-whole villages destroyed.

Are you sure? Even Beit Jabel the main Hizbulla stronghold/village wan't destroyed, and about 9 israeli soldiers were killed there. If the village was destroyed from air, these soldiers were alive today.

quote:

-Every single major road has been carpeted bombed

Again, to make it difficult for Hizbulla to get weapons and rockets supply, and move from place to place.

quote:

-major oil spil causing Enviromental catastrophe

Israel shares almost the same sea shore with Lebanon, so you realy believe this is intentional?

quote:

-IDF bombed 40% of Lebanons oil supplies.

don't know if it's 40%. And this is not a war crime.

quote:

-every port bombed

thats not true, not all ports. if all ports were bombed, so how come there was an ivacuation of foreign cevilians thorugh the sea?

quote:

-hospitals bombed

Thats not true. It is true however that several hospitals in Israel were hit by Hizbulla rockets in the past days. Naharia hospital was hit severly.

quote:

-every petrol station in the south bombed

don't know what it means.

quote:

-thousands of civilain homes destroyed

thousands? give me a break. Hizbulla memebers are civillians too who live in civilian homes. Lots of these homes were used to store rockets and weapons.
and how many civilian homes were destroyed in Israel by Hizbulla rocket fire? several millions of Israelis are under the threat of Hizbulla long range rockets.

quote:

-red cross amblances bombed

proof??


-------------

Why don't we look at list of places that weren't bombed:

- Lebanon goverment and parliment offices.
- Lebaneese army (except a navy base used to attack the israeli ship)
- Parts of Lebanon that are not assosiated with Hizbulla.
- This list is very long.

this abhorrent Israeli State-Sanctioned Terrorism has got to stop!

quote:

Sydney Morning Herald An Israeli air strike killed at least 54 Lebanese civilians, including 37 children, in the southern village of Qana today, police said. It was the bloodiest single attack during Israel's 19-day-old war on Hezbollah. The attack prompted the Lebanese government to cancel a planned visit to Beirut by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said he would hold no negotiations before a ceasefire and officials said they had told Rice to stay away from Beirut until the fighting stopped. Siniora denounced "Israeli war criminals". He demanded an immediate, unconditional ceasefire and an international investigation into "Israeli massacres". Lebanon's premier, Fouad Senioria, said: "There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional ceasefire as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now." The air strike, whose target was not immediately clear, occurred as Rice was in Jerusalem on a mission to persuade Israel and Lebanon to agree on an international force to deploy on the border. Israel's offensive in Lebanon will continue, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told his cabinet today. Israel's air force was unaware that civilians were sheltering in the building, the military chief said. Mothers embraced their dead children in shock today as rescue workers tackled the rubble and dust of buildings flattened by the raids. Rescue workers using only their bare hands searched through piles of debris - all the Israeli raids left behind of the buildings - while distraught women joined in to retrieve the bodies and take them away. A three-storey building in Qana where dozens of displaced civilians were sheltering and several other houses were destroyed in the dawn raid, killing many people in their sleep. Lebanese Red Cross officials in Beirut said rescuers had extracted 38 bodies from the devastated buildings, including 23 children, and seven wounded. At least 17 more bodies were feared to be still under the rubble, seven of them children. Red Cross workers covered the corpse of one dead child with a blanket. A woman in a red-patterned dress lay crumpled and lifeless in the broken masonry. A leg poked out from the rubble nearby. Another child lay dead in the street. Distraught people in Qana screamed in grief and anger amid wrecked buildings as others scrabbled at slabs of concrete with their hands to try to reach people buried in the debris. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/is...4197998127.html

quote:

