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-- Keyed tunes for Harmonic mixers
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quote:

Originally posted by Simcut I cant be bothered to read all 80 pages of this lol, but don't you guys think it would be a great idea to have a website with all of the keys listed on it? perhaps we can start something on this? can the thread starter PM me ? Thanks

There is already a website were you can find the keys.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


And this thread it's beyond it's title "Keyed tunes for Harmonic Mixers".

this is not only to show the key of songs, it's to explain and discuss how harmonic mixing works.

hey guys,

i apologize if this has been mentioned already, but has anybody gone so far as to determine the exact modes of their songs? what i mean is, right now everybody assumes a song is either major or minor, but doesn't distinguish the type. the most common major is ionian, but there is also the mixolydian mode (lowered 7th), the lydian mode (raised 4th) and lydian-flat7 for instance. on the other hand, the most common minor is aeolian (i.e. natural minor), but there is also the dorian mode (raised 6th) and phrygian (lowered 2nd)... these slight variations have subtle implications on finding harmonically compatible matches. there are parts of the mixshare wiki that talk about this, but since everybody seems to like the keycode system, i've boiled it down to essentially raising or lowering a song's effective key by one keycode (if you look at what notes are used versus tonal center). it works like:

- Mixolydian (-1)
- Phrygian (-1)
- Dorian (+1)
- Lydian (+1)

there are other modes too but this is just the beginning...

i was curious and went ahead and altered rapid evolution's key detection algorithm to detect these variations/modes, it might be of interest to the folks here... i've already found songs that definitely use these modes. interestingly, this has also improved the key detection accuracy slightly but that's beside the point ;-) the real question here is, are there a significant number of songs that use these modes and could this help explain why certain songs might sound good or bad that's not dictated by the current harmonic theory?

as an example, D# minor (2A) and F minor (4A) normally are not compatible (according to the Camelot system). however, D# minor dorian and F minor phrygian actually share the same scale notes, so i'd think they'd be a reasonable harmonic match. conversely, if you had a song in C major lydian, due to the raised 4th (F# versus F) i doubt it would sound compatible with F major as normally dictated by Camelot theory...

so what do you all think? anybody on this level yet? :-) wanted to get a discussion started before i start adding this kind of logic/theory into rapid evolution...

I don't knwo about this, but it sounds interesting.

I would like to know more about this.


Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by qualia hey guys, i apologize if this has been mentioned already, but has anybody gone so far as to determine the exact modes of their songs? what i mean is, right now everybody assumes a song is either major or minor, but doesn't distinguish the type. the most common major is ionian, but there is also the mixolydian mode (lowered 7th), the lydian mode (raised 4th) and lydian-flat7 for instance. on the other hand, the most common minor is aeolian (i.e. natural minor), but there is also the dorian mode (raised 6th) and phrygian (lowered 2nd)... these slight variations have subtle implications on finding harmonically compatible matches. there are parts of the mixshare wiki that talk about this, but since everybody seems to like the keycode system, i've boiled it down to essentially raising or lowering a song's effective key by one keycode (if you look at what notes are used versus tonal center). it works like: - Mixolydian (-1) - Phrygian (-1) - Dorian (+1) - Lydian (+1) there are other modes too but this is just the beginning... i was curious and went ahead and altered rapid evolution's key detection algorithm to detect these variations/modes, it might be of interest to the folks here... i've already found songs that definitely use these modes. interestingly, this has also improved the key detection accuracy slightly but that's beside the point ;-) the real question here is, are there a significant number of songs that use these modes and could this help explain why certain songs might sound good or bad that's not dictated by the current harmonic theory? as an example, D# minor (2A) and F minor (4A) normally are not compatible (according to the Camelot system). however, D# minor dorian and F minor phrygian actually share the same scale notes, so i'd think they'd be a reasonable harmonic match. conversely, if you had a song in C major lydian, due to the raised 4th (F# versus F) i doubt it would sound compatible with F major as normally dictated by Camelot theory... so what do you all think? anybody on this level yet? :-) wanted to get a discussion started before i start adding this kind of logic/theory into rapid evolution...

Definately,

But I would stress that whilst this is great information the actual quantity of people who are at a musical level where they can detect scales is probably quite limited.

However for those that are interested, another thing that you may also want to look at is pitch axis theory. This can also create some interesting mix oportunities.

