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you know where you are headed for....

so quit while you are ahead.

i have nothing else to say

the master look at my post on the last page fellow colombiano

"YAY! FREE TECHNO HISTORY LESSONS!" *exclaims excitedly*

I think I'll just watch. Or listen, as the case may be with music.

quote:

Originally posted by Electronicmaji the master look at my post on the last page fellow colombiano

paisano!!! hermano del alma vamos a clasificar!!!!

pm me if you have questions.....i'll try my best to answer them or take a page out of the colombian fuckup the master....ask yaletrance. If it is detroit techno tho..ask me....or ask both of us....lol.

we really need some trance history and disco history unless you want me to beleive that trance started in california as some african stuff

quote:

Originally posted by Electronicmaji we really need some trance history and disco history unless you want me to beleive that trance started in california as some african stuff

it didn't?

disco history is long and complicated....one day I will write the history of it...lol...it leads to house. Tho the disco history is funny because most house legends had BIG drug problems (some are dead as a result). Trance branched off from hardcore really

or maybe I should just tell the good stories about the drug addicted house legends.

quote:

Originally posted by armandzadza Aren't all genre definitions subjective? Last I checked, there was no International Commissions of Musical Genres that issues official opinions on what particular genre a track belongs to. As for Breaks/Jungle, I group them together, because of they don't use the regular 4/4 beat, as virtually all other EDM genres do. Feel free to agree or disagree.

silly junior ta

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian "YAY! FREE TECHNO HISTORY LESSONS!" *exclaims excitedly* I think I'll just watch. Or listen, as the case may be with music.

um, techno? I HATE PEOPLE THAT CALL EVERYTHING TECHNO

quote:

Originally posted by mndeg um, techno? I HATE PEOPLE THAT CALL EVERYTHING TECHNO

A semi-joke. Hence the smile.

I'll comment in the other thread too.

really...its good to know where things are coming from, but this is ridiculous...

who cares if trance came from this form of house or hardcore...we all like to listen to it yes? then why don't we stop the fighting, put on some badass tunes and enjoy...


well...you guys can keep fighting if its REALLY that important, but that's what i'm gonna do hehehe...

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance yes...this means someone should take the fucking idea and say shit..let's start a edm guide..unbiased.

I am working on it.... but I reckon that this is the sort of thing that, if done by too many people, will never be done because there will always be some disagreements, as genre division is highly subjective. And yes, it is taking long but that's because I am really putting effort in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I am working on it.... but I reckon that this is the sort of thing that, if done by too many people, will never be done because there will always be some disagreements, as genre division is highly subjective. And yes, it is taking long but that's because I am really putting effort in it.

Yay Maaz! It will be refreshing to have an alternative out there to Ishkur's. He can say there are "other objective guides" all he wants, but the truth is that nothing out there is nearly as comprehensive as his, which results in much hand-wringing and frustration.

Give people the information, and leave it to them to make their own decisions. Maybe they will care... maybe not... but at least you know you shared some of your experiences .

Ishkur's a funny guy. Very funny. I laugh when some people take his guide as 100% literal, especially with all the ads and disclaimers he has posted all over his website. The guide is a gem and I wish there was an easier way to download the current version of it for edutainment purposes.

But like Cobalt said... it's true... and to add, more EDM journalists who aren't overly unfriendly and use too many big words and obscure references -- scaring away the newbies! -- would help! After all, who's going to be looking at these guides? The old and new alike. It has to, IMHO, have accessible entry points which branch out into deeper explanations if one so desires... DEFINITELY not a problem if we're using electronic methods like hypertext and multimedia to deliver the content.

---> AUDIO EXAMPLES A MUST!!!

One thing about Ishkur's guide is that it isn't big on text, but it lets you hear the music for what it really is. No substitute for that.


"Trance For Dummies", anyone ? (and no, as anyone who has read those popular books knows, the name is not meant to be demeaning but rather, tongue-in-cheek...)

Oh yeah, one more suggestion: It would be tres cool to have an interactive interface where you can drag and drop various adjectives into an on-screen box or sort of a "DNA splitter" audio lab. For example, you can click and drag on the words "techno" and "trance" and pull them into the middle of the screen, and a few seconds later there'll be a cute but convenient animation revealing some streaming samples of "tech-trance" tracks. Maybe a "shader" bar too with a gradient on it so one can hear the difference between "uplifting" and "dark" trance, maybe beatmixed smoothly as you drag the shader

Maybe make it open source or open to contributors so it can branch out even wider over time, like EDM itself. I have a feeling like any good reference text, this needs to be done by many people -- democratically and systematically yet with a certain degree of flirtatious and messy fun (as it is a work in progress). Obviously, key essays might be a plus... as well as a number of panelists, answering in their informed opinions, the answers to FAQs and unFAQs such as:


-What's the difference between house and techno?
-Is vocal trance really trance or pop?
-Why do I sometimes see "BPM" next to a style?
-Drum 'n' bass and jungle? Is there really a difference?
-Why is some of this music called "progressive"? Is there a "regressive"?
-Is it true if you speed up hip-hop by a factor of two, you get drum 'n' bass?
-For that matter, is hip-hop considered electronic dance music?
-How is a "trance anthem" defined?
-Ugh, I don't get minimal techno! Is there a key to appreciating this?
-Why does a DJ wear headphones? The music's so loud already!
-Is it true if you push a button on a computer, it will make all the music for you?
-Definition of "cheese"?
-What are some tracks representative of "bluegrass breaks" blending phat analogue basslines and acoustic guitar fingerstyles?
-Why does techno music sound all the same?
-Why are most people I know who like techno so snobby? I thought they were supposed to be happy ravers? (obviously kidding, but I have heard this question for *real*)
-Is PLUR(R) dead?


