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-- Islamic morality
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hahaha, who gives a shit, do you want me to dig up some torture tools the christians use? all religions are fucking stupid and breed idiots

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Originally posted by tathi hahaha, who gives a shit, do you want me to dig up some torture tools the christians use? all religions are fucking stupid and breed idiots

I agree,but some people here only want to pick on Islam,ffs NO RELEGION IS PERFECT!!

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Originally posted by tathi hahaha, who gives a shit, do you want me to dig up some torture tools the christians use? all religions are fucking stupid and breed idiots

Exactly correct, Many people who live in non-Islamic societies do not fully realize that millions of Muslims go about their everyday lives, void of bloodshed and terrorism, we of course see many of the sorted incidents that take place because that is what the media loves to highlight all the time as it makes Headlines.

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Exactly correct, Many people who live in non-Islamic societies do not fully realize that millions of Muslims go about their everyday lives, void of bloodshed and terrorism, we of course see many of the sorted incidents that take place because that is what the media loves to highlight all the time as it makes Headlines.

Exactly,I have family and friends in Iran,and I lived there myself,Iam not denying that things like that dont happen there,but NOT EVERYDAY!!!they dont just go and pick random woman and hang them in the middle of the city.Plus the justice system is alot different then what we have here.
All Iam trying to say here is that people are living in Iran and doing their everyday lives,and as u mentioned already the media here loves to show those incidents to make headlines,and some people easily believe what they see on CNN.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer What da fuck are u trying to prove here??? why do you always have to bring out the negatives about Islam?? Iam disgusted by your behaviour and your hate toward muslims. You want to dig and find out the dirt about other religions??you think other relegions are perfect?? you are an idiot,and you should get banned for posting someting like this!!you have alot of hate in you dude,take some chill pills.

Feel free to present any christian barbarism of that sort that still goes on these days. There were many christian crimes in the past, but not many are happening now. On the other side, islamic fundamentalism is still flourishing.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 On the other side, islamic fundamentalism is still flourishing.

we know it is there and it is wrong ,but why putting such disturbing pictures on this forum??what good is that going to do??will it solve anything?
I find it very disrespectful,Iam a muslim,and I dont practice,but my grand parents and my father does,and this month is a holy month for all the muslims. Please Have some respect you know?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer I agree,but some people here only want to pick on Islam,ffs NO RELEGION IS PERFECT!!

and what is the main cause for this?
The fundamentalistic radical islamic terror groups.

who wasn't affected by the the 9\11 attacks? who is not despised by the horrible reality that is happening in israel in which young people go and blow themselves up in public places trying to reach the highest number of budies and wounds.(i'm not talking here about occupation or not, all i'm trying to say is that those suicide attacks are all aproved by Islamic Religius leaders).

I think and belivie that islam is a good religion, the problem is the way its interpreted now by the islamic majority, and escpecialy by radical powers like Al-Qaida.

I said it before and I'll say it again ... the only people you convince with pictures are those who are too stupid to read. Without any idea of the context within which those pictures are taken, they are utterly useless. And I'm talking about verifiable, balanced information about the context ... not what some anti-muslim site says.

It's not just islam I'm against, it's all religions.

But I just find it amusing that these things still occur in the Information age.

I mean what kind of a sadist mutilates her own infant son?

But one thing some Persians have against Islam and Arabs in particular is their attacks on our country and culture 1400 years ago. They destroyed our very identity and injected their fithy blood into us. But that was 1400 years ago.

25 years ago our country was taken hostage again. Not exactly by Arabs but Arab-lovers, so same thing. Now it's reached a point where not even the policeforce backs them up. They have recruited people from Palastine and Iraq and trained them to attack demonstrators in the streets in the name of Allah. I've had friends come back from Iran and tell me about it. They slash chests open with Blades. Pull women out of their cars, rape and beat them up. We even have Iraqis holding high posts in the government.