If you were to key using the above scales it's actually not as complicated as it sounds, to get started you would still need to detect the root note, find out if it's major or minor as the major and minor scales have slightly different notes in them and then once that is established you would need to play the scale along with the song or better still pick out the melody as this would tell you almost certainly which scale it's in.

The downside of this is that for the novice it can be quite tough to do this and requires a lot more practice and may not be practical for someone who just wants to sound pretty good when mixing.
But the oportunities change infinately.

Something also to remember that if a root note is the same i.e. tonic you can usually still mix basslines together unless it has a particular pattern based on the scale, but often in trance that isn't the case for intro and outro.

Cheers
Nem

yep, pitch axis theory is actually kinda related to all this, as it dictates which chords sound good and accompany each mode. the scale notes are generally the notes from which chords and chord progressions are formed, so i would think that knowing the exact mode of a song is like knowing more about the chords it uses... but i agree, this is definitely for the more seasoned harmonic mixer, and hard to hear at first

and to bring up a side point. i've found that as my knowledge of music theory increases, it is easier for me to accompany a song say, on a piano or synthesizer, as i can form chords and melodies that are in key and sound good. in fact, for me lately it's almost more enjoyable to jam along on an instrument than it has been to find compatible songs and mix them in with the turntables. i wonder as more djs pay attention to harmonic mixing and music theory if we'll start to see more djs who not only mix records but also accompany and add their own bit of flair with an instrument? or am i the only one who does this ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by qualia yep, pitch axis theory is actually kinda related to all this, as it dictates which chords sound good and accompany each mode. the scale notes are generally the notes from which chords and chord progressions are formed, so i would think that knowing the exact mode of a song is like knowing more about the chords it uses... but i agree, this is definitely for the more seasoned harmonic mixer, and hard to hear at first and to bring up a side point. i've found that as my knowledge of music theory increases, it is easier for me to accompany a song say, on a piano or synthesizer, as i can form chords and melodies that are in key and sound good. in fact, for me lately it's almost more enjoyable to jam along on an instrument than it has been to find compatible songs and mix them in with the turntables. i wonder as more djs pay attention to harmonic mixing and music theory if we'll start to see more djs who not only mix records but also accompany and add their own bit of flair with an instrument? or am i the only one who does this ;-)

Nope I love to accompany tracks with side melodies be it chords or even extra melodies. I think it's natural if you are a musician.

cheers
Nem

Hey can somebody help me find the key for this song

Freek Geuze Pres Splitscreen - Boomblasta (Original Mix)

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF275957-01-02-01.mp3

I don't know exactly why but I feel confused when trying to find the key for this song.

Thanks in Advance

Pepa

Don't know about the others here but I put the root note at E. Only sitting with laptop speakers right now though. Had to play with mouse so can't play chords. Found that the B note worked nicely with it as well but E sounds correct at least on these speakers.

Scale used though sounds typical that you might find in a horror movie or something to give it that menace so it's not a straight forward major or minor. As I said, can't play chords at the moment to tell you. Sorry dude.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio Hey can somebody help me find the key for this song Freek Geuze Pres Splitscreen - Boomblasta (Original Mix) http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF275957-01-02-01.mp3 I don't know exactly why but I feel confused when trying to find the key for this song. Thanks in Advance Pepa

Em, with a flatted 2nd scale degree (E phrygian mode). pretty much play all the white keys from E to E. cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Don't know about the others here but I put the root note at E. Only sitting with laptop speakers right now though. Had to play with mouse so can't play chords. Found that the B note worked nicely with it as well but E sounds correct at least on these speakers. Scale used though sounds typical that you might find in a horror movie or something to give it that menace so it's not a straight forward major or minor. As I said, can't play chords at the moment to tell you. Sorry dude. Cheers Nem

Hey thanks for your help Nem
what do you mean with "not straight forward major or minor?

are there more than one keys in this song?

