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-- Something to consider... all you X users -
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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 No doubt, your article on Nixon revealed one thing to me - Nixon was a douche bag. Are there any current models that support your assertion? Nixon was quite some time ago. I don't necessarily doubt your assertion, I'm just seeing if you have any links that parallel that situation 30 years ago.

The most recent thing was the ricaurte mdma study that was the backbone of the rave act. They had used methampthetamine instead of mdma.
This explains it:
http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/302/oops.shtml
And here is the study:
http://mdma.net/toxicity/ricaurte.html

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Not anger, more a mixture of frustration and pity.

Oh, you're not angry, just frustrated. My bad.

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This is just blind compliance. What ur saying is completely wrong, especially the government wanting real results part. U obviously dont know the researching law/rule in america. I dunno the exact thing is, but basically researchers are not allowed to find any positives about illegal drugs. Theyre not even allowed to TRY to.

That's not true and the evidence for it is in the very article you posted a couple of lines below. It shows scientists made a research in which they found out marijuana wasn't very harmful. Now, the fact that the state didn't act in accordance to that research is a totally different thing. But the state did fund that research.

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Do i really have to explain all this? It takes a very long time (ive had this conversation with prohibitionists loads of times) as its such a complicated issue. But basically, governments dont have the balls to legalise illegal drugs. For years they have been bullshitting about harmful effects of them, for many reasons. Do u think its likely that theyre just gonna turn round and admit how wrong theyve been? No chance. With the way theyve convinced many people, like urself, it would be a disaster for them. The first government to admit it would be fucked. Theyd lose far more votes than theyd gain. They would lose support from other governments and organisations.

It's not the government that convinced me, it's a load of scientific research on the matter that points in the same direction. Oh, no wait, that's all a government-funded conspiracy, how could I forget?

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Really? All those huge companies that profit from promoting illegal drugs, u mean? Name them.

No, Einstein, all those huge companies that profit from promoting false research. I didn't say it was necessarily drug-related. The point of the post is that the state research is usually more trustworthy than private sponsored one. I've also not stated that the huge companies are the only donators of money for the independent researchers. They can be funded from all kinds of sources, including the drug producers.

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Uv got it the wrong way round. Replace the word company with government. Heres an example of what im talking about. Its long but well worth the read: ...article...

Actually this article shows you have no idea what you're talking about. It clearly states that the government founded research agency concluded that the effects of marijuana aren't very harmful. It just shows that the heads of state often act in accordance with their personal beliefs rather than in accordance with the realistic situation. You could also say that the heads of state are trying to influence people by somewhat demonizing the consequences of drug abuse. That, however, has no relation to the research at hand, as the article was not a bunch of propaganda taken from a government anti-drug program homepage, but a research brought by an independent news source.

Now, as far as ecstasy causing genetic mutations, I don't see why that's so hard to believe. It's not turning people into mutants. Loads of things cause genetic mutations. Every cancer is a genetic mutation. And just think of how many things cause cancer.

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Btw, please quote me saying e is harmless.

Only if you'll quote me where I said you said that.

I find it so sad how people get SO damn defensive when propositioned with any negativity in reguards to E. I myself have delved into the world of E, loved it at first... and then found myself living out exactlty what my boyfriend had warned me about, I was in a dream world for 2 months, pushing friends,family and my boyfriend away testing all the limits of love that these people had for me.
I understand why people defend E ( or any other drug) I too was defensive when I was under its control. But now that (thank goodness)I have woken from the weird zombie-like state I look at it so differently. I AM NOT a prude, i have dropped again since, but this time it was different, the night wasnt about dropping, I was enjoying my friends and music...and with my old self back the night was completely different and more enjoyable.
I will never abuse E again, nor do I ever want to let something grab hold of me and control me. And as much as someone will indefinitely respond with " I dont let E control me, I have fun and use it resposibly, and it has only enlightened my life BLAH BLAH".... I am not putting any of you down, I just want everyone to take drugs for what they are. Don't ever underestimate them or their power. And don't act like researchers, or scientists, or know-it-alls because who are you to know exactly what E does? Why because u took it so many times?? Nobody is an expert, and remember that this drug is still fairly new without substantial research backing it up to tell you what exactly to be weary of. Be careful, & have fun

