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Originally posted by Vigilante It's all good people!!!!! Music is a very subjective thing - each person has different tastes in music. Some people like Trance, some Rap, some rock, some punk, some metal, classical, country, techno.....the list goes on. It disappoints me that people on this forum cannot seem to see this, making claims like "Rap isn't music" and other similar comments. Music takes many contrasting forms, and you should learn to respect that. Also, I think the point needs to be made that what you hear/see on the radio and MTV is different to the "underground" music in different genres. For example, 50 Cent made five/six albums before he became a smash hit, and all of those albums were hardcore "underground" rap, not the mainstream stuff that we heard today. Take the example of "cheese" as people like to call it - DJ Sammy, Scooter, Ian Van Dahl etc. Would people on this forum like Trance to be judged and classified as being like those artists. I THINK NOT. Why is it that people choose to judge other genres of music according to commercial crap that many people would call "cheese"??? Basically, my point is that you should not judge other genres on the commercial songs and artists from those genres, when you would not judge trance in the same way. I think that to do this would be hypocritical, to say the least.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Who wants to join me in burning Eminem on a stake medieval style?

Muhahahahahaha

Eminem - I Love you More

blah blah blah....... u n00bs...

don't u get it? vivid boy gets off watching u guys fight

well the truth is rocco was right i actually made this thread to watch ppl flame...but some of the shit u guys typed is just ridculous especially when u bash a genre that u have no clue on any aspect of it..the rules the formation the history...i think it was cyrus king saying something that tupac relays the message that being a gangsta is a cool thing and to go out and shoot up biggie smalls and his mother is cool...well man i think u got the story totally mixed up number 1 number 2 go watch any tupac documentary or read some of his poems...he wasnt a gangsta there are no gangstas mc's they d be out husstling instead of making music...the only problem why gangsters are incorporated with the music is because these mcs bring these gangstaers around into the studios and so forth... but whatever i guess its all how u take the message or what u listen too

quote:

Originally posted by Rocco blah blah blah....... u n00bs... don't u get it? vivid boy gets off watching u guys fight

...not only the idea is bad ... but then this thread is so lame ...... what a waste of time.

This is the worst-est-est thread ever.

Dizzee Rascal - Jus' A Rascal


wh0rd!!!!



fucking mint!!!

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You are completely lostDo you think its a good thing what commercial HIp shit is spreading, that those messages are positive? I can appreciate the messages underground hip hop has, its lyrics and stuff, but not commercial shit.. You dont know shit about the iimplications that have been caused becuase of this music... kids glorifying TUPAC becuase he is a gangster that likes to shoot up East side "******s" and kill Biggies kids and MOther" What kind of message are these hip hop artists sending to Youth as they promote 'pimpin'.... for fucks sake look at the big picture.. Commercial HIP HOP IS CORPORATE OWNED idiot! THose idiot ex-gang members would be no where wothout the head honchos that control and promote their very existence in this scene. Tell me how commercial hip hop is not VAIN.... you didnt answer that in your post.. alll you could do is whine! And explain to me how the HIP HOP commercial image is a positive one for Blacks? HOW!?!?!? IT IS NEGATIVE AND DISRESPECTFULL.... learn your shit before you spew it out of your mouth

I think your a little bit more lost than I am, actually trying to associate with what's on the radio with actual hip hop. I know my shit, I can honestly say that I have a fair knowledge of hip hop, so.
1. Tupac. He was never a 'gangsta' or hustler. If you really look into his meanings and intentions in his documentaries, lyrics and sleeve note poems, he IS trying to spread a positive message, it's his aggressive, loud spoken delivery is what characterizes him to the media and clueless public as a 'gangsta' and 'thug'.
2. Your telling me I don't know shit about hip hop and it's implications? I'll know my shit before I spit it out, but do us a favor and know who the fuck your talking to before you spit yours. I won't even bother with this one. Just not worth my time defending my stance on hip hop and how it's positive, REAL message has been a focal point in my everyday tasks.
Yeah I do see the big picture, and apparantely what differs between you and me is, that I see the small one too. Not all hip hop HAS to be socially conscious, or political. We can't have 30 Gangstarrs, or a dozen Dead Prez's...remember, hip hop music started out as 'people' music, block rocking party breaks and MCs who speak on issues and personal viewpoints, not a fucking democrat convention or debate, so stop viewing hip hop as a saviour to this world, cuz it can't, won't and will never be. It's music. It's personal.
And you would think after I said what I said, I wouldn't know that commercial hip hop is coroporate owned? Maybe you have the wrong idea of who I am, but I'm not stupid I can assure you that. But yes, again we go back to the topic of big picture vs small picture: take Jay Z for example. Even in one of his songs, he addresses the fact that his money making songs are just that: money making. The rest of his CDs are songs that really convey what Jay does best, not another stash of top 40 club hits.

