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-- What is one Israeli life worth?
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Originally posted by borron I want to clear something up - i do not endorse, support or think suicide bombings are right in any way - i just think they are a cause of something. What is not easy to determine, but as i've said before, i have a clue on that. But now i'm really repeating myself.

If you want to really question your beliefs and see how they hold up to real arguments I urge you to put them to the truest form of test - read a book.

Read a scholarly book from the otherside, and see how your arguments stand against it.

I would recommend to you "The Case for Israel", as it is easy to read, and you can skip through the chapters to get the arguments against claims you want to hear, for instance skip to chapter 18 and find out "Why Have More Palestinians Than Israelis Been Killed?";

Here is a link for the table of contents:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8847232-0040408

You can of course chose other books, and I will encourage you to do so, but if you read one, read it from the opposing point of view, and than if you get your interest stirred see what the othersides says and go back and forth...

But if you are really eager to learn something about this topic, you are not going to find it here in an online trance forum. Books have been the best way to learn about any given issue for hundreds of years that, and I still believe they are more invaluable than any forum debate.

Thanks for the info.
I usually do that, reading from the opposite side, but just in the internet. Unfortunately nowadays i pretty much don't read books, as i have little time for them. Except for this week, i'm having the worst cold in my life, sitting at home doing nothing, turned upside down...

quote:

Originally posted by borron Thanks for the info. I usually do that, reading from the opposite side, but just in the internet. Unfortunately nowadays i pretty much don't read books, as i have little time for them. Except for this week, i'm having the worst cold in my life, sitting at home doing nothing, turned upside down...

Ya I know... I used to do the same, than I got back into books (I'm sure Amazon.com is REALLY happy) you find out that the net as good as it is, just doesn't come close to the library and literatue found in books and real journals, its like kindergarten in comparison.

I find out that the net tends to flat out lie more than books do, and that they tend to omit much more than books do as well.

So ya, know I'm like a nerd, and try and read at least a chapter a day, its not to hard if the book is good. Books are just like movies though - most sux, but then there are a few of those really good ones that blow your mind.

Oh and sorry to hear about the cold, hope you get well soon.. but go make the of it while you can

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You are wrong here. My sister doesnt even look middle eastern and she was stopped becuase they found out she was part iranian in decent. Weve lived in Canada our whole lives. Why was she interrogated by Americans? Becuase of her race...the region where she came from was NORTH AMERICA.

So if she doesn't look middle eastern, then it was not racial profiling, right?

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Originally posted by DigiNut In fact, one would logically conclude that the average person growing up in such a situation would be very docile and tame.

i don't expect you to know this because you're not Arab, but it's in the Arab and quite frankly even in the Turkish nature to not back down. People from this region are generally very stubborn, and when you mix stubborness with extremism, this is what you get.

secondly, stop telling people to get back on subject. are you paying for server space? no. so why does it matter to you if epople have side conversations? it's not your job to respond to every post, so just ignore what you don't want to talk about, and stop whining yourself for a change.

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 secondly, stop telling people to get back on subject. are you paying for server space? no. so why does it matter to you if epople have side conversations? it's not your job to respond to every post, so just ignore what you don't want to talk about, and stop whining yourself for a change.

Oh I see, but when Cyrus King posted a full page of THISHASNOTHINGTODOWITHTHETHREAD in response to VanFleet's irrelevant posts in his thread, that was okay and somehow different?

Interesting double standard you've set. Not surprising, mind you.

(To be perfectly clear, I'm not attacking Cyrus King's response in that thread - just defending mine in this one).

it's good to be a spectator of a flame for once, i hope your proud of me yoepus

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Oh I see, but when Cyrus King posted a full page of THISHASNOTHINGTODOWITHTHETHREAD in response to VanFleet's irrelevant posts in his thread, that was okay and somehow different? Interesting double standard you've set. Not surprising, mind you. (To be perfectly clear, I'm not attacking Cyrus King's response in that thread - just defending mine in this one).

i really don't care about what cyrus does. how about you stop taking the spotlight off yourself? i didn't know about cyrus's actions in other threads. and anyway, did you start this thread? why are you acting like it's hurting you in a personal way? and i'm not trying to set any double standards, if you thought that i was trying to defend cyrus or whatever, you totally misconstrued my intentions. Not surprising, mind you.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 So if she doesn't look middle eastern, then it was not racial profiling, right?

When they found out she was Iranian... they questioned her....even though she whas been living in Canada all her life.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King When they found out she was Iranian... they questioned her....even though she whas been living in Canada all her life.

Well, then that's profiling based on nationality, not race.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, then that's profiling based on nationality, not race.

Her nationality is Canadian. Her race is Iranian. There is only one nation that represents the persian race, and that is Iran.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Her nationality is Canadian. Her race is Iranian. There is only one nation that represents the persian race, and that is Iran.

But you said she doesn't look middle-eastern. So if they found out she was Iranian by descent, wouldn't that mean that they'd already started to question her before finding that out? I mean, I *do* look middle-eastern, but I've never been questioned about my descent?

its not that hard to understand people.

They found out her parents were IRanian, so they proceeded to question her and make her miss her flight.

She may not look it, but once they found middle eastern blood running through her veins, they had to know more about her.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King its not that hard to understand people. They found out her parents were IRanian, so they proceeded to question her and make her miss her flight. She may not look it, but once they found middle eastern blood running through her veins, they had to know more about her.

Yes, but in order to find out that her parents were Iranian, they must have already been questioning/looking up information on her, no?

I've never been asked about my parents at a border. You're assuming that they questioned her because her parents were Iranian but I'm saying that they would have already had to have pre-existing motivation to question her in order to find that out...

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Yes, but in order to find out that her parents were Iranian, they must have already been questioning/looking up information on her, no? I've never been asked about my parents at a border. You're assuming that they questioned her because her parents were Iranian but I'm saying that they would have already had to have pre-existing motivation to question her in order to find that out...

The guy was an asshole. I dont know what he was looking for, but he certainly wanted to bother her once he found out her ethnic origin.

Some of these people are just Nosey and think they can ask any questions they want. Youd be surprised.

Ive never been pulled over at the border either, but im sure if i got an asshole like the one my sister did, i would have trouble too.

The point im trying to make is that they racially profile. If you are middle eastern in decent, and you were born in North AMmerica, you are still going to have problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Her nationality is Canadian. Her race is Iranian. There is only one nation that represents the persian race, and that is Iran.

Just a sidenote because I am curious. Did Persia also include Afghanistan? I am saying this because I have an Afghani friend who we casually refer to as Persian sometimes but I always thought we were being grossly inaccurate.

quote:

Originally posted by razmataz Just a sidenote because I am curious. Did Persia also include Afghanistan? I am saying this because I have an Afghani friend who we casually refer to as Persian sometimes but I always thought we were being grossly inaccurate.

Afghans are not persian. But the empire might have stretched around that area hundreds of years ago.

Many afghans here is Toronto claim to be persian, but they are wrong.

Apperantly 500+ US lives and tens of thousands injured are worth it

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