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Originally posted by Summer21 I find it so sad how people get SO damn defensive when propositioned with any negativity in reguards to E. I myself have delved into the world of E, loved it at first... and then found myself living out exactlty what my boyfriend had warned me about, I was in a dream world for 2 months, pushing friends,family and my boyfriend away testing all the limits of love that these people had for me. I understand why people defend E ( or any other drug) I too was defensive when I was under its control. But now that (thank goodness)I have woken from the weird zombie-like state I look at it so differently. I AM NOT a prude, i have dropped again since, but this time it was different, the night wasnt about dropping, I was enjoying my friends and music...and with my old self back the night was completely different and more enjoyable. I will never abuse E again, nor do I ever want to let something grab hold of me and control me. And as much as someone will indefinitely respond with " I dont let E control me, I have fun and use it resposibly, and it has only enlightened my life BLAH BLAH".... I am not putting any of you down, I just want everyone to take drugs for what they are. Don't ever underestimate them or their power. And don't act like researchers, or scientists, or know-it-alls because who are you to know exactly what E does? Why because u took it so many times?? Nobody is an expert, and remember that this drug is still fairly new without substantial research backing it up to tell you what exactly to be weary of. Be careful, & have fun

I don't believe any of this! You're probably some government agent that has inflitrated our ranks! We won't be opressed like this, man! Free drugs and love for everyone, you fascist, it's the 21st century, man!

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I don't believe any of this! You're probably some government agent that has inflitrated our ranks! We won't be opressed like this, man! Free drugs and love for everyone, you fascist, it's the 21st century, man!

It's Cheney's wife/girlfriend. What do ya expect?

A lot of funded "studies" are garbage. People get paid to find things, be it from he government or a private corporation. It is very simple: If the people that fund your research like your results, they will fund you again, otherwise they won't. So the researcher will conduct a study tailored to show certain results.

Science in ESSENCE is not bad, not is it corrupt, but the problem is that the results of these studies, even if done perfectly scientifically, is taken out of context.

I bet a study, giving rats 200g of vitamin C/ day will also show severe negative effects.
I am not here to say "drugs are good", but people need to realize that a lot of studies are done by people, who earn their money this way. There is a good incentive for them to set up their studies so that the results agree with the satus quo (which is the person funding them).

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Originally posted by drizzt81 A lot of funded "studies" are garbage. People get paid to find things, be it from he government or a private corporation. It is very simple: If the people that fund your research like your results, they will fund you again, otherwise they won't. So the researcher will conduct a study tailored to show certain results. Science in ESSENCE is not bad, not is it corrupt, but the problem is that the results of these studies, even if done perfectly scientifically, is taken out of context. I bet a study, giving rats 200g of vitamin C/ day will also show severe negative effects. I am not here to say "drugs are good", but people need to realize that a lot of studies are done by people, who earn their money this way. There is a good incentive for them to set up their studies so that the results agree with the satus quo (which is the person funding them).

its not the sciene that is "wrong" its the reporting.
that article doesn't say jack shit about the study. you can skew results anywhich way you want to make them look the way that people want them to be.
all the details of the study need to be given.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I don't believe any of this! You're probably some government agent that has inflitrated our ranks! We won't be opressed like this, man! Free drugs and love for everyone,

Free love and drugs???? I must put a stop to this immediately. We can call it the LOVE Act. Love Oppression through Violence against Everyone. Now to find a bill to tack it on ... preferablly something involving giving food to starving, orphaned, adorable children. Then perhaps a bill to allow corporate experimental testing on those children ... Exxxxccceelllent

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Oh, you're not angry, just frustrated. My bad.

Yep.

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That's not true and the evidence for it is in the very article you posted a couple of lines below. It shows scientists made a research in which they found out marijuana wasn't very harmful. Now, the fact that the state didn't act in accordance to that research is a totally different thing. But the state did fund that research.

Tell u what. Answer my post again bearing in mind that what i posted was talking about BEFORE the law was made.

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It's not the government that convinced me, it's a load of scientific research on the matter that points in the same direction. Oh, no wait, that's all a government-funded conspiracy, how could I forget?

Ok listen. From what ur saying, its clear that u dont really have much/any knowledge of the situation. Thats fine. This isnt a flame btw (id rather not start that, well get nowhere). I wasnt born knowing what i do now (and im NOT saying i know everything, far from it). That came from about 5 years of research, discussion and experience. Theres not much point in u arguing with me about this, because u wont win. U cant win. Thats because im right and ur wrong, simple as that. Ive been through this enough times with people and anything u can say, ive heard it before. I know all the angles, all the trickery etc that u prohibitionists usually come up with. U might as well go and do a bit of reading up on these researchers, and learn about who they are, who appointed them, where they came from etc. I suggest u start with the legendary gabriel nahas.

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No, Einstein, all those huge companies that profit from promoting false research.

Examples?

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I didn't say it was necessarily drug-related. The point of the post is that the state research is usually more trustworthy than private sponsored one.

Research involving (most) governments is definitely NOT reliable in the case of illegal drugs, especially america. If u werent talking about drug research then what ur saying is completely irrelevant.