BBC News: Analysis: A second Qana Massacre? The southern Lebanese town of Qana is known for two events in history, and there could soon be a third as news comes in of rising civilian casualties from an Israeli air strike there. In realms of biblical narrative, some believe it to be the scene of Jesus Christ's first miracle, turning water into wine during the wedding at Cana of Galilee. In modern times, it was the scene of one of the bloodiest events of the modern Arab-Israeli conflict, the Israeli shelling of a UN base sheltering Lebanese civilians 10 years ago. International shock at those deaths - more than 100, and another 100 injured - led to huge pressure for a ceasefire deal bringing an end to Israel's last sustained military operation against Hezbollah militants, codenamed Operation Grapes of Wrath. The Qana Massacre, as it is known in Lebanon, remains a powerful symbol for Lebanese people of what they say is Israel's indiscriminate and disproportionate response to Hezbollah's rocket attacks. 'No accident' Israel still insists the 1996 shelling was an accident and that its forces had a legitimate militant target - a Hezbollah military unit that had fired mortars and rockets from near the Qana base. Then, as now, Israel accused Hezbollah of using the civilian population as human shields when they launched their attacks. However, a UN investigation reported in May 1996 that the deaths at the Qana base were unlikely to have been the result of an accident as claimed by the Israelis. The UN report cited the repeated use of airburst shells over the small UN compound, which sent down a deadly torrent of shrapnel that caused terrible injuries among the unprotected civilians. The UN also noted the presence of Israeli helicopters and a drone in the skies over Qana which must have witnessed the bloodbath. In the current round of Israel's bombardment, Qana has again been in the news - the scene of several incidents, such as the bombing by Israel of two Lebanese Red Cross ambulances and the death of a young Lebanese photojournalist, Layal Nejib, also in an air strike on her car. Looking at the map, it is not hard to see why Qana is never far from the headlines when Israel bombards southern Lebanon. It lies at the northern edge of the Lebanon's southern uplands which border Israel and also at the confluence of five strategic roads in the hinterland south-east of the southern city of Tyre. Qana and the villages surrounding it are a strong pro-Hezbollah area and Israel says it has repeatedly been used to fire rockets over the border about 10km (six miles) to the south. Israeli officials say leaflets had been dropped in the area warning civilians to leave their homes so it could conduct more anti-Hezbollah operations. However, it seems clear that, with the number of civilian cars and convoys which have been bombed on the roads heading to Tyre, many residents chose to ignore the Israeli warnings http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228554.stm

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted umm..nice argument? go read a history book, jews were always hated and never for a good reason. people were just brainwashed by christian and muslim radicals and this still continues today. europe is largely anti-semetic, and this is rising, probably due to the rising muslim population in europe.

Give me a break. Open a history book? I already have. You should just stop with your generalizations. People don't hate others for no good reason... you're basically trying to argue that people are born jew-haters. And "never for a good reason" is how YOU see it. I mean take for example... jews killed jesus. Now I'm no religious person, but some people might take that personally that the head of their religion was killed by.. well another religion. Or how about the lebanese that were rioting in front of the UN recently. I don't think ALL of them had beef with Israel; a new generation is going to grow up "hating jews" because of what happened when they were young. So your accusations of unfounded bigotry is not true. But that's not to say that it doesn't exist... just that it doesn't exist in all cases.

Furthermore, Europe is not anti-semitic. There are people in Europe who are anti-semitic. Some are pro-israeli and my guess is the majority really doesn't give a shit.

So this is a message out to those people who post the "why does everyone hate us" articles... it's bullshit. Please don't victimize yourselves... Me personally, I disagree with Israel and its actions. Does that make me a jew hater? I want to know.

quote:

Originally posted by psychosomatica I disagree with Israel and its actions. Does that make me a jew hater? I want to know.

No matter what you say in regards of Israel somhow they will twist everything to make you look as if you are anti-semetic.

i cant believe no one is stopping Isreal..ESPECIALLY the U.S....hmmmm I WONDER WHY

quote:

Originally posted by FastFashion i cant believe no one is stopping Isreal..ESPECIALLY the U.S....hmmmm I WONDER WHY

Yep, thats whats making me more sick with this whole situation. My countrys govt cries about terrorism but is supporting Israel which is #1 in state sponsored terrorism.

yup the jews killed jesus, you really are an idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer No matter what you say in regards of Israel somhow they will twist everything to make you look as if you are anti-semetic.

WORD!!

I am against Israel's policy, but whenever someone protests against it or opposes it; Israel make it look like we are against their race or something.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple WORD!! I am against Israel's policy, but whenever someone protests against it or opposes it; Israel make it look like we are against their race or something.