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And explain to me how the HIP HOP commercial image is a positive one for Blacks? HOW!?!?!?

How bout you cut off the automatic association with hip hop and the word 'black'. You being Mr. Righteous, should know that his association is stereotypical, not to mention the term 'black' denotes skin color not character. Shouldn't that have been obvious to you, Reverend Jesse Jackson?
Imagine if media was centered around promoting good values for youths and whatever you said. I GUARANTEE you that EDM would not have gotten this far, and every hip hop song and or group would be a Will Smith clone...squeaky clean, non violent nursery rhyme party tracks. I'm sure a 6th grader would have no clue what Budden says when he spits:
"Look, sometimes the truth can hurt you//
So I blow smoke right back at the truth commercial."

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Tell me how commercial hip hop is not VAIN.... you didnt answer that in your post.. alll you could do is whine!

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I'm just sick of these half assed attempts to decrypt a musical culture that has become so exploited for the wrong purposes.

You happy? Now go resume your freedom crusade in trying to liberate the blacks that are oppressed.

Lardy namby pamby.

That is all.

CYRUS FOR KING!!!

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It is everything and anything negative inmy eyes, a backwards way of expression that only hurts the image of Black people who have for so long tried to fight the stereotypes that have plagued their lives for centuries. Ironically, it is them who are the perpetrators of this "music culture".

DAYAMN!!! Cyrus you should make a freakin' documentary!!

(Im kiddin...i did see your Ibiza Doc. and it was good...but your a well spoken person who can really convey an idea. Not only do you have strong feelings about this subject, but you are well informed and have done your homework. I hope to see you use this energy towards deconstructing media's warped ideals about this subject. Perhaps a documentary will change peoples outlooks! Good Job Man!)

Dont believe the hype...

After readin' Djohn's last post I realize what Cy was sayin'. Boy, they have freakin' bought and sold Americans (and Canadians?) into believing that shite.
Truth is...there maybe some hip-hop artists trying to be a beacon in that genre - something salvageable or pure, but I think Cy is right on this one. Commercial Hip Hop is doing more damage than the anyone can correct...and they're doing it at a faster rate.

you jokin?

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Tupac. He was never a 'gangsta' or hustler

OMG!! Digital Aura +3!!

actually im not..if u new what a gangsta and a hustla was u would understand tupac was neither...hustler hustles for drugs tupac never sold drugs and never did them cept for weed but who the hell considers weed a drug..a gangsta is usually a person who is part of a gang who rides with gangs...tupac never did cept for death row but they were a music label not a gang...and oh yeah dont let the media fool you he was never a crypt or a blood or anything else...he was never affilihiated with any of them...tupac was himself and thats it thats why he gets so much respect ...cause he didnt have to run with ppl to look big he did what he had to do...if u wanna call him a thug well yeah hes a thug undoubtedly...but then again u probably dont know the definition of a thug either...a thug is basically just a person who grew up in the ghetto...

I listen to all types of music...xcept Country and Heavy Death Metal...so I'm open minded. I like everything.

I dont like rap because it doesnt do anything for me, its doesnt fit my lifestyle. IM happy, im not mad at anyone, i dont need to smoke weed, i dont need to objective women, i dont need to prove my manhood, i dont need to own a gun...like i dont understand hip hop culture...i dont...