25 years ago we had the fifth largest Army on earth and one of the fastest growing economies. Now the country has been reduced to a Terrorist state that's frowned upon by the international community. You bet your ass I'm full of hate!!!!! Me and a growing number of Iranian youth!

This is fire under ashes. We have a war to fight and it's just heating up!

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Originally posted by Illusion I've said before I'm not really Australian. I'm persian but I've been living here since I was a kid.

So you were raised under Islam?

edit-nevermind

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer and some people easily believe what they see on CNN.

I don't know why you guys seem to have it in for CNN, but it's really one of the more "fair & balanced" American TV news outlets (as opposed to you know who hehe). You can accuse it of having "American bias" but in that same regard, the CBC has "Canadian bias," and the BBC has "British bias." Of course I usually also listen to NPR and read print media (right & left-wing) in addition to watching some TV news media, so I feel that I get a better view of things. Hell I even read Aljazeera sometimes, but of course I keep in mind that it has strong "Arab bias." Much AM radio tends to be filled with hate jocks like Rush Limbaugh however, so it's usually not worth listening to. In fact the local talk radio station in Austin that carries LBJ's name was bought out a few years back, and is now carrying this type of programing. It more or less tars and feathers the name of the man who pushed for the passage of the civil righs act of 1964, and I'm sure he's spinning in his grave.

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz I don't know why you guys seem to have it in for CNN, but it's really one of the more "fair & balanced" American TV news outlets (as opposed to you know who hehe). You can accuse it of having "American bias" but in that same regard, the CBC has "Canadian bias," and the BBC has "British bias."

You know what ... I find that most people who have a problem with CNN don't actually have a problem with CNN. I surf many news channels daily, and I find that CNN is no different from any other news channel with the exception that it does not contain regional/local news reports that those other channels have. Perfectly understandable when one takes into consideration that CNN is probably the most global news network in the world. As a matter of fact, as a subscriber to CNN international rather than CNN US, I find that CNN reports and updates stories far quicker than bbc or reuters ever does. It appears that CNN is simply an easy scapegoat with high visibility therefore it takes much criticism. I'll never forget the time when somebody posted an article from a site with the headline "news you won't find on CNN" and I had read that same exact article from CNN hours before

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=125259

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Originally posted by Illusion It's not just islam I'm against, it's all religions. But I just find it amusing that these things still occur in the Information age. I mean what kind of a sadist mutilates her own infant son? But one thing some Persians have against Islam and Arabs in particular is their attacks on our country and culture 1400 years ago. They destroyed our very identity and injected their fithy blood into us. But that was 1400 years ago. 25 years ago our country was taken hostage again. Not exactly by Arabs but Arab-lovers, so same thing. Now it's reached a point where not even the policeforce backs them up. They have recruited people from Palastine and Iraq and trained them to attack demonstrators in the streets in the name of Allah. I've had friends come back from Iran and tell me about it. They slash chests open with Blades. Pull women out of their cars, rape and beat them up. We even have Iraqis holding high posts in the government. 25 years ago we had the fifth largest Army on earth and one of the fastest growing economies. Now the country has been reduced to a Terrorist state that's frowned upon by the international community. You bet your ass I'm full of hate!!!!! Me and a growing number of Iranian youth! This is fire under ashes. We have a war to fight and it's just heating up!

There is no doubt that such things that you've mentioned does exist in Iran,after all thats why I dont live there and thats my parents thought I'd have a better future here in Canada,and Iam sure many parents feel them same about their children too.I also understand how angry the youth are in Iran.
I really do hope that things do change in Iran,those people deserve to be free like many other nations around the world.
I just dont see the purpose of posting all those picture,making people who dont know much about Islam think that it is a evil religion and people who believe it are some crazy people.
I hate it when people keep bringing that Al Queda and others like them believe in Islam,and they are muslims too.I DONT BELIEVE THAT,and Iam not alone, many of the Arab world and muslims hate groups like that.They have changed the meaning of this relegion to something full of hate and anger and thats not what being a muslim is all about.