Thanks in Advance

Pepa

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_Blue Em, with a flatted 2nd scale degree (E phrygian mode). pretty much play all the white keys from E to E. cheers

Thank You Very Much =)

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio Hey thanks for your help Nem what do you mean with "not straight forward major or minor? are there more than one keys in this song? Thanks in Advance Pepa

Ah yes I see that you noticed the reply from Omega Blue. He actually got it spot on and better than I could have. But what I meant was that it wasn't your basic minor scale and he hit it on the money. I key using guitar and didn't have one close by at the time. Also never quite trust my laptop speakers as some frequencies just plain disapear.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Ah yes I see that you noticed the reply from Omega Blue. He actually got it spot on and better than I could have. But what I meant was that it wasn't your basic minor scale and he hit it on the money. I key using guitar and didn't have one close by at the time. Also never quite trust my laptop speakers as some frequencies just plain disapear. Cheers Nem

I see, so you mean almost all songs are in Natural Minor Scale?

are this scales
- Mixolydian (-1)
- Phrygian (-1)
- Dorian (+1)
- Lydian (+1)

equal to:
Natural Minor
Harmonic Minor
Melodic Minor
?

Thank YOu Veyr Much for your help

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio I see, so you mean almost all songs are in Natural Minor Scale? are this scales - Mixolydian (-1) - Phrygian (-1) - Dorian (+1) - Lydian (+1) equal to: Natural Minor Harmonic Minor Melodic Minor ? Thank YOu Veyr Much for your help

i'm not nem so i can't speak for him but i think he means that you pretty much only need to worry about it being major or minor. all of the modes are basically variations of the major or minor scale. so, if you have a song in say, Em, and want to mix a tune in E dorian (which is the same as Em, just with a raised 6th) or E phrygian (which is the same as Em, just with a lowered 2nd) it'll sound okay 90% of the time.

the only modes i use for guitar is pretty much dorian and phrygian so i can't really comment about lydian/mixolydian/locrian/etc.

i suppose you could just remember it like this, and correct me if i'm wrong:

Major - should work with lydian, mixolydian.
Minor - should work with dorian, phrygian, and locrian on occasion.


also remember some scales have the same notes as some modes- for example Gmaj has the same notes as Ador-

GABCDEF#G
ABCDEF#GA

so these would most likely compliment each other well. hope that helps.

also it might be useful to know this little tip- any dorian mode starts on the second scale degree of any major scale. for example, G dorian comes from the second scale degree of F major, A dorian comes from G major, etc etc. same notes as the major scale, just starts on the 2nd scale degree instead.

real quick example:

Cmaj
CDEFGABC

Ddor
DEFGABCD

this is exactly the kinda stuff i was talking about (different modes)...

everything omega_blue says is right. if you wanted a summary of the different types of modes and other scales not mentioned here, go here:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


feel free to add to the wiki if there's something missing

Hey Thanks for your help guys
this is awesome info

Cheer =)

Can somebody give me the key of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXXVmKMJvXA

Dirty South - Let it go (Axwell remix)

Thx in advance

Dirty South: Let It Go

Our musician reports "Let it Go (Axwell Remix)' is in B-Minor (10A) at 127 BPM. Here are some other recent 10A tracks between 126-128 BPM from our harmonic mixing database:

10A|126|AUDIOGUYS|ALL YOUR LOVE (SOULFUL DETROIT|
10A|126|ROSE, JESSE|SUGGESTION BOX (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|126|KARIZMA F/DJ SPEN|FOR THE LOVE (OF HOUSE)(VOCAL|
10A|126|SILICONE SOUL|POISONERS DAIRY (EWAN PEARSON)|
10A|126|CARTER, BRAD|LOVE WITH ME (EXT. MIX)|
10A|126|GREEN, VIVIAN|I LIKE IT (L.E.X. MIXES)|
10A|126|GROOVE INJECTION|MADE FOR DANCIN' (ORIGINAL MIX|
10A|126|LES RYTHMES DIGITALES|JACQUES YOUR BODY (CLUB/FULL I|
10A|126|ANANE F/MR. V|LET ME LOVE YOU (CLUB MIX)|
10A|126|FUNKY LOWLIVES|TIME TRAVELLER MAN (FREEFORM F|
10A|126|DJ MEME|PATOLADA (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|126|DANGEROUS MUSE|THE REJECTION (ERIC KUPPER MIX|
10A|126|YOUNG PUNX|ROCKALL (BEN BRAUND REMIX)|
10A|126|FISH GO DEEP F/TRACEY K|THE CURE & THE CAUSE (BALEARIC|
10A|126|RIETSA|COLD SHOWER (DEZROK CLUB MIX)|
10A|126|GREENSKEEPERS|POLO CLUB (D'S VOCABULARY VOX)|
10A|126|BRAND NEW HEAVIES|SURRENDER (GRANT NELSON VOCAL)|
10A|126|TIESTO F/MAXI JAZZ|DANCE4LIFE (SLOWMIX)|
10A|126|DIDDY F/NICOLE SCHERZINGER|COME TO ME (E-SMOOVE CLUB/HOUS|
10A|126|MAMBANA|LIBRE (AXWELL VOCAL MIX)|
10A|126|MARTIN, JUSTIN|THE WATER SONG (ORIGINAL VERSI|
10A|126|FONZERELLI|I LOVE MUSIC (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|126|WILLIAMS, CANDY|HAVE IT ALL (M&S CLUB MIX)|
10A|126|COLLAGE|I'LL BE LOVING YOU|
10A|126|MARTIN, JUSTIN|THE SAD PIANO (JIMPSTER REMIX)|
10A|126|KOBAK, PAWEL|EUPHORIA (INSTRUMENTAL MIX)|
10A|126|RIHANNA|DON'T STOP THE MUSIC (WIDEBOYS|
10A|127|THOSE GUYS|I WALK ALONE (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|127|LOPEZ, JENNIFER|GET RIGHT (LOUIE VEGA)|
10A|127|DEEPGROOVE|LOUDER|
10A|127|SANTOS|TZUMBAE (SUPERCHUMBO REMIX)|
10A|127|MOBY|LIFT ME UP (SUPERDISCOUNT MIX)|
10A|127|HUNTER, RODNEY|TAKE A RIDE (FAUNA FLASH RMX)|
10A|127|NINE INCH NAILS|ONLY (RICHARD X REMIX)|
10A|127|LIVE ELEMENT|SOMETHING ABOUT YOU (VICIOUS D|
10A|127|SHMUEL FLASH & HOPE A|IT'S GONNA BE ALRIGHT (INSTRUM|
10A|127|FAITHLESS|INSOMNIA (BLISS VS ARMAND VAN|
10A|127|REZA|ROCKS MY BODY (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|127|BELANOVA|ME PREGUNTO (MUANGOS CLASSIC H|
10A|127|DEF E (BEGINERZ PRESENTS)|MUSIC HARMONY (MARK WILKINSON)|
10A|127|CAFE GROOVE|WHY YOU WANNA DO ME WRONG|
10A|127|HILTON, PARIS|TURN IT UP (DJ DAN'S HOT TO TR|
10A|127|BAILEY, BONNIE|EVER AFTER (ERICS BEACH MIX)|
10A|127|VASS, DINA & WHIPPED CREAM|NOW I'M FREE|
10A|127|DJ GREGORY|SOLARIS (12" MIX)|
10A|127|FUEL|LET YOURSELF GO|
10A|127|CAFE GROOVE|WHY YOU WANNA DO ME WRONG|
10A|127|HORNBOSTEL, CHRISTINE F/BEVERL|JOY (BOBBY BLANCO & MIKI MOTO)|
10A|127|BARSUK RECORD|FASTER THAN A DEAD PONY (PEPE|
10A|127|DJ DAN|TOCK TO THE RHYTHM (STARKILLER|
10A|127|BROOKLYN KNIGHTS F/KUM MAZELLE|STAND UP (MEYER BROS. REMIX)|
10A|127|DOC DA FUNK|REAL LOVE (E-SQUIRE REMIX)|
10A|127|ROC PROJECT|I'LL NEVER LET YOU KNOW (BASS|
10A|127|DUFF, HILLARY|STRANGER (VISSION VS AUDE MIX)|
10A|127|LOPEZ, JENNIFER|HOLD IT DON'T DROP IT (MOTO BL|
10A|127|DIRTY SOUTH|LET IT GO (AXWELL REMIX)|
10A|128|OCHOA, MARIO|HABLA CON LA LUNA|
10A|128|DAY, INAYA|NASTY GIRL (RAUHOFER RECONSTRU|
10A|128|LOVEFREEKZS, THE|SHINE (EXT. MIX)|
10A|128|SERGINHO F/S. PAPA|CORES DO BRAZIL (HAPPY DUB MIX|
10A|128|KASKADE|EVERYTHING (ORIGINAL EXTENDED|
10A|128|GRASSINIMOTO F/NICOLE SODEN|COSMIC MORSE CODE "B2"|
10A|128|HOLQUIN, TOBY & ARIEL BOUND|NAKED MUSIC "B"|
10A|128|LAND OF VOODOO F/OBA FRANK LOR|SWEAT "B"|
10A|128|ANGEL|LESSONS IN LOVE (COTTO'S)|
10A|128|GEORGIE PORGIE|SUNSHINE (GEORGIE'S ANTHEM MIX|
10A|128|SAWYER, TOM|GOING OUT (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|128|FAITHLESS F/ESTELLE|WHY GO? (REDANKA VOCAL)|
10A|128|BRUNO & LEMOCH|THE SCANDAL (TOM SAWYER REMIX)|
10A|128|CHRISTIAN, CHEYNE|STROBELIGHT HONEY (ORIGINAL MI|
10A|128|STARR, RACHEL|TILL THERE WAS YOU (CREAMER K|
10A|128|DJ SNEAK|INSIDE (JOSH WINK REMIX)|
10A|128|LIL' DEVIOUS|YO LO QUIERO (ORIGINAL MIX)|
10A|128|PEACOCK, ANNETTE|JUST FOR THE KICK (ALBUM VERSI|
10A|128|FALL OUT BOY|DANCE, DANCE (TS BROOKLYN FIRE|
10A|128|LAKE STREET PROJECT|FOREVER (UK CLUB MIX)|
10A|128|EYES OF LOVE|MY LOVE IS YOU (OLD SCHOOL EXT|
10A|128|LAKE STREET PROJECT|FOREVER (JAMIE J.)|
10A|128|WILDE, DUNCAN|I JUST DIED|
10A|128|HILTON, PARIS|TURN IT UP (PETE R DOES PARIS)|
10A|128|CAZWELL|ALL OVER YOUR FACE (GOMI'S WES|
10A|128|JACKSON, JANET|SO EXCITED (BIMBO JONES CLUB E|
10A|128|ATRIUM|IN LOVE WITH YOU (B&K BROKEN V|
10A|128|DAYEENE|AND IT HURTS (SOUL SEEKERZ REM|
10A|128|SALZGER, ROMAN F/TIGER LILY|TURN UP THE SUN (CLASSIC MIX)|
10A|128|NEU:ERA|LETTING GO (B&SK TRIBAL REMIX)|
10A|128|DUFF, HILLARY|STRANGER (JODY DEN BROEDER 86|
10A|128|BAILEY & ROSSKO|EVERYBODY (CLUB MIX)|
10A|128|DEGREES OF MOTION|DO YOU WANT IT RIGHT NOW (MD R|
10A|128|CROSS, BRIAN|SUNNY RAIN (STONEBRIDGE MIX)|
10A|128|DAREY, MATT VS. TALL PAUL F/AL|NO SUBMISSION (EXT. MIX)|
10A|128|JUAN LUIS GUERRA 440|LA TRAVESIA|
10A|128|BUCKETHEADS, THE|THE BOMB (TECHNO BOOTLEG)|
10A|128|MOLDAN, OLIVER, JEROME ISMA-AE|FIVE FIVE ZERO (ORIGINAL MIX)|

Psy Trance, Tech House & Electro House Lists

We just posted some new Psy-Trance, Tech House and Electro House harmonic mixlists in our basic harmonic mixing forum at mixingonbeat.com.

Re: Psy Trance, Tech House & Electro House Lists

quote:

Originally posted by Camelot_Sound We just posted some new Psy-Trance, Tech House and Electro House harmonic mixlists in our basic harmonic mixing form at mixingonbeat.com.

The forum looks neat, I'll definitely check it out.

9 of 20 Top DJs Use Harmonic Mixing

MixedInKey reports that DJ Mag just announced results of their top 100 DJ poll, and that nine of the top twenty use harmonic mixing. Great progress!

Can anyone tell me which key code is associated with A#?

Thanks.

A# = A-Sharp Major = B-Flat Major = Keycode 6B
A#m = A-Sharp Minor = B-Flat Minor = Keycode 3A

I've keyed the majority of my tracks bought this year, I can post up the list of results if anyone is interested. Used mixed in key so might not be 100% accurate...

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