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I've also not stated that the huge companies are the only donators of money for the independent researchers. They can be funded from all kinds of sources, including the drug producers.

Sources/evidence please.

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Actually this article shows you have no idea what you're talking about. It clearly states that the government founded research agency concluded that the effects of marijuana aren't very harmful.

As i said before: Answer my post again bearing in mind that what i posted was talking about BEFORE the law was made.

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It just shows that the heads of state often act in accordance with their personal beliefs rather than in accordance with the realistic situation. You could also say that the heads of state are trying to influence people by somewhat demonizing the consequences of drug abuse. That, however, has no relation to the research at hand, as the article was not a bunch of propaganda taken from a government anti-drug program homepage, but a research brought by an independent news source.

So? News reporters dont do the research. The source matters, not the messenger.

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Now, as far as ecstasy causing genetic mutations, I don't see why that's so hard to believe. It's not turning people into mutants. Loads of things cause genetic mutations. Every cancer is a genetic mutation. And just think of how many things cause cancer.

Well im not an expert on genetic mutations. I dont know if its true or not. But i doubt it is, and not just because of this specific claim, its because theres so much utter shite out there.

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Only if you'll quote me where I said you said that.

Well u sorta implied it.

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Originally posted by Summer21 I find it so sad how people get SO damn defensive when propositioned with any negativity in reguards to E.

Whos doing that? I myself have posted links that explain the damage e does.

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I myself have delved into the world of E, loved it at first... and then found myself living out exactlty what my boyfriend had warned me about, I was in a dream world for 2 months, pushing friends,family and my boyfriend away testing all the limits of love that these people had for me. I understand why people defend E ( or any other drug) I too was defensive when I was under its control. But now that (thank goodness)I have woken from the weird zombie-like state I look at it so differently.

U too? For ur info, i havnt taken e in 2 years.
And under its control?

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I AM NOT a prude, i have dropped again since, but this time it was different, the night wasnt about dropping, I was enjoying my friends and music...and with my old self back the night was completely different and more enjoyable. I will never abuse E again,

Well, u said it urself. U ABUSED it. What ur saying doesnt really make sense. U are the 1 at fault here, not the drug.

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nor do I ever want to let something grab hold of me and control me. And as much as someone will indefinitely respond with " I dont let E control me, I have fun and use it resposibly, and it has only enlightened my life BLAH BLAH".... I am not putting any of you down, I just want everyone to take drugs for what they are. Don't ever underestimate them or their power.

People who arent prepared to use drugs responsibly should not be using them at all.

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq That came from about 5 years of research, discussion and experience. Theres not much point in u arguing with me about this, because u wont win. U cant win. Thats because im right and ur wrong, simple as that. Ive been through this enough times with people and anything u can say, ive heard it before. I know all the angles, all the trickery etc that u prohibitionists usually come up with. U might as well go and do a bit of reading up on these researchers, and learn about who they are, who appointed them, where they came from etc. I suggest u start with the legendary gabriel nahas.

I smell pure bullshit. If you are telling the truth, then you don't need all that education to realize that these drugs have serious side effects, you can see that with your own eyes.

And to what gain does the government have to gain by putting out these studies, Professor? Only reason I can think of is that these drugs cost them money policing them, and that they reduce the country's quality-of-life. But that just implies what you are denying, the seriously negative health effects.

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Originally posted by jdjd I smell pure bullshit.

Ugh, so do i. U might wanna try using mouthwash for that or something.

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If you are telling the truth, then you don't need all that education to realize that these drugs have serious side effects, you can see that with your own eyes.

What, like cannabis making people turn into murderers, white women sleep with black men , mdma putting holes in ur brain, lsd making u jump out windows or cut ur dick off etc?

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And to what gain does the government have to gain by putting out these studies, Professor?

Sigh.. Thats a complex 1. There are just too many reasons for me to bother explaining it all. I wrote a whole 5 a4 pages essay on this a couple of years ago for my english gcse coursework in school. Racism was a big part of it in the early days. They started cracking down on different drugs to piss off/control in various ways different cultures. Cannabis for the mexicans and black jazz musicians (they said cannabis influenced this 'evil jazz music'), cocaine for the asians flooding the workplace (iirc, its been a while since i went over all this) etc. It just got progressivly worse from there. Do a google search for harry anslinger (theres PLENTY of info on that wanker) and reefer madness.
More recently, reasons include not wanting to 'rock the boat' for, or in some cases put out of business pharmaceutical companies, tobacco and alcohol companies (budweiser apparently 'donate' a lot of money towards the war on (some) drugs), textile companies, paper companies etc. People would lose a LOT of money if legalisation happened, because illegal drugs could replace so many things and do their jobs even better. But the main reasons, like i said earlier, are political. Because so many people now are so convinced by the bs, its not exactly easy for any government to turn round and say to the public that theyve been lied to for so long. Because of the huge amount of this bs, and how long its been going on, they know how many people wouldnt believe them, just like u dont believe me, and they would lose many votes. They would lose global support basically. And that means from companies, countries, other parties and governments, organisations etc. So it would be political suicide.