As I said before Iam not a religious person,but I respect them and people who believe in them.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer There is no doubt that such things that you've mentioned does exist in Iran,after all thats why I dont live there and thats my parents thought I'd have a better future here in Canada,and Iam sure many parents feel them same about their children too.I also understand how angry the youth are in Iran. I really do hope that things do change in Iran,those people deserve to be free like many other nations around the world. I just dont see the purpose of posting all those picture,making people who dont know much about Islam think that it is a evil religion and people who believe it are some crazy people. I hate it when people keep bringing that Al Queda and others like them believe in Islam,and they are muslims too.I DONT BELIEVE THAT,and Iam not alone, many of the Arab world and muslims hate groups like that.They have changed the meaning of this relegion to something full of hate and anger and thats not what being a muslim is all about. As I said before Iam not a religious person,but I respect them and people who believe in them.

Don't sweat it ... there's not a major religion on the planet that isn't drenched in blood. Except for maybe buddhism. Personally, I don't think that it's the basic foundation of the Muslim religion itself that are the cause of so many problems so much as it is the fact that the structure of the religion is so decentralized. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is simply no ultimate higher power of sorts such as the catholic pope. There are a multitude of imans, and clerics however who each preach a wide variety of different messages ranging from peace driven, non-violence to bloody, indifferent violence whereby none of them are subjugated to a higher power other than God. There are plenty of ultra-fanatical christian sects where a small minority of members take up terrorism, but do they dare to band together into an adhesive group that openly defies all of catholicism and the pope? I think that the fact that there is no central power so to speak is the reason why there is so much violence today .... the full weight of the peaceful muslim world cannot be brought down upon the extremists and therefore they have free reign to do whatever they want.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer I agree,but some people here only want to pick on Islam,ffs NO RELEGION IS PERFECT!!

Not too long ago there was a thread about christian fundamentalists doing weird things against their children to stop them from masturbating. We have also covered christian fundamentalists less than open views on homosexuality - and we have all laughed at their "arguments".
This thread is clearly labelled "Islamic Morality" and hence the topic should be of no surprise. If you want to defend the practices and text passages put forth by Illsuion then do so. If you can differentiate between an attack on these traits of barabarism and an attack on an entire religion, then you could demonstrate that by renouncing the cruel interpretations given by some fundamentalists, and pointing out where they are wrong. However, appealing to pity to make the argument go away won't help your case (respect for Islam).

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Originally posted by occrider Personally, I don't think that it's the basic foundation of the Muslim religion itself that are the cause of so many problems so much as it is the fact that the structure of the religion is so decentralized. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is simply no ultimate higher power of sorts such as the catholic pope. There are a multitude of imans, and clerics however who each preach a wide variety of different messages ranging from peace driven, non-violence to bloody, indifferent violence whereby none of them are subjugated to a higher power other than God.

It depends on which muslim sects you're talking about. The Shiites of Iran and southern Iraq, for instance, are heavily centralised. There's no papal equivolent, obviously, but they're still centralised around a fairly small group of clerics. The Sunni Muslims, on the other hand, are a decentralised people where the clerics don't wield nearly as much power. In either case, I don't think we can say that "decentralisation" is a major cause of the problems in Islam: remember, Protestants are decentralised too (certainly no papal equivolent - in fact it was the rejection of Catholic centralisation that led to the emergence of Protestantism in the first place, hence the name), so why aren't we seeing similar problems throughout, say, the US bible-belt?