Purple, that would be because you are against their race.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple WORD!! I am against Israel's policy, but whenever someone protests against it or opposes it; Israel make it look like we are against their race or something.

It's because they live in the past, they haven't overcome their past and have developed nasty complexes. All these war in the middle east are the result of people continuing to look at the past instead of trying to build a better future regardless of who did what to who two thousand years ago. Seriously.

I blame religion for all this.people need to grow some brain and realize that it is the stupid religion that is killing people.


Can you imagine a world without religion?

no to be honest, what would people have to blame their problems on then?

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer I blame religion for all this.people need to grow some brain and realize that it is the stupid religion that is killing people. Can you imagine a world without religion?

For once I have to agree with you. I've been a suporter of Israel and I have been defending its actions. In light of recent events, as a parent (not a Jew or person sympathetic to Israelis), as a human being I am appaled at the outcome of this nonsense!

I hate Hizzbulah for purposely fighting as cowards, hiding among civilians. I equally hate Israel now for their ineptitude in dealing with this conflict.

I have a four year old son and L-d forbid something happened to him. With all of my anger and fury, I'd dedicate the rest of my life and lay it on the line to avenge him. If I was an Israeli, who's family or loved ones were killed by Hizzbulah's rocket - I'd be on a mission to get me some kills. I don't care if they were Arab, Chinese, Russian, American - I'd look for a target and kill it - even if it meant my life.

I cannot watch the pictures of the devastation on both sides - people carrying bodies, children bloodied from explosions, THE FUCKING NONSENSE HAS TO FUCKING STOP! Don't these people have children of their own? Don't they care for anything more than their own agenda? (I'm talking about Hizzbulah). And Israelis - how can you make such gross mistakes? First - it's UN observers. Now, it's women and children.

My heart bleeds. My soul hurts. I am a strong person but I have tears in my eyes. I hate fucking radicals - be their of Jewish, American, Arab, or other nationality and origin.

I pray for innocents on both sides. Evil begets evil. STOP THIS MADNESS! STOP THE MURDERS! I am appaled. sad. angry. speechless. destroyed.

I would have said "May G-d protect us all" but it looks like he took a long vacation. I'm off to mourn innocent loss of life on both sides.

FUCK HIZZBOLAH FOR INSTIGATION AND HIDING AMONG CIVILIANS! FUCK ISRAEL/IDF FOR THE MURDERS OF THE INNOCENT!

quote:

Originally posted by Purple WORD!! I am against Israel's policy, but whenever someone protests against it or opposes it; Israel make it look like we are against their race or something.

What exactly is an Israeli race, you retard? Israel has Jews, Christians, Armenians, Jordanians, Arabs, Turks, and other people of other origins. Don't hide behind words - just say it, you fucking chicken shit motherfuckker - I HATE JEWS, that's what you want to say, ain't it you purple kunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Goashem no to be honest, what would people have to blame their problems on then?

Since i cant really tell if your being sarcastic, and you used the word to be honest, i believe people should start looking at theirselves. If you keep atributting your problems to someone else, your never going to be able to solve them because its not your fault its someone elses. If its your fault then you can do something about it.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX Since i cant really tell if your being sarcastic, and you used the word to be honest, i believe people should start looking at theirselves. If you keep atributting your problems to someone else, your never going to be able to solve them because its not your fault its someone elses. If its your fault then you can do something about it.

Again, playing a devil's advocate - it's hard to look at your problems when your circumstances are controlled by another entity. If you don't have a job because your country lacks the infrastructure, order, and some system to ensure your welfare and you have people with their own agenda whispering "if it wasn't for israel, we'd all have mercedeses and swim in pools filled with gold" in your ear - you're bound to find a target for your anguish.

The world as we know it is not controlled by people. It's controlled by individuals. Those individuals, who really hold the reins - who influence global politics, wars, peace, trade - can probably be counted with only the digits on your hands and feet.

Those individuals are responsible for pushing their own agenda or agenda of those close to them. Ultimately, people would not care about one another's existance if it did not intervene with their own well being. A person who doesn't have anything and sees his neighbor prosper - if he thinks that neighbor is propspering at his own expense, will definitely at the very least hold a grudge. in more sever situation - act.