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Only reason I can think of is that these drugs cost them money policing them, and that they reduce the country's quality-of-life. But that just implies what you are denying, the seriously negative health effects.

These effects are usually greatly exaggerated, for the above reasons. I can tell u that u take more risks going about ur normal daily life than almost all drug users do taking drugs.

Fuck drugs. Never did any, and never will.

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Originally posted by mto Fuck drugs. Never did any, and never will.

Like fuck u havnt. Everyone has taken drugs.

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Like fuck u havnt. Everyone has taken drugs.

I never consumed any type of drugs in my life. Weed, X, Speed, Shrooms.. nothing. It never attracted me. I also never hung around the people who did any of that stuff, and I still don't.

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Originally posted by mto I never consumed any type of drugs in my life. Weed, X, Speed, Shrooms.. nothing. It never attracted me. I also never hung around the people who did any of that stuff, and I still don't.

Dont u know that alcohol and nicotine are drugs, just like any other drugs? If u dont, then dont even bother talking about drugs, because u havnt got a clue.
What about chocolate? U know thats a drug? Ever ate any? U ever drink coke, tea or coffee? Do u know that they all contain an addictive drug? Ever taken a painkiller or medication? Theyre drugs too.

why are the police trying to stop raves? its not because of anything EXCEPT for the fact that people want to keep doing drugs. MY RIGHT TO GO PARTYING is now in jeopardy because of something i don't even do. The government has to change for you? it all has to revolve around people who don't know how to appreaciate a smile and find solace , and eventualy will never do with all the muscles deteriorated. I cant go partying because YOU idiots want to go "ooooooo" "look at the colors" "purple is a fruit". forget it. if these electronic get togethers are going to be illegal, i'll be fucking glad that our scene will go back to the music and not the requirement of being some dumbfuck drugged up raver


when does american idol part 3 start showing?

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Dont u know that alcohol and nicotine are drugs, just like any other drugs? If u dont, then dont even bother talking about drugs, because u havnt got a clue. What about chocolate? U know thats a drug? Ever ate any? U ever drink coke, tea or coffee? Do u know that they all contain an addictive drug? Ever taken a painkiller or medication? Theyre drugs too.

We're talking about illegal drugs. But now you're gonna contradict that one too by saying that marijuana is legel in some countries/states.

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Like fuck u havnt. Everyone has taken drugs.

I think he is referring to drugs which are currently prohibited by law.

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Originally posted by zarathustra I think he is referring to drugs which are currently prohibited by law.

I was.

alcohol? when was the last time u saw Tom Brokaw talking about alchohol in the rave scene. it's always been about ectstasy

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Originally posted by mto I never consumed any type of drugs in my life. Weed, X, Speed, Shrooms.. nothing. It never attracted me. I also never hung around the people who did any of that stuff, and I still don't.

Here's a big chocolate chip cookie just for you!

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Originally posted by djSlain alcohol? when was the last time u saw Tom Brokaw talking about alchohol in the rave scene. it's always been about ectstasy

I don't care what its been about in the eyes of others. In my eyes its always been about going out and meeting new people, and enjoying the music. People tend to use X, or any other type of drugs, within the club enviroment because they get so caught up in the frenzy. Lights are flashing, hundreds of people around, great music, beautiful girls.. I think I'll eat a bean, 'cause I'm the shit. If you wanna relax or something, drink a bit of alcohol its a legal way to go. Don't drink too much though, 'cause you wanna be able to move on that dance floor and hear the set. This is all my opinion, don't really care how you guys feel about drugs. X is illegal because it screws you up, nothing good about it. I saw a guy drop in a middle of the floor first time he consumed a bean. He survived though, thank God.

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Originally posted by mto We're talking about illegal drugs.

Ur acting like theres some huge differce in legal and illegal drugs. As if legal drugs arent drugs at all. Thats my point. Its annoying when ignorant people do that. Saying fuck drugs, and that theyre for losers when u take far more dangerous drugs urself, makes u look like a prick.

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Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Ur acting like theres some huge differce in legal and illegal drugs. As if legal drugs arent drugs at all. Thats my point. Its annoying when ignorant people do that. Saying fuck drugs, and that theyre for losers when u take far more dangerous drugs urself, makes u look like a prick.

Okay Fuq.

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