From memory, Islam began as a religion with no clerical structure and I believe that this rejection of having a centralised system of "holy-men" is explicitly stated in the Koran or other holy texts (I think this is one of the tennets the Islamic faith borrowed from Jamesean Christianity, the movement that it most likely sprang from). Under this decentralised system, Islamic cultures were able to make progress in the fields of science and medicine while Europe - under Catholicism - was a true cess-pit in comparison. After the crusades, many of these techniques emerged in Europe and helped this region to flourish, while much of Islamic thought and philosophy influenced Catholicism by imparting second-hand knowledge (such as the wisdom of Greek philosophers, long forgotten in Europe, that made Christianity what it is today) and first-hand knowledge (such as Avoerism, more important to Christianity today, in this age of science and reason, than it ever has been). Now I'm not sure when Islam began to tolerate the emergence of clerics in Islamic societies - or whether this idea was borrowed from the Christians - but I do think that there is a correlation between this clerical ascension and the decline of Islamic cultures. When it was decentralised, Muslims could think for themselves and were free to develop knowledge in the fields I mentioned before. Under a centralised system, however, all of a sudden the clerics could (and did) begin to tell people what to do and how to think, completely antithetical to the progress of science and philosophy, but definitely congenial to the emergence of fundamentalism and extremism. So, if anything, I'd argue that it's not Islam's inherent decentralisation that has led to the problems we see today, but rather the adoption of centralisation. There are many other causes as well, of course, but I think this may be one of them.

And the problem is, this fundamentalist extremism is cyclical. If you live in a society in decline and largely led by religious clerics then you're more likely to be led to religious extremism through your disenchantment. As more people are drawn towards this doctrine, society decays even further, yet more people are drawn in and so on and so forth.

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Feel free to present any christian barbarism of that sort that still goes on these days. There were many christian crimes in the past, but not many are happening now. On the other side, islamic fundamentalism is still flourishing.

There still are acts of Christian barbarism, but obviously not on the scale seen in Muslim cultures. I see the Jehova's Witness' ploy of preventing life-saving medical treatment to their children just as barbaric as slicing their forehead with a razor blade. Walking into an abortion clinic and shooting the staff is no less reprehensible than blowing yourself up in a crowded bus. You need to be just as mentally ill to inflict stigmata on yourself as you do to drench yourself in blood during a religious march. Also, it's a largely relative matter: I, for instance see the death penalty is being exremely barbaric. Frying a woman on an electric chair (as in the largely Christian US) is every bit as reprehensible as hanging a woman from the gallows (as in the largely Muslim Iran).

So like I say, extremism would seem to be a more preponderant problem in the Muslim world than in the Christian west, but let's not pretend that the western Christian mentality is any more "immune" to the dangers of religious exremism than that of the Islamic Arab.

kudos to you renegade - you pulled the words right out of my mouth...

I am Muslim myself and have always maintained that the problem these days with Islam is the fact that many people tend to follow what clerics and religious leaders (imams) are telling them to do. Althought the Sunni sect is still technically decentralized the Shariah council in Saudi Arabia has an very influential say in what clerics in the Muslim world do and say. As a result, the words of God have been tainted with political agendas and whatnot. A lot of people have blind faith in what these religious leaders preach and the results are retarding the society instead of pushing it forward.

Having said that I am firmly against any religion that is consolidated through a single authority. If we all just keep our beliefs between us and God this world would be all the more better off.

Good points Renegade.

ya good post renegade, how-ever i want to disagree with you about capital punishment used in the US today as an example of christian barabity. i really belive it has nothing to do with faith but rather it's america's society or culture that is respionsible, not religion.

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Originally posted by Izzy ya good post renegade, how-ever i want to disagree with you about capital punishment used in the US today as an example of christian barabity. i really belive it has nothing to do with faith but rather it's america's society or culture that is respionsible, not religion.

Agreed, but you've opened up a new kettle of fish now.

How do we distinguish between societal/cultural factors and religious factors then? Do these Muslims cut their foreheads because they're Muslim or because they live in Iran? Would they still cut their heads if they weren't a Muslim or if they weren't Iranian?

note - those pictures depict certain Shi'ite rituals I believe... not "Muslim" in general... They make up only 15 percent of the world's Muslim population and evan smaller percentage actually observe those ceremonies...

classic stereotyping at its most effective...