People are crowd animals. Most of whom are very well armed and skilled at killing one another. Those lacking the skill, can be quickly brought up to speed and participate in fun activities almost immediately after five minutes worth of training.

so, either way we look at it - we're fucked. Just say "Mooooo".

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Again, playing a devil's advocate - it's hard to look at your problems when your circumstances are controlled by another entity. If you don't have a job because your country lacks the infrastructure, order, and some system to ensure your welfare and you have people with their own agenda whispering "if it wasn't for israel, we'd all have mercedeses and swim in pools filled with gold" in your ear - you're bound to find a target for your anguish. The world as we know it is not controlled by people. It's controlled by individuals. Those individuals, who really hold the reins - who influence global politics, wars, peace, trade - can probably be counted with only the digits on your hands and feet. Those individuals are responsible for pushing their own agenda or agenda of those close to them. Ultimately, people would not care about one another's existance if it did not intervene with their own well being. A person who doesn't have anything and sees his neighbor prosper - if he thinks that neighbor is propspering at his own expense, will definitely at the very least hold a grudge. in more sever situation - act. People are crowd animals. Most of whom are very well armed and skilled at killing one another. Those lacking the skill, can be quickly brought up to speed and participate in fun activities almost immediately after five minutes worth of training. so, either way we look at it - we're fucked. Just say "Mooooo".

Its a grim way to look at things, but due to my personna i dont buy the were doomed and cant do anything aboutit theory. Things are like they are atm precisely because people believe this is the truth. Gone are the days where people understood that the only way to make change was to take action in their own hands. I have no pity for people that sit by idly, wherever they may be. Everyone in the end shall reap what they sow, and my point is that Israel, with it current actions will only reap negative things.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX Its a grim way to look at things, but due to my personna i dont buy the were doomed and cant do anything aboutit theory. Things are like they are atm precisely because people believe this is the truth. Gone are the days where people understood that the only way to make change was to take action in their own hands. I have no pity for people that sit by idly, wherever they may be. Everyone in the end shall reap what they sow, and my point is that Israel, with it current actions will only reap negative things.

War is never "nice and polite way of sorting things out". That's why it's called "War". However, if my memory serves me right, Israel did not originally kidnap lebanese people and then made rediculous demands.

And if you think it's disproportionate, look at all the wars - I don't think that ever in the history of the humans, before WWII, did countries at war had any consideration for civilian life. this Politically Correct, Media-ready wars never existed. The more people you killed (soldiers or innocent) the more victorious you were considered. The bottom line to war is this - win by any means. and anyone who thinks that what's happening in Lebanon is an "operation" is full of shit. It's a WAR. It doesn't have to be officially declared nowdays, you know.

And for all the kunts, especially from UK, America, and other "Allies" countries - chanting as to how disproportionate the response is, I got one word for you: DRESDEN

Baroque city destroyed, estimated 25,000 - 35,000 dead (if not more).

So, just shut the fuck up.

War defined:

"War is a conflict involving the organized use of weapons and physical force by states or other large-scale groups. Warring parties usually hold territory, which they can win or lose; and each has a leading person or organization which can surrender, or collapse, thus ending the war. Until the end of World War II, participants usually issued formal declarations of war.

Other terms for war, often used euphemistically, include armed conflict, hostilities, and police action (note). A time when no formal war is taking place, although there may be international and internal tensions, is called peacetime or peace.

Wars usually take the form of a series of military campaigns between two opposing sides involving a dispute over, amongst others issues, sovereignty, territory, resources, religion, or ideology. A war to liberate an occupied country is called a "war of liberation"; a war between internal factions within a state is a civil war."

quote:

Originally posted by psychosomatica Me personally, I disagree with Israel and its actions. Does that make me a jew hater? I want to know.

With whom actions are you agree ?
or you all saying that Israel started all this shit?