And its negative aspects it has placed on society...i wish sometimes it would go away...

Arsondude

This is music discussion... post this on another forum
Maybe on a kid's forum. (where they have 2 stickers on each cheek )

And remember : you can't spel crap without saying rap

eminem - nail in the coffin (instrumental) <-- great stuff

quote:

This is music discussion... post this on another forum

huh? unless you are inferring sarcastically that rap aint music then I don't get it...we're discussin' music.

people need to move on from tupac, he has pretty good lyrics (i looked them up), but most of his songs dont have good beats.

I also listened to snoop dogg - greatest hits and its shit hitting a fan, very crap imo. I dont see how people like his stuff.

Im not much of a rap head anyhow, but i think dre, swollen members and 50cent/g-unit push fairly good beats.

You all bitch about how much you hate it when people call Trance cheesy techno shit, without even having heard it. Then you all go jump on the Hip-hop/Rap bashing bandwagon, without even having heard anything more than the shit MTV pipes in.

Does DJ Sammy/Darude represent all of Trance/Prog/House?
Does Nelly/50 Cent represent all of Hip-hop/Rap?

Now stfu.

That being said, I don't know much about the genre. I like Jurassic 5 and most Outkast stuff, some of The Roots, RJD2, and most of the stuff DJ Shadow plays.

i used to listen to mainstream rap until i realized it sucked. and then got into trance music and the whole nine yards.

but now im starting to listen to some better rap like, jedi mind tricks, aesop rock, atmosphere. gangstarr and a buncha others, definatly dont bash hip hop till youve heard some good songs. some of the rhymes these guys make are pretty fucking unbelivable.

Digital Aura, no I'm not kidding about Pac bot being a thug/gangsta/hustler...you mentioned that Cy did his homework after speaking up, now do yours before you do too...seems like you don't know anything about rap or hip hop. If your basing your opinions after reading Cy's and my post, then I really don't think you have a valid opinion on this subject, although I'm always open to hear others anyways.

quote:

Truth is...there maybe some hip-hop artists trying to be a beacon in that genre - something salvageable or pure, but I think Cy is right on this one. Commercial Hip Hop is doing more damage than the anyone can correct...and they're doing it at a faster rate

Right and that's exactly my point..."underground" hip hop and it's essence is all about that, and more...it's just not limited to trying to save the world. The reason I was responding to Cy was because he was portraying hip hop as a whole as what seemed in his words a decadent culture, overrun by it's MTV facade that we've all come to learn to hate. It's true that the commercial aspect is ruining the state of hip hop, but that's not fair to say that ALL hip hop is going downhill(as some people in this thread continue to say).
Is trance going downhill because the sound hasn't changed for however many years? No. Same with hip hop - associating the commercialized, corporate owned hip hop with it's true roots is the EXACT same as identifying DJ Sammy, Ian van Dahl etc with trance.

but not only that u must remember as well listening to commercial hip hop is just skimming the surface...those are just singles they put out to sell listen to their albums the whole album..even some of these commercial mc's like jayz have incredible albums that have alot more meaning then u give credit for...even eminem albums if u listen to them and get the total meaning ull respect them more...just because they put out these singles abt guns hoes cash rims etc doesnt mean their whole album is like that...in this day and age thats what sells so they make a quick few singles throw it on their album to sell it and the rest of their songs are the real art work which most ppl never get to hear

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy but not only that u must remember as well listening to commercial hip hop is just skimming the surface...those are just singles they put out to sell listen to their albums the whole album..even some of these commercial mc's like jayz have incredible albums that have alot more meaning then u give credit for...even eminem albums if u listen to them and get the total meaning ull respect them more...just because they put out these singles abt guns hoes cash rims etc doesnt mean their whole album is like that...in this day and age thats what sells so they make a quick few singles throw it on their album to sell it and the rest of their songs are the real art work which most ppl never get to hear

Please try and use some punctuation and/or correct the grammar mistakes. I seriously have trouble reading your posts, and believe it or not, I wouldn't mind 'hearing' what you have to say

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