Imagine how much more peace would be in the world if we would have given the Nazis about a year or more then we gave 'em ?

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Originally posted by DJBARON welcome to my world. remember, your on thin ice, keep your lies behind your scaled hands and forked tounge! you speak of the torah??? you enter my world. you will buried alive if you try to start this argument you have no idea what you begin to say the Koran as seen by all today that it is false and has no logic. If we today, with science and rationality look at the koran or many other beliefs of today in fact we see many reasons why they cannot be even close to reality. You say the Torah? you try to compare the world of The Creator with what one of His creations fabricated? namely the Koran? The monotheistic idea of One Creator above all as the muslims believe is valid, but as most things, is based on Judaism from the time period of Mohhamed(sp?). Upon the learning of ancient Jewish law that has remained intact for over 3000 years, one may easily see how the beginning of Mohhameds journey was based on going "steps beyond the original people of the book". For instance, the Jews have Yom Kippur, the muslims created Ramadam. On the holiest day of the Jewish Year, Yom Kippur once again we see the Jews have 5 prayer services over the Holiday, and the muslims wanting to be greater than the Jews, create a holier than thou scenario and make everyday like the holiest day for the Jews! Again we see that The jews are obligated by Hashem to give a set amount of charity each year of our total income (10%) while the muslims do the same thing, [forgot what it is called] and infact it is i believe %2. So we see that in matters of 'service' in matters of connecting to The Creator [Allah] which is the main focus of the Muslims as we see with their insane, non-logical baseless 'martyrdom' that these people are willing to blow themselves up for their Creator [Allah]. This is the total opposite of western society. I clearly see the case of total devotion to a Creator, with its polar opposite of total devotion to self, and vanity, present today in western society. Such boundless frivility is abundant in Western Society today, we find a case where The Creator awakens the idea of devotion and connection to something bigger than ourselves, because after all this world today is full of vanity and loss of purpose and goal. The muslim religion today is a wake up call to many of us. We need to see that there is no way the world will become a melting pot of nothing more than people all focused on getting jobs and making money and watching good tv shows. Muslims today are teaching the world that there is another way, a fanatical screwed up way that is non-sensical and full of a billion holes. What the hell is the this total BS idea of 71 virgins in heaven? What the hell does 71 virgins mean that it is the 'absolutely greatest thing' in the muslim world today? How much BS do these Muslim powerholders speak constantly to pursuade massive groups of people to do their biddings? We find a society today so screwed up, the ones who are able to objectively see this from an outside perspective take note, and learn something from it! CYRUSKING -> You come back already your starting something??? WHAT DOES THE TORAH SAY???? TELL ME. I WANT TO KNOW. THE ONE THING THAT THE MAJOR RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD AGREE ON IS THE THE WORD OF G-D FROM THE HOLY TORAH (translated a few times incorrectly as mentioned in previous posts and verified through internet translators etc -- the bible) The Torah is perfect, and if studied, non-stop revelations in its perfection become more and more abundant. In reality, science as I mentioned before and got messy in that topic, does nothing more to Judaism and Torah than bring additional proof. Science only verify what Torah, Judaism, Kabbalah and just straight up reality is was and will be. I think one of the reasons that Matrix failed so bad is that people failed to believe in this whole concept at the end. (no need to ruin the movie!) Today what is it that the average man walking down the street believe in at the end of the day? NOTHING! sad times ahead, and now I am just shocked at how CyrusKing tries to say anything about the Torah. You open a can of worms son. QUOTE ME EVERYTHING YOU GOT SON! By the way, who thinks in reality there is even a 1% chance that the world as we know it even in 500 years won't face the reality that one pyscho will eventually get a nuke and place it somewhere bad and trigger something? LOL Today we see these pyschotic brainwashed muslims blowing themselves up for 71 virgins (if you have 71 virgins for all of eternity, don't they eventually end up