Israel wont (& I hope that not ) stop till Nasralla will be dead, after all these years it's about time !
He is the responsable for all the dead ppl from Israel & Lebanon , he need to pay for it. Don't you think ?

quote:

Originally posted by cluBBer With whom actions are you agree ? or you all saying that Israel started all this shit? Israel wont (& I hope that not ) stop till Nasralla will be dead, after all these years it's about time ! He is the responsable for all the dead ppl from Israel & Lebanon , he need to pay for it. Don't you think ?

+1 I also don't think that any openly-practicing muslim Arab in Israel would be killed just for being Muslim, even if he wore his turban, beard, and held Qua'ran under his arm. Now, what would you call a Jew venturing into secular arab territories, wearing Star of David on his neck? I'd call him "Suicidal". He would not make it our alive. They'd kill him and televise it across the globe. You'd probably see an Al Jazeera reporter next to him, as he's about to be executed.

"This is Farouk Ali bin Ahmat reporting from downtown Teheran, where one of filthy Jewish zionists is about to be executed for being a Jew. This segment has been brought to you by Iranian Lobby Group for Peaceful Nuclear Technology"

Difference between Jews and Arabs? Jews want to live in peace. Arabs want Jews to be erradicated. Any differences pop up?

quote:

Jews want to live in peace. Arabs want Jews to be erradicated.

I don't understand why ppl can't understand it.
It seems like that they just don't want to! They just prefer to blame Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX I wonder if you really believe Israel is the only country with nukes in that region. I mean, let's take the hypothetical scenario that Israel launches it's nukes to Iran because they cannot fight a conventional war with such a big enemy. Ok, they erase Iran from the map. What do you think the other arab countries are going to do? Just sit there and let them get away with it? Or attack with all their available resources completely erasing Israel from the map? Pakistan has nukes. India has nukes. Heck if i were China and Russia i would feel threaten of a small ass country touting their nukes around like that. I can tell you this much, if Israel launches their nukes, they sign an agreement to be wiped out of this earth. And i can tell you this much, even one nuke that they launch would create a situation in which they won't survive. Now thats from a strategic point of view, let me give you another angle now. Im asuming that the Israelis have half a brain and know that nukes leave radioactive waste and that that waste goes into the atmosphere. Consider how many nukes it would take to eliminate Iran or Saudi Arabia, at least a couple of dozen. Now, how much radioactive waste would that leave in the environment? And for that matter, Israel is not very far away from Saudi Arabia or Iran, so that radioactive waste is bound to get to their country eventually. Now you tell me who in their right mind, with such grim outlooks, would do such a thing as launch those nukes? I mean, im assuming they have half a brain, but maybe i should just be bunching them up with the Hezbollah nuts. EDIT: If anyone need a little help comparing sizes, check my post here link

Meh. You're probably right. That's why I hope any sort of nuclear penis waving never happens over there.



But if you look on the bright side. If Israel does decide to evaporate a few Arab countries, and in return, Israel itself gets evaporated...

...there goes a big thorn in the world's side at the moment.





In my perfect world. I would have attained 4 high-yield nuclear weapons. And targeted them to these locations:

1. Jerusalem
2. Nazareth
3. Mecca
4. The Vatican

I know it's sort of a silly fantasy. And more than likely it would cause more harm than good. But I can't help but wonder "what if these holy sites which have been the source of so much chaos for hundreds of years just ceased to exist?"

Would people begin to think that worldly concrete objects and places are not as important as true spirituality?

I don't know.

about the Qana incident:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...3283816,00.html

I don't think IDF is responsible.

quote:

IDF continuing to check difficult incident at Qana village, and attempting to account for strange gap between time of the strike on the building - midnight - and eight in the morning, when the building collapsed ... "The attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear," ... The IDF believes that Hizbullah explosives in the building were behind the explosion that caused the collapse. Another possibility is that the rickety building remained standing for a few hours, but eventually collapsed. ... Brigadier General Eshel explained that "since the start of fighting in Lebanon 150 rockets from a very high number of rocket launchers have been fired from the village and its surrounding areas, at a number of sites in the State of Israel.

and as usual, the world leaders jump at the opportunity to blame Israel.

edit: a video that shows rocket launches from Qana to Israel (shot by IAF)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhx2ZT0gTA

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