No doubt we could glean info from past TA threads. And obviously some of this has already been covered well on other general reference sites and we should start with core essentials . . . . . but just saying a few ideas

The answers don't have to be definitive and an end-all to all answers but they SHOULD be thought-provoking, non-condescending, and encourage further discussion.

We can all learn something from this while educating.

Good vibes, good times.

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian Give people the information, and leave it to them to make their own decisions. Maybe they will care... maybe not... but at least you know you shared some of your experiences

This is the reason why my guide is taking me so long. I'm looking for something entertaining (so noobs will enjoy it) and as neutral (so elitists won't complain about it) as possible. I need to choose how to explore the genres and this sort of stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian Oh yeah, one more suggestion: It would be tres cool to have an interactive interface where you can drag and drop various adjectives into an on-screen box or sort of a "DNA splitter" audio lab. For example, you can click and drag on the words "techno" and "trance" and pull them into the middle of the screen, and a few seconds later there'll be a cute but convenient animation revealing some streaming samples of "tech-trance" tracks. Maybe a "shader" bar too with a gradient on it so one can hear the difference between "uplifting" and "dark" trance, maybe beatmixed smoothly as you drag the shader

Indeed, but I'm doing something that can be used by 56k'ers or people with bad connection. It's a music guide after all, and the guide can't have more emphasis than the music itself. I'm working on something as simple and as user-friendly as possible.

As for the sound samples, I've got 350 already

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian Maybe make it open source or open to contributors so it can branch out even wider over time, like EDM itself.

I'm seriously thinking of having a message board attached somewhere to the guide, but I reckon there's no way for this to work if it were IN the guide, as people will always have different points of view.

Answering your questions, so you can know what my way of thinking is:

-What's the difference between house and techno?

This is a very long answer, but if you're satisfied with a simple one: "House is to heart what techno is to mind".

-Is vocal trance really trance or pop?

Yet another long answer, but due to the post-prog houseification of trance, I'd say it's the rebirth of old eurodance, being a blend of house, trance and pop.

-Why do I sometimes see "BPM" next to a style?

Beats per minute

-Drum 'n' bass and jungle? Is there really a difference?

Yes, there's a difference, jungle being precursor to drum'n'bass. I'll explain it as soon as I get the time.

-Why is some of this music called "progressive"? Is there a "regressive"?

Yes, there is, and I'll give a proper answer as soon as I have the time.

-Is it true if you speed up hip-hop by a factor of two, you get drum 'n' bass?

Sort of.. once again, a proper answer is to come

-For that matter, is hip-hop considered electronic dance music?

Aye.

-Ugh, I don't get minimal techno! Is there a key to appreciating this?

Yes

-Is it true if you push a button on a computer, it will make all the music for you?

Yes

-Definition of "cheese"?

Music not liked by elitists, or something that is trying to hard to be what it isn't.

-What are some tracks representative of "bluegrass breaks" blending phat analogue basslines and acoustic guitar fingerstyles?

Now I am curious.... what the heck is bluegrass breaks?!

-Why does techno music sound all the same?

Because I once heard a tune that was like tum tum tum tum tum, and then there were these high pitched snares and a voice saying "the system is down"

-Why are most people I know who like techno so snobby? I thought they were supposed to be happy ravers? (obviously kidding, but I have heard this question for *real*)

Yes, there are many snobby techno heads (as well as pretty much all other genres), this is a social phenomena that can be explained, and I will explain it when I come with all the other answers.

-Is PLUR(R) dead?

This acronym is just a fad from West Coast ravers, really.

--------------
Here's an old draft of what I'm working on, with some explanations
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75077&highlight=literally

This thread is bumped every 3 months, I guess

I look forward to your guide, Lira!!! (nice answers!)

Make sure to make a big announcement on here.

*excited look*





P.S. Strongbad rulez

Torontotrance, you really should shut up with your elitist bullshit. As for everyone else, what is so bad about being able to clearly tell what you're listening to? Trance is a massive genre, and defining it more clearly is no bad thing. That's the point of Ishkur's guide.

Do we even care?

I for one dont, this is just another way of giving another trip to the ego-lovers out there who will argue like sin till hell or high water whose more right about the subject

As long as the musics good and gets me dancing i dont care what genre its from and to be quite honest im not particulary interested

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J As for everyone else, what is so bad about being able to clearly tell what you're listening to? Trance is a massive genre, and defining it more clearly is no bad thing. That's the point of Ishkur's guide.

there is nothing wrong with it, but it becomes a little absurd when you start to label things like:

Dutch Trance
Beach Trance
Ibiza Trance
Club Trance
Car Trance
Euro Trance
Euro-Pop Trance

well...now i made some of those up, but hopefully its clear what is stupid about taking genre labelling too seriously...and if you can't see it...well...nevermind

Great job Maaz, keep it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira -Definition of "cheese"? Music not liked by elitists, or something that is trying to hard to be what it isn't.

I think the meaning of "cheese" goes deeper if you look for its etymological roots. I think it's very related to an overly European melodic sound, with no funk or spice.

Just like 'kitsch' was consciously appropiated by 'camp' in the 1970s and 1980s, I think eurodance and Dutch trance from the late nineties appropiated a cheesy sound and gave it some class. There's no denying that the melodic lead from, say Out of the Blue, is extremely cheesy. Same goes for pretty much any Dutch or German or Italian or Belgian or British trance anthem from 1998 to the present. Cheese doesn't mean it's of bad quality, it just means it has a simple, unfunky melody. Nu NRG is Italian cheese, PvD is German cheese, Ferry is Dutch cheese, Solar Stone is British cheese etc.

HAHA... good one, "kitsch"!

Or... my current favorite:

TCHOTCHKE!

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