being non-virgins after a set time? therefore eventually after 100,000,000 years you are stuck with the same 71 hags and it is pretty stupid. You sit in 'heaven' with the all mighty G-d and enjoy your share of the 'women' for having killed children and soldiers protecting their country? LOL what kind of G-d is that? If the muslim concept of G-d was so powerful, how is it than that people need to sacrifice themselves? Why not Just have the powerful [Allah] Destroy the Jews? And on the subject, to create multiple issues, in the Original Torah, [Bible] G-d in many places says about how he will never break his covenant with his people. But according to a few deviations from the original Torah, G-d has decided to break his covenant with the original people because G-d made a mistake and they are really not the people, but yes we must do a bunch of rituals (of course reveled to us always from only 1 person, as if G-d can't create a revelation for any more than 1 person to share for an entire nation? - yet judaism is still and will always be the only religion in the world that had A NATIONAL REVELATION at MT. Sinai) So According to anything except the Torah -- And LOGIC of course -- G-d made a mistake, and is thus not perfect. This is than nothing more than idol worship since The concept of the THE CREATOR means THE creator, lacking nothing and totally perfect. for those that ask what than of the people who are not jewish, simple obey the 7 laws of Noah, which can be readily found on the internet (there is a large group called the bnei Noach check out any site of theirs for info, and i encourage on all sections research and discussion, unlike other religions we encourage discussion, research and in-depth study, because at the end of the day, if its not logical its not correct!) websites for bnei noach: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bnei-noach/ even : http://www.google.com/search?source...-8&q=bnei+noach to tie this up, Freedom for everyone to believe whatever they want is great, but today so much death and killing, we must finally stop being wussed out and realize that we are going to suffer if we don't start defining our lives and our purposes for living! Islam is a disease on this planet, it is creating nothing but fear and death around the world, and that is all that it has always done. Bullshit Liberal pussy views are useless because one day unless you grow some hair on those balls, they will be chopped up by someone who has a psychotic brainwashed religion that tells them to kill themselves and take down as many 'non-believers' as possible. Iraq is just a canary bird. Israel is just a canary bird. The muslims begin posting on websites the last few days for the muslims to leave from a few major american cities.... peace with the arabs calling themselves 'palestinians' historically the philisthines were nothign like the modern day arabs claiming right to the land, and under the same logic the arabs in which these leftist dumbshits around the world defend that they need their own country, WHAT ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS? by the same logic they were there first, rightfully and deserve their land back. America signed treaties though right? so the land is theirs? Well Israel through very legal means came to its own establishment, and showed the world through the hand of G-d in all the battles Israel fought which till this day defy logical understandings. Clearly G-d sends us a message, but that is for a different topic! ----> THERE ARE NO ATHIESTS IN A FOX HOLE. <----- ---->A GOOD DEFENSE IS A STRONG OFFENSE<---- lets assume one day that all this Bullshit talk of peace one day ends up someone, somewhere launching a nucular weapon. 3 minutes until impact, do you think that the reciever will just sit there and let itself get massacred? NO. THE SIMPLE PUSH OF A BUTTON WILL END UP ON AN IMMEDIETE RESPONSE, "YOUR GOING TO KILL US, BUT WE WILL ATLEAST KNOW YOU WILL DIE TOO!!! ARRGHHH" does this seem so far from atleast a possibility? we need to realize that while this may be a very distant unrealisitic (why?) possibilty IF that day came, you would all stop your 'there is no g-d' BS and get down and PRAY PRAY PRAY. when your stuck and life is in the balance, I want to see 1 person who does not pray to G-d. to end off --------> CYRUSKING, YOU TRY TO EQUATE THE EVIL IN THE KORAN WITH ANYTHING IN THE TORAH?? PLEASE PROCEED.

what a load of shit, that was really funny

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Originally posted by smokeblender Imagine how much more peace would be in the world if we would have given the Nazis about a year or more then we gave 'em ?

haha shit like that